1. #2221
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    About 4 episodes into Disco S3, I love the premise!
    S3 Burnham was the fave Burnham. She felt way more.... human, I guess? She does more smiling, at least, that's good.

  2. #2222
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    S3 Burnham was the fave Burnham. She felt way more.... human, I guess? She does more smiling, at least, that's good.
    I liked her hair too. I didn't hate the earlier versions of her, but this was the best one of her to date.

  3. #2223
    Captain Pike, the best-written character on the show thus far, aside- I think the writing for each of the individual characters is much stronger in season 3 than in previous seasons. I too like this version of Burnham a lot more than in previous seasons. As far as I am concerned the less made of Burnham's "Vulcan upbringing" the better because it is so at odds with her actions throughout the show. That was a dumb decision.

    Season 1 was the weakest by far. Moving the ship into the future and updating the tech was a very smart move. I also think the central plotline of S3 is genuinely more intriguing and a better stage for interpersonal drama.

    Like I just finished up the episode of S3 where Burham and Phillipa bust Booker out of the salvage camp. The entire arc over that episode was terrific. Admiral Vance was totally and logically in the right. His reasoning from the strat was absolutely sound and they used that to present a cool/risky adventure while following-up on the consequence of that adventure in a manner consistent with the motives. That was just great.

    I think Vance and Saru totally made the right decision.

    This is still the most insubordinate crew of any Trek show in my opinion though. None of these people do what they are told and they protest just about every command.
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  4. #2224
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Captain Pike, the best-written character on the show thus far, aside- I think the writing for each of the individual characters is much stronger in season 3 than in previous seasons. I too like this version of Burnham a lot more than in previous seasons. As far as I am concerned the less made of Burnham's "Vulcan upbringing" the better because it is so at odds with her actions throughout the show. That was a dumb decision.

    Season 1 was the weakest by far. Moving the ship into the future and updating the tech was a very smart move. I also think the central plotline of S3 is genuinely more intriguing and a better stage for interpersonal drama.

    Like I just finished up the episode of S3 where Burham and Phillipa bust Booker out of the salvage camp. The entire arc over that episode was terrific. Admiral Vance was totally and logically in the right. His reasoning from the strat was absolutely sound and they used that to present a cool/risky adventure while following-up on the consequence of that adventure in a manner consistent with the motives. That was just great.

    I think Vance and Saru totally made the right decision.

    This is still the most insubordinate crew of any Trek show in my opinion though. None of these people do what they are told and they protest just about every command.
    It gets better, trust me.

    You enjoy these things a lot more if you watch first, then read the criticisms and debates after. I discovered that when I realised that I was getting angry and pissed uoff at shows i hadn't even watched, because i was reading too much commentary, then decided, okay.. this has to stop, cutt hem off, and just watched it for what it was, was so much better, .

    i could appreciate the complaints, but having seen it myself, the it wasn't able to spoil the fun.

  5. #2225
    ENSIGN Tilly being promoted all the way to First OFFICER. Bbbwhahah, I choked on my coffee!
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  6. #2226
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    ENSIGN Tilly being promoted all the way to First OFFICER. Bbbwhahah, I choked on my coffee!
    Except that's not really a promotion, she's still an Ensign. It's a job title, a duty. And she doesn't do a spectacular job of it, so that one's on Saru. I don't really feel he was well-suited to the captain's chair ... but he made a great First Officer and conscience to the Captain.

    Throughout the course of Star Trek, let's not forget, we've seen Lieutenants and Ensigns and whatnot sit in the captain's chair numerous times and command a vessel. The Captain and First Officer typically are only on duty for a portion of the day, leaving the other shifts to lower ranked individuals. So, it's a stretch to give her that job but in Trek not totally impossible IMO.
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  7. #2227
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    ENSIGN Tilly being promoted all the way to First OFFICER. Bbbwhahah, I choked on my coffee!
    I was like wtf... but it wasn't off putting to me, it was charming.

  8. #2228
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    Except that's not really a promotion, she's still an Ensign. It's a job title, a duty. And she doesn't do a spectacular job of it, so that one's on Saru. I don't really feel he was well-suited to the captain's chair ... but he made a great First Officer and conscience to the Captain.

    Throughout the course of Star Trek, let's not forget, we've seen Lieutenants and Ensigns and whatnot sit in the captain's chair numerous times and command a vessel. The Captain and First Officer typically are only on duty for a portion of the day, leaving the other shifts to lower ranked individuals. So, it's a stretch to give her that job but in Trek not totally impossible IMO.
    I don't care about the plausibility of her promotion, she is.portrayed as clearly being young and inexperienced. And her character is a goof most of the time. Its hilarious they are going so hard for this character.
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  9. #2229
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I don't care about the plausibility of her promotion, she is.portrayed as clearly being young and inexperienced. And her character is a goof most of the time. Its hilarious they are going so hard for this character.
    They are, indeed. It seems they want to give her more to do than just figure out sci-tech stuff with Stamets. I liked at the start of the season when they had her go down to the ice planet with Saru, it was interesting for the character. But I'm hopeful that in season 4 the First Officer bit gets left behind, especially considering she made a mess of it. That would actually be some nice character development as well.
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  10. #2230
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    They are, indeed. It seems they want to give her more to do than just figure out sci-tech stuff with Stamets. I liked at the start of the season when they had her go down to the ice planet with Saru, it was interesting for the character. But I'm hopeful that in season 4 the First Officer bit gets left behind, especially considering she made a mess of it. That would actually be some nice character development as well.
    Agree totally.
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  11. #2231
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    Quote Originally Posted by zEmini View Post
    Finished Season 3. Was a little bit boring and sometimes felt like a chore to watch. I was also very disappointed with the big reveal regarding the burn. Is that all they could come up with? Something so devastating needs a far better otherworldly explanation.
    Yes...it is all they could come up with, they're just that awful and pale in comparison to even the worst of Star Trek. Their writing makes even things like Spock's brain look almost smart in comparison.

    That is what you get when they do something original...but 98% of their work is just watching Netflix all day and stealing ideas and scenarios from everything else.
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  12. #2232
    Gotta admit, the lady from The Chain was making a lot of sense when she showed up with that treaty.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Uh, what. That is the cause of the burn? Fucking lame.

    Should have kept it as a forever mystery rather than resorting to that hokum. So lame.
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  13. #2233
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Gotta admit, the lady from The Chain was making a lot of sense when she showed up with that treaty.
    Right up until she demonstrated that she was full of shit. I'm not really convinced she was ever willing to give up the power she would have had to in order to form an alliance like that, even without the admiral's demand that she step down and stand trial for her crimes.

  14. #2234
    I found the entire idea that Vance was letting them fly around the galaxy with basically zero supervision utterly ridiculous. His first instincts were right. Replace the crew (other than Paul), Get everyone caught up on the last ~900 years, and then see if they can actually still fit in Starfleet anymore.

    Ensign Tilly as First Officer is ridiculous. Even more ridiculous is that the entire crew was like "Yay, that's awesome". Right. That's a huge slap in the face to basically everyone else and Saru would know that. Should have brought in someone from that century to serve as first officer...at least on a temporary basis.

    The explanation for the Burn was garbage.

  15. #2235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    They are, indeed. It seems they want to give her more to do than just figure out sci-tech stuff with Stamets. I liked at the start of the season when they had her go down to the ice planet with Saru, it was interesting for the character. But I'm hopeful that in season 4 the First Officer bit gets left behind, especially considering she made a mess of it. That would actually be some nice character development as well.
    I think that is my biggest problem with the show (your last sentence I mean...)

    I 'enjoy' the show - well enough. Its entertaining enough - but I do more 'eye rolling ignoring' of the writing, characterizations, and plots than I do for the vast majority of other tv shows I watch. But its still 'good enough' to watch; esp. when the Pandemic Year puts everything else on slow-release.

    But the lack of using events to further character development - may be what breaks me for this show. I just really wish, no matter how tropey or how Godlike the characters are, the writers would take these events and actually show character development that lasts longer than an episode. There have been all sorts of great plot points, inter-relationship drama, etc. that they could have done something with that would have brought so much more depth to the characters and events moving forward - that only goes nowhere (never brought up again) or is only briefly played out (at best).

    Using *only* the most recent example - at the end of Season 3; but there is usually at least "one or two lost opportunities" per episode that are similar:


    When Burnham sticks Stammets on the shuttle off the ship to make sure he couldn't be used by The Chain driving Disco. He's pissed - rightfully so. They do a great job of building this up in the scene and making it very clear how 'not ok' he is with this. By the end of the episode, we get a nasty look from Stamets to Burnham, but I wasn't expecting more at this point as they are wrapping up the season.


    Would love for this to be built upon in s4. To really play out the character dynamic here - using the discord between crew members to further some real character development between them. Possibly tying in the overarching "Burnahm's actions affect more than just her" with a variety of crew members so that she gets some real character growth happening. For everyone.

    But - like with every other opportunity the plot created in past episodes - they won't. If we're (viewing audience) are lucky we'll get a few conversations between the characters for an episode or two (if that) that ultimately leads no where real for any of them other than Stammets getting over it and returning to a happy state with Burnham.

    Or using your example - the fact that yes, we could get some great character development and meaty bits for Tilly because of all of this. Of being thrust into the 1st officer's chair; of everything that happened after that point, etc. But we won't. Again - we might, in the first or 2nd episode of Season 4 - get some sort of discussion from Tilly with Burnham or Saru about what she is supposedly grappling with as an affect of all that. But that will be the extent of it.

    Just like they did with the crew settling the "We're 1K years in the future and alone now" dynamic - touched upon for a single episode and then apparently everyone's fine again.

    I think that, more than anything else about this show that 'isn't great', is what really turns me sour on the show. All of the grand-non-sensical-ness of the events, timeline, mechanics, whatever - all of that I can look past and enjoy myself. But the dead-end writing may end up making all of it unenjoyable for me. I at least want events from one episode to another to have some sort of impact on the characters' dynamics. For all of these crazy, life-altering, events to have more than an hour-long impact on a character's personality. That's the factor in their writing that may end up killing it for me.

    I mean hell, even most 30 minute comedy sitcoms demonstrate this type of character growth at least once or twice a season.
    Last edited by Koriani; 2021-01-27 at 09:11 PM.
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  16. #2236
    It's really baffling that after 3 seasons the only characters who had meaningful development are Stamets (less arrogant) and Empress (less Terran), and the latter is out already.

  17. #2237
    Just a reminder of some of what we got from older Trek:

    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  18. #2238
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    Just a reminder of some of what we got from older Trek:
    Your point?

    I quite enjoyed that episode, watched it a few days ago actually.

    Posting a picture without context doesn't mean much.

  19. #2239
    Character Development:

    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  20. #2240
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    Just a reminder of some of what we got from older Trek:
    The Thaw is a pretty fantastic episode, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    Character Development:
    Ok yeah this one is trash. Possibly one of the worst Trek episodes ever made. Right along with that weird Tasha Yar spiky-fisted catfight one. Dear gods...

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