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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Wutangrza View Post
    Well, the link was more the supporting evidence I was trying to offer. I got a rank 1 US parse with it, so it's not like it's just "not viable outside of M+."

    At the end of the day, practical fights aren't equivalent to sims, though obviously sims are useful. In a sim, you waste zero of the HP generated by Liadrin's, but in practice you're probably missing 2-3 per crusade. That, combined with the fact that it only sims 1% higher, also combined with the added utility of

    1. Instant heals for yourself for 1m+ with JV procs (super useful on progression)

    2. Fast stacking Crusade occasionally (if your first TV procs and you JV you're instantly at 9 stacks, and the faster you can stack crusade the better).

    3. 2.5m free raid heals with WoG if you choose to spec that (super useful on progression, spirit realm Mythic Desolate Host as an example).

    Basically, I look at Liadrin's like I look at the cloak. Both are going to perform at least slightly worse in practice than in sims if you're simming 0 ms ping and 100% player skill because with the cloak you're going to miss a few TV's with the buff by like 0.1s, and with Liadrin's you're going to waste a few HP per crusade. It's impossible to "waste" a DP proc, you just keep firing.
    I'm in total agreement. Besides it beeing bigger DPS if you can add more targets to the fight. The ability to shoot more DS's while those targets are alive, makes it come ahead. There aren't many pure ST fights.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Wutangrza View Post
    I'm 5/9 mythic and use the ring, so not sure that I agree with you there. It sims 1% below Liadrin's for me, but being able to heal myself to full in a global with TV, or raid heal with a WoG, or dump a TV or two at low crusade stacks to stack fast, or get some lucky procs when adds spawn and spam DS makes it feel pretty worth.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...=1&subregion=1

    ^It can't be all that bad.

    edit: The downside of Liadrin's is that a few of those HP will almost certainly be wasted. Similarly with the cloak, there'll be plenty of times you miss the buff by 0.1 seconds. It's impossible to "waste" a DP proc though". The only thing Liadrin's has going for it is an amazing stat line.
    One of the most interesting things here, at least for me, is your parse was in the 99th percentile, yet you were beaten by an arms warrior who parsed at 82%.

    Class balance yo.

    All that being said its nice to see the Ring getting some use I got excited when I first saw it then started seeing the sims and got a little discouraged.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalamian View Post
    One of the most interesting things here, at least for me, is your parse was in the 99th percentile, yet you were beaten by an arms warrior who parsed at 82%.

    Class balance yo.

    All that being said its nice to see the Ring getting some use I got excited when I first saw it then started seeing the sims and got a little discouraged.
    Sisters is apparently my fight: Got rank 1 world tonight on heroic and was also using Soul, though I forgot to equip my specters

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ec=Retribution

    Didn't really do anything special other than someone died during a hero'd crusade with old war lol.

  4. #284
    It all depends on Setup. Liadrin is stronger if you have BIS relicts and CoF and vice versa.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Wutangrza View Post
    Sisters is apparently my fight: Got rank 1 world tonight on heroic and was also using Soul, though I forgot to equip my specters

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ec=Retribution

    Didn't really do anything special other than someone died during a hero'd crusade with old war lol.
    Wow that's the dream right there, hopefully it wasn't anybody important

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalamian View Post
    Wow that's the dream right there, hopefully it wasn't anybody important
    My guild has made the joke that we usually bring along a "sacrifice" for me I'm really wanting to get this ring just to try it out

  7. #287
    So I got soul finally (yay me!) and I am thinking of using it with belt. Should I pick JV? I really wonder if JV would be worth using on stunned adds on DP procs over an extra DS.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    So I got soul finally (yay me!) and I am thinking of using it with belt. Should I pick JV? I really wonder if JV would be worth using on stunned adds on DP procs over an extra DS.
    Even using JV just with DP procs could only help you really, because Eye for an Eye doesn't have as much use as it did in NH and Word of Glory is okayish but not much of a loss. JV is a decent self-heal and on the chance you get a DP proc at the beginning of crusade, doesn't hurt to have that faster stacking. Not sure on JV vs DS though.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Even using JV just with DP procs could only help you really, because Eye for an Eye doesn't have as much use as it did in NH and Word of Glory is okayish but not much of a loss. JV is a decent self-heal and on the chance you get a DP proc at the beginning of crusade, doesn't hurt to have that faster stacking.
    I rarely need the self heals tbh and I am fairly certain TV does more damage. Only if you get it as a proc in the first 5 seconds of Crusade I guess. I was more specific about situations like the Ichors in Desolate host; I can hit a stunned mob for double JC damage but that means not using a DS that could hit 5+ targets. I assume the DS is still more damage.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I rarely need the self heals tbh and I am fairly certain TV does more damage. Only if you get it as a proc in the first 5 seconds of Crusade I guess. I was more specific about situations like the Ichors in Desolate host; I can hit a stunned mob for double JC damage but that means not using a DS that could hit 5+ targets. I assume the DS is still more damage.
    JV and TV do about the same damage, unless you're using TV relics or Whisper. Divine Storm is still more damage at 4+ targets even with a stunned mob iirc. But if it's 3 or less targets being hit, I'm pretty sure JV will win out on a stunned mob. That's assuming you're using it with a DP proc though.

  11. #291
    JV hits for about 10% less than a TV because it doesn't echo, but it's still worth using with DP procs if it's early on in crusade, or if you need the heals (definitely doesn't hurt in mythic progression)

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    JV and TV do about the same damage, unless you're using TV relics or Whisper. Divine Storm is still more damage at 4+ targets even with a stunned mob iirc. But if it's 3 or less targets being hit, I'm pretty sure JV will win out on a stunned mob. That's assuming you're using it with a DP proc though.
    Wrong. JV does less damage. Final Verdict, Echo Golden Trait do not affect it.

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Calimon-ZJ View Post
    Wrong. JV does less damage. Final Verdict, Echo Golden Trait do not affect it.
    You feel satisfied with that post? The "wrong" is exagerated. JV does a tiny bit less damage. It's pretty much the same, outside the echo. The guy even said "about the same damage". It's worth using to get 5 stacks with DP procs.
    Last edited by Nemmar; 2017-07-15 at 01:25 AM.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Calimon-ZJ View Post
    Wrong. JV does less damage. Final Verdict, Echo Golden Trait do not affect it.
    Well, you seem to have come to get rekt so, this is why I said "about the same damage"

    Oh look, JV does MORE damage not including Whisper or TV relics? What is this sorcery? It's the natural variance of different gear lol. Weapon damage and strength are different between players. They're still pretty close to each other, but looks like you were Wrong about it necessarily being lower :^)

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Well, you seem to have come to get rekt so, this is why I said "about the same damage"

    Oh look, JV does MORE damage not including Whisper or TV relics? What is this sorcery? It's the natural variance of different gear lol. Weapon damage and strength are different between players. They're still pretty close to each other, but looks like you were Wrong about it necessarily being lower :^)
    No. it does not echo with one of our golden traits. which means it does noticeably less damage. You're still very wrong. As usual.
    Last edited by Calimon-ZJ; 2017-07-15 at 04:50 AM.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Calimon-ZJ View Post
    No. it does not echo with one of our golden traits. which means it does noticeably less damage. You're still very wrong. As usual.
    I guess you were right, but it's not that much lower. I was referring to TV and JV by themselves, not echos.
    Last edited by Reith; 2017-07-15 at 06:09 AM.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    I guess you were right, but it's not that much lower. I was referring to TV and JV by themselves, not echos.
    that is a rather useless comparision though seeing as unless you are still leveling you will have echos and should factor that in.

  18. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by maaghen View Post
    that is a rather useless comparision though seeing as unless you are still leveling you will have echos and should factor that in.
    Not to mention Echo also benefits from Crusade, furthering the disparity in damage between justicars weaksauce heal and TV.
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  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    Not to mention Echo also benefits from Crusade, furthering the disparity in damage between justicars weaksauce heal and TV.
    It's still just 10% less. If you throw a 2m TV you get a 200k echo, so 2.2m. If you throw a 2m JV and no echo, you just did 2m, or 10% less.

    You obviously shouldn't spend every DP proc on JV, but doing 10% less damage on one global to gain 2 extra Crusade stacks early or healing yourself to full (if needed) is a good trade.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Wutangrza View Post
    It's still just 10% less. If you throw a 2m TV you get a 200k echo, so 2.2m. If you throw a 2m JV and no echo, you just did 2m, or 10% less.

    You obviously shouldn't spend every DP proc on JV, but doing 10% less damage on one global to gain 2 extra Crusade stacks early or healing yourself to full (if needed) is a good trade.
    Speaking of the differences between finishers, It'd make sense if they buffed Execution Sentence enough that it sufficiently rewards the slightly more complicated gameplay. Justicar's Vengeance kinda needs a buff too, tbh. Ideally, all the finishers would scale, but traits and echos don't affect the talented finishers at all, which seems like a bit of an oversight at this point.

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