1. #2181
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    More stupid than warp drive?
    Yes. Because there was not as much focus through a single season on warp drives and a quasi-metaphysical analog of the "muscles and veins of the universe!" for the purpose of storytelling. Plausibility is irrelevant; drama is the goal. As a source of drama, I find the spore engine eye-rolling.
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  2. #2182
    Quote Originally Posted by Ara Myrr View Post
    See, that's one of the problems this show has.

    It takes no time to explain things beyond the minimum needed to move the plot along.

    Even if the technobabble has no real value in RL terms it can give viewers a sense of understanding of how and why it happened.

    In the older series this was often presented in the sense of "This works the way it does, because... [insert technobabbly here]

    Discovery often opts for the minimal for the sake of moving it all along and only goes "Because."

    Talking, even if it's nonsensical gibberish can be just as enjoyable to watch if presented well then just another action scene.

    Carl & Kovich are probably my favourite characters this season because of that, they just talk. Everyone else (barring Saru, and Vance to a lesser extent) has an intensity to them, like they're in a constant hurry to get somewhere.
    yep, the biggest problem Discovery always have. EVERYTHING is always rushed. always.

    everyone is actively driven by x. everyone is on the way from a to b. everything is always just touched by a tiny bit, because „no time“ ! no time for explanations, no time for technobabble, no time to create deepness, no time for relationships, no time for nerd stuff, no time for small talk. EVERYTHING is always on the way. always.

    in the end, every season (even when i really liked them all) had that bad taste of „rushed“ after it was over.

    this would be my top priority, for a 4th season.

  3. #2183
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    There are many things it coudl have been about.. do they have a singular focus or multiple?

    And the technology, what should be it's big thing? We have this transietn matter.

    I'd like to know about all the new tech things they use. What happened to things like the Omega molecule in the 32nd century? Surely we've only had a partial glimpse of the advancements of the Alpha quadrant.

    Did they forget other 24th century improvements and techs from the other shows? Transwarp for example, didn't that not use dilithium, it probably needed dilithium?

    I thought htey'd be more expanse liek with huge interstellar gateways.

    What about those aliens from TNG that discovered how to reach worlds great distances apart with gateways? Surely they'd have figured out that tech by then.
    Well when I say it should have been entirely mirror universe I mean the characters and everything should have been from the mirror universe and we should have never seen "our" universe. Then they could have been these more antihero like characters and more people would root for them. They would also have less lore to follow and would have less likely fucked up as much stuff. Sure we would know everything "good" they do eventually is for naught but they could have made their mark on the mirror universe or possibly help change it for the better if they also did a time travel jump there too.

    The problem with technology and stuff in Discovery and Picard is they don't really think anything out nor care about the future of the universe by creating it like the teleporters in Picard. If they have been able to create the crazy teleporters by Picard they most certainly should have been able to create super ship teleporting teleporters by the time of the burn and if they haven super teleporters they dont need to worry about "slow" ships. And if its a range thing just build a teleportation network. Also considering at this time they were so advanced kids had time travel tech in school they shouldn't have a problem with range. And if it needed massive powersources like Antimatter/matter warp cores then Earth and likely most of the planets in the Federation should have been completely eradicated during the burn as well.



    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    Time travel is very Trek. Kid getting genetically linked to a planet screaming and blowing up all the other rocks in the galaxy was a first. I mean even the connection you tried to make didn't connect... like.. where are you taking it?
    It's not even how utterly ridiculous the situation is that's the problem imo even though everyone and their mother mine dilithium and something like this should have occurred sooner given the fact you aren't constantly leaving a planet if your mining it and some species use slaves to mine dilithium plus that are different types of Dilithium have been shown to exist and so even if a magical mutant baby cry could wipe out Dilithium it should have only been that "type" of it. It's the fact that they took what would just be some stupid cringe episode that everyone laughs at in any other star trek series and turned it into a universal altering event.

  4. #2184
    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    Warp drive has some science behind it (which is why you probably dislike it) and restrictions...and once again you prove to me you'll say anything just to trash Star Trek to support NuTrek
    No need to get bitter. I neither like nor dislike warp drive, i'm not going to get hung up on whether one unrealistic piece of fiction is less realistic than another unrealistic piece of fiction.

    The entire premise of Star Trek in almost every way shape and form is incredibly unrealistic. Even their ideas of life, the future are set to hone rhetoric and one ideal, they hold as the standard of truth and reality - and it's all totally fiction. None of it is real or close to being real. I'm not going to get more upset because spore drive is less real science fiction (see the contradiction?) than warp drive.

    For all i know and all you know, spore drive could actually be closer to the reality than warp drive - warp drive just seems more plausible by 60s science wacky theory.

    The point is they are all not real, - i don't like one any more or less than the other. I appreciated having a new gimmick that felt futuristic and allowed them to do more impossible things. That's the attraction of science fiction, you do impossible things that you're not supposed to be able to do, none of it is real, none more valid than the other. if you can imagine it, then you can implement it in fiction, the only real qualification for something in fiction is that it can be imagined. And that is as good a basis for it than any other - why? Because it isn't actually real.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Yes. Because there was not as much focus through a single season on warp drives and a quasi-metaphysical analog of the "muscles and veins of the universe!" for the purpose of storytelling. Plausibility is irrelevant; drama is the goal. As a source of drama, I find the spore engine eye-rolling.
    They touch on t more, you should finish the season and watch the next one. Also don't forget warp drive has 7-8 star trek series behind it, building it up, expanding it etc, give it some time, or not.

  5. #2185
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    They touch on t more, you should finish the season and watch the next one. Also don't forget warp drive has 7-8 star trek series behind it, building it up, expanding it etc, give it some time, or not.
    I am still watching. I'm gonna go through everything on this CBS All Access in a week or so.
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  6. #2186
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I am still watching. I'm gonna go through everything on this CBS All Access in a week or so.
    The way I approached it, is that i just didn't listen to all the perspectives on it, and I ended up finding out i liked it more than i thought I would.

    Like all fiction, I don't think too much about how they got things to be, learnt to block it out and just enjoy the entertainment, from the cool effects, or cool fighting scenes, the incredible fantasy and theories about the future or the plot whenever it is interesting - and they do make it engaging enough if you ignore the errors - which I find I can within reason for most operations.

  7. #2187
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    The way I approached it, is that I just didn't listen to all the perspectives on it, and I ended up finding out I liked it more than I thought I would.

    Like all fiction, I don't think too much about how they got things to be, learned to block it out and just enjoy the entertainment, from the cool effects, or cool fighting scenes, the incredible fantasy and theories about the future or the plot whenever it is interesting - and they do make it engaging enough if you ignore the errors - which I find I can within reason for most operations.
    Well, same. I am not looking to Star Trek Discovery for a science lesson. It's the drama as a result of the fantasy which is engaging- and I do enjoy the show quite a bit. I am not hung up on the technicality or "errors" of the mushroom engine. I just think a lot of it came off weakly when they made analogies to the "connectedness of all things!"

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    Pike is fantastic.
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  8. #2188
    Quote Originally Posted by Niwes View Post
    yep, the biggest problem Discovery always have. EVERYTHING is always rushed. always.

    everyone is actively driven by x. everyone is on the way from a to b. everything is always just touched by a tiny bit, because „no time“ ! no time for explanations, no time for technobabble, no time to create deepness, no time for relationships, no time for nerd stuff, no time for small talk. EVERYTHING is always on the way. always.

    in the end, every season (even when i really liked them all) had that bad taste of „rushed“ after it was over.

    this would be my top priority, for a 4th season.
    heh, I might partially agree to that. But then, on the other hand, almost in every episode Burnham had a few minute philosophical monologue, or a cliche emotional conversation, that I usually skipped because they were so boring, shallow and cringeworthy. Feel like they could have put something better in place of those.
    I have enough of EA ruining great franchises and studios, forcing DRM and Origin on their games, releasing incomplete games only to sell day-1 DLCs or spill dozens of DLCs, and then saying it, and microtransactions, is what players want, stopping players from giving EA games poor reviews, as well as deflecting complaints with cheap PR tricks.

    I'm not going to buy any game by EA as long as they continue those practices.

  9. #2189
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    So by this logic TOS isn't Star Trek either, given that an entire episode is solely about a child's temper tantrum.
    The difference is the child's temper tantrum doesn't upend the whole galaxy.

    Star Trek has tons of super powerful beings, but usually they're all awkwardly limited to like a star system or planet and their powers rarely extend past that. The only exception I can think of are the Q, and for the most part they also haven't meddled with the galaxy to the extent that the kelpian kid did.

    Usually when big things change its from one of the more 'mortal' species doing something.

  10. #2190
    About halfway through Season 2 now. Captain Pike is so awesome! Love this guy, perfect Captain. Should have made the entire Discovery series about Captain Pike!
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  11. #2191
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    About halfway through Season 2 now. Captain Pike is so awesome! Love this guy, perfect Captain. Should have made the entire Discovery series about Captain Pike!
    Well, good news! There's going to be an entire show following Pike and crew: Strange New Worlds

    By the same token I would say that Lorca was one of the best parts of season 1.
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  12. #2192
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    Well, good news! There's going to be an entire show following Pike and crew: Strange New Worlds

    By the same token I would say that Lorca was one of the best parts of season 1.
    Well, slap me silly. That's awesome to know.

    I just thought Pike was so good on Discovery. Good acting and well written. Every time I thought, "The Captain probably should say something here..." Cpt. Pike did and often said the exact thing I would expect out if someone with his supposed experience, reputation and rank. He was also wonderfully humane and a excellent leader under fire so far.

    A few times now Pike has given a short speech if inspirination that landed incredibly well. Yet without any of the eye rolling dialogue of other characters this far.

    Terrific. This is what I was expecting out of Discovery.

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    Oh damn, this is tied to The Menagerie? What? My mind is blown.

    Season 2 significantly better than season 1: mushroom madness.
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  13. #2193
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Well, slap me silly. That's awesome to know.

    I just thought Pike was so good on Discovery. Good acting and well written. Every time I thought, "The Captain probably should say something here..." Cpt. Pike did and often said the exact thing I would expect out if someone with his supposed experience, reputation and rank. He was also wonderfully humane and a excellent leader under fire so far.

    A few times now Pike has given a short speech if inspirination that landed incredibly well. Yet without any of the eye rolling dialogue of other characters this far.

    Terrific. This is what I was expecting out of Discovery.

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    Oh damn, this is tied to The Menagerie? What? My mind is blown.

    Season 2 significantly better than season 1: mushroom madness.
    I thought the same thing, and I enjoyed Season 3 even more, I liked how each season was different. Oh and avoid reading commentaries and fan reviews/discussions before you actually finish it. Otherwise they will sour your heart towards it and you are less likely to give it a fair chance.

  14. #2194
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Oh damn, this is tied to The Menagerie? What? My mind is blown.

    Season 2 significantly better than season 1: mushroom madness.
    Yeah, I didn't want to say anything and spoil it for you but that episode is all the feels I knew if you were liking Pike that you were going to really like that one.
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  15. #2195
    The Lightbringer zEmini's Avatar
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    Finished Season 3. Was a little bit boring and sometimes felt like a chore to watch. I was also very disappointed with the big reveal regarding the burn. Is that all they could come up with? Something so devastating needs a far better otherworldly explanation.

  16. #2196
    Quote Originally Posted by zEmini View Post
    Finished Season 3. Was a little bit boring and sometimes felt like a chore to watch. I was also very disappointed with the big reveal regarding the burn. Is that all they could come up with? Something so devastating needs a far better otherworldly explanation.
    Interesting pov, I didn't chain watch season 3, I wonder if that is why i was okay about the explanation of the burn. I rather liked it, and felt it was a good touch how they handled the whole interaction with the guy. I thought it was creative to make it something so obscure - I did not expect it was basically a space accident that effected the entire galaxy - but neat too, they have shown how there was more to the burn than just being cut off, like Navarr/Vulcan leaving the federation because of that and many worlds blaming their space gate technology.. so the ramifications are politically significant, but not in the way you would have expected which is some enemy alien race masterminding it.. they certainly appeared to set it up like that.

    I wonder if having a week between each episode helped in that regard - because I had time to process and sit on the possibility of it being some evil alien force but had to wait through weeks of a wild goose chase that kept throwing more questions than answering it so by the time we got to that part, it was a mystery I was properly into wanting to find out who , why and how. And i was very satisfied with it.

  17. #2197
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    I'm surprised there isn't more human evolution in the 32nd century - it's not like Star trek specifically needs it with all the different races they can use to provide literally any function or ability.

    However, it would be kinda cool to see humanity to have evolved something rather cool biologically in the future.
    Yea I don't see Star Trek (or any other of the scifi franchises out there) doing much with human evolution itself.

    Not because it would or would not be scientifically accurate, but more because /humans. If you go 'evolving' Humans into something not-as-human, the the creator/writers risk alienating 'normal' humans more and more from the show. ANY Show (not just Star Trek). You want your tv viewer to identify with characters on the screen, have empathy, etc. and you lose parts of that the more 'not human' you make your characters.

    In addition to whatever extra expenses from having more 'alien' parts on your human actors.

    But ultimately - its why none of the tv/movies about "Future" Humans really evolve humans all that much, if at any. Go changing too much and you create a smaller and smaller audience that can identify, and therefore enjoy, your show. That's not what tv/movie production is about. Not saying I agree with some of this 'fear' of losing the audience, but it is the reality they operate in.
    Koriani - Guardians of Forever - BM Huntard on TB; Kharmic - Worgen Druid - TB
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    inactive: Frith-Rae - Horizons/Istaria; Koriani in multiple old MMOs. I been around a long time.

  18. #2198
    Quote Originally Posted by Elkas View Post
    No it is not, this show treats its viewers like children
    Based on this thread alone, it is absolutely right to do so.

    Bunch of miserable nerds making themselves even more miserable by watching (or in some cases not watching, but still whinging, as evidenced by the confusion around the Burn, which is all explained in-episode) something they clearly do not enjoy.

    Such is the internet, I suppose.
    Last edited by UnifiedDivide; 2021-01-19 at 07:31 PM.

  19. #2199
    Quote Originally Posted by Koriani View Post
    Yea I don't see Star Trek (or any other of the scifi franchises out there) doing much with human evolution itself.

    Not because it would or would not be scientifically accurate, but more because /humans. If you go 'evolving' Humans into something not-as-human, the the creator/writers risk alienating 'normal' humans more and more from the show. ANY Show (not just Star Trek). You want your tv viewer to identify with characters on the screen, have empathy, etc. and you lose parts of that the more 'not human' you make your characters.
    The Federation has specific laws against genetic modification. This is why it was such a big deal that Stamets altered himself. It’s not likely he’ll turn into the second coming of Khan but the latter is why those laws exist.

  20. #2200
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The Federation has specific laws against genetic modification. This is why it was such a big deal that Stamets altered himself. It’s not likely he’ll turn into the second coming of Khan but the latter is why those laws exist.
    IIRC, there were literally "eugenics wars" over augmenting humans through genetic engineering, right? Which is where Khan came from.

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