1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Why not? Enterprise was very inconsistent at times but I liked that they were flying in a time when the technology wasn't up to par. It made things a little more dangerous and we got to see things in a much different way than any other ST show. Admittedly, the ship was at times more interesting than its crew.

    Having said that the going back approach is not warranted for Discovery. We have TOS, we don't need to rehash it. TNG, DS9 and VOY at least built on each other.

    I'm going to watch it regardless but I would've prefered the 25th century.
    I think its something like warhammer 40k refusing to go past the year 40999 untill recently. They dont want to advance that much.

  2. #242
    Prequels suck.

    I'm not sure how the idea of a prequel doesn't get thrown out in the brain storming phase of developing a new Trek show. Star Trek is about exploration and going into the unknown, it uses this backdrop as a means to explore contemporary problems/issues, yet every piece of Star Trek we get from studios since Voyager is about going back in time. Not content with telling pointless stories no one cares about, they turn the stories into action scenes and lens flairs, coupled with some unnecessary rehash of the Star Trek universe. Thanks CBS, now we get to see how Vulcans and Humans interact with each other in the beginning of their relationship for the fourth time. Awesome, we get to see Starfleet meet the Klingons for the first time for the third time!

    The saga of shit Trek reboots reminds me of the scene from Parks and Rec where Leslie is consoling Bobby Newport after his father died. She tells him a story about how she ran track to impress her mother, how she was terrible and certain she was a disappointment because her mother was a great athlete, but even after finishing last in the final race of the season, her mother was proud of her anyway. Bobby Newport doesn't understand the story, but goes on to retell the story with himself as the central character, but in his version he was never terrible and wins the race. The fans keep telling the studio we want Leslie's story, and they keep giving us Bobby's.

  3. #243
    Immortal Hammerfest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    United States of America
    Posts
    7,848
    Yeah, I'm waiting for Hollywood to catch up and realize that prequels are inherently less exciting than sequels. It seems ever since Lucas's Star Wars prequels, they've been here to stay. When it comes to Star Trek, while I did enjoy Enterprise, it wasn't what I really wanted. I wanted to find out what happened in Starfleet after the Dominion War. I wanted to know what that Starfleet was like and how that Starfleet was doing after such a major, World War II-like war. I would like to revisit even if it's just briefly, Deep Space Nine... maybe get a glimpse of USS Voyager or USS Titan on such a series.

    But no. And not only are they giving us another prequel, they are reinventing the whole thing at the same time. And it doesn't even look appealing.
    Last edited by Hammerfest; 2017-09-02 at 05:31 PM.
    -Harlan Hammerfest, Paladin

    "Do you suppose it is beyond us to produce a dual system of astronomy? The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them. Do you suppose our mathematicians are unequal to that? Have you forgotten doublethink?" - O'brien, from Orwell's "Nineteen Eighty-Four"

  4. #244
    Ojou-sama Medusa Cascade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kawasaki City
    Posts
    4,038
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerfest View Post
    Yeah, I'm waiting for Hollywood to catch up and realize that prequels are inherently less exciting than prequels. It seems ever since Lucas's Star Wars prequels, they've been here to stay. When it comes to Star Trek, while I did enjoy Enterprise, it wasn't what I really wanted. I wanted to find out what happened in Starfleet after the Dominion War. I wanted to know what that Starfleet was like and how that Starfleet was doing after such a major, World War II-like war. I would like to revisit even if it's just briefly, Deep Space Nine... maybe get a glimpse of USS Voyager or USS Titan on such a series.

    But no. And not only are they giving us another prequel, they are reinventing the whole thing at the same time. And it doesn't even look appealing.
    I want a series based around Captain Dax, or Captain Mackenzie Calhoun or even the Corps of Engineers.

  5. #245
    Immortal Hammerfest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    United States of America
    Posts
    7,848
    Quote Originally Posted by Seiko Sora View Post
    I want a series based around Captain Dax, or Captain Mackenzie Calhoun or even the Corps of Engineers.
    The whole point of Peter David's series of Pocketbooks books was that he had his own crew that existed outside movies or television. From what I've read, that was part of his deal with Paramount Television was that the characters he got to use would never appear on television or movies again. Great characters like Captain/Admiral Jellico, Commander Shelby, Lt. Lefler and Dr. Selar.
    Last edited by Hammerfest; 2017-09-02 at 05:27 PM.
    -Harlan Hammerfest, Paladin

    "Do you suppose it is beyond us to produce a dual system of astronomy? The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them. Do you suppose our mathematicians are unequal to that? Have you forgotten doublethink?" - O'brien, from Orwell's "Nineteen Eighty-Four"

  6. #246
    I hate what they've done to the Klingons

    Kom graun, oso na graun op. Kom folau, oso na gyon op.

    #IStandWithGinaCarano

  7. #247
    I don't know why they're so scared of doing a show set after DS9/VOY. It's like they're so freaked out about Nemesis that they're just going to let the series die or something.

  8. #248
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by mayhem008 View Post
    I hate what they've done to the Klingons
    If they want to change it so much, why not make it to a new unique IP? No need to pay royalties....

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Kragragh View Post
    I don't know why they're so scared of doing a show set after DS9/VOY. It's like they're so freaked out about Nemesis that they're just going to let the series die or something.
    Part of the problem is that... well a lot of time has passed. Starting with the debut of TNG in 1987, the television shows progressed at a rate of roughly 1 season = 1 year, so that 1987 = 2364 and December 2002 / Star Trek Nemesis = December 2379.


    At the same 1 season = 1 year rate, we're currently in 2394. Next year, 2018 will be 2395, the same year as the anti-Time future in "All Good Things..." (the TNG conclusion).

    Effectively, it wouldn't be a Dominion War aftermath at this point anymore. That boat sailed well over a decade and a half ago. It would be about what came many years later, maybe with supporting roles of some TNG-era figures. But getting the old faces all back together? Within the story, they all would have moved on. Picard would long since be retired by now. Riker would be a middle-ranking Admiral. The Enterprise E, a ship designed in the late 2060s and built in the early 2370s, would be in the prime of her life, but not anything approaching the most advanced of what Star Fleet could do. I know the books covered a lot of this territory, but I'm putting that aside here. It's just been too long.

    A kind of similar thing is with StarGate SG-1. That franchise did the 1 season = 1 year thing too, and referenced in the final season being "together for 10 years". But they're Air Force people, and promotion through military is "up or out". O'Niel's last rank in Star Gate Universe in 2009 was 3 star (Lieutenant General), which, being above two stars, is a rank assigned to the holder of a specific job (in this case Homeworld Security). He would have to be either promoted within a few years to a 4 star position (like Head of US Northern Command) or would have to retire. He's also 65 now, which means mandatory retirement, but that likely happened at least 5 years ago now. And Carter? Probably a Brigrader General by now, at least.

    If we went into the post-DS9 / Nemesis era, it'd probably be best to put more seperation from it, rather than less, unless there is a desire for cameos (by actors who are aging). A mid 25th century show in other words. For the life of me, I don't understand why Discovery isn't that.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Part of the problem is that... well a lot of time has passed. Starting with the debut of TNG in 1987, the television shows progressed at a rate of roughly 1 season = 1 year, so that 1987 = 2364 and December 2002 / Star Trek Nemesis = December 2379.


    At the same 1 season = 1 year rate, we're currently in 2394. Next year, 2018 will be 2395, the same year as the anti-Time future in "All Good Things..." (the TNG conclusion).

    Effectively, it wouldn't be a Dominion War aftermath at this point anymore. That boat sailed well over a decade and a half ago. It would be about what came many years later, maybe with supporting roles of some TNG-era figures. But getting the old faces all back together? Within the story, they all would have moved on. Picard would long since be retired by now. Riker would be a middle-ranking Admiral. The Enterprise E, a ship designed in the late 2060s and built in the early 2370s, would be in the prime of her life, but not anything approaching the most advanced of what Star Fleet could do. I know the books covered a lot of this territory, but I'm putting that aside here. It's just been too long.

    A kind of similar thing is with StarGate SG-1. That franchise did the 1 season = 1 year thing too, and referenced in the final season being "together for 10 years". But they're Air Force people, and promotion through military is "up or out". O'Niel's last rank in Star Gate Universe in 2009 was 3 star (Lieutenant General), which, being above two stars, is a rank assigned to the holder of a specific job (in this case Homeworld Security). He would have to be either promoted within a few years to a 4 star position (like Head of US Northern Command) or would have to retire. He's also 65 now, which means mandatory retirement, but that likely happened at least 5 years ago now. And Carter? Probably a Brigrader General by now, at least.

    If we went into the post-DS9 / Nemesis era, it'd probably be best to put more seperation from it, rather than less, unless there is a desire for cameos (by actors who are aging). A mid 25th century show in other words. For the life of me, I don't understand why Discovery isn't that.
    But they can pick up whenever they want...there's zero reason for it to be one year. They can pick up post DS9 easily.

    My opinion - theyre having trouble coming up with a good villain/race to be antagonists. Personally I think they should mke the Cardassians full evil but.

  11. #251
    I think they need to just make another leap like they did from Original to TNG. I think people get to caught up technology and such but let us be honest Trek has been mostly techno-babble when explaining technology as far as the shows and movies on screen are concerned. Just jump it 50-60 years into the future of the end of DS9. Keep similar players, and the similar theme of exploring and discovering new things in space, have seasonal arcs that loosely fit into mostly randomized seasons, and hell even have it on a new Enterprise. Star Trek is good when its about the people on the ship solving mysteries and over coming strange things encountered in space. DS9 went into the focused arc story telling and it was pretty good but it still had a lot of random episodes mix into the seasons that kept it fresh.

    The problem I feel the franchise keeps running into is that it seems to keep trying to tell an origin story. Enterprise did alright once it figured out what it was doing but it ended up happening way to late in the shows cycle. The franchise has always done well by moving forward. Most do. It is easier to tell a story based on a foundation than it is to build a foundation under a story.

    I want this show to do well. I will watch it unless it just ends up being really against my tastes and that will be hard to do. But end of the day I just wish they would move forward outside of the JJ verse and go back to the original time line.

  12. #252
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    In the state of Denial.
    Posts
    26,426
    Quote Originally Posted by Kragragh View Post
    My opinion - theyre having trouble coming up with a good villain/race to be antagonists. Personally I think they should mke the Cardassians full evil but.
    There was already a Cardassian-Federation war. It basically took place before DS9.

    Now, I mean I wouldn't mind a series that dealt with the various wars of the Federation, but I really do think that's largely counter to the themes of exploration, discovery and science. It's one thing to have the occasional fight or running conflict as an interesting background, but I don't see a "war movie" version of Star Trek really going far.

    But heck I dunno, maybe it's what the series needs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    "That's my style; I like to kick 'em when they're down!"
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Kragragh View Post
    But they can pick up whenever they want...there's zero reason for it to be one year. They can pick up post DS9 easily.

    My opinion - theyre having trouble coming up with a good villain/race to be antagonists. Personally I think they should mke the Cardassians full evil but.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    There was already a Cardassian-Federation war. It basically took place before DS9.

    Now, I mean I wouldn't mind a series that dealt with the various wars of the Federation, but I really do think that's largely counter to the themes of exploration, discovery and science. It's one thing to have the occasional fight or running conflict as an interesting background, but I don't see a "war movie" version of Star Trek really going far.

    But heck I dunno, maybe it's what the series needs.
    Maybe they could have a great Tribble war. No seriously I would like to see the Xindi make a comeback. Or possibly focus on the Orion syndicate.
    Kom graun, oso na graun op. Kom folau, oso na gyon op.

    #IStandWithGinaCarano

  14. #254
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    In the state of Denial.
    Posts
    26,426
    Quote Originally Posted by mayhem008 View Post
    Maybe they could have a great Tribble war. No seriously I would like to see the Xindi make a comeback. Or possibly focus on the Orion syndicate.
    Xindi ewww. Just ewww. There's enough internal conflict with the Xindi to make their own TV series. I mean I'm kinda hoping Discovery will finally give the Federation-Klingon war some life, I mean maybe that's the easiest way to test the waters for how well a "war movie" Star Trek will do.

    Though honestly I wouldn't mind of Star Trek took a page from Gundam's book and made several shorter series (perhaps all part of the same show, but each limited to 2 seasons max) "side stories" if you will dealing with "all that stuff the main characters weren't directly involved in" but was of some significance to the history of the Federation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    "That's my style; I like to kick 'em when they're down!"
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  15. #255
    This show is going to bomb so incredibly bad.

    It's really telling when even the company that basically paid for the production (Netflix) is absolutely pissed with the final product. Nevermind that it's already as good as cancelled unless it pulls out some amazing numbers (which it almost certainly won't) and that they're already working on a completely different series with a completely different group of people at the helm.

    Such an embarrassment for CBS.

  16. #256
    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Québec, Québec
    Posts
    4,030
    If they were making a show set after the Berman universe, they should make it at least a hundred years after Voyager. Voyager was not as good as DS9 and Enterprise was weaker than Voyager. I believe that's because they said all they could have said in that universe. Make a show 100 years after Voyager. The Federation would have found a way to travel to a different galaxy (like the Magellanic Clouds or Andromeda) and would have founded a few colonies there. The show would follow an exploration ship as it was discovering that new galaxy, making new friends and enemies. I could imagine that the crew could have a Bajoran first officer and a Cardassian engineer (female, of course), who would be best friends in the world. Both Bajor and Cardassia would have joined the Federation.

    Or make it 200 years. The Federation would have become despotic and their members in Andromeda would rebel against them, fighting for the old ideals of the Federation.
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  17. #257
    i dont like that the main actress looks like she is 20 years old.
    IRL she is about 30something but she just looks waaaaay too young to be in charge of a star trek ship.

    Even disregarding that, i just hope star trek does not devolve to the common drama garbage that can be seen daily on fox life and similar.

  18. #258
    The Captain is far too young.
    Who's messing with the genetic makeup of Klingons every reboot?
    Prequels suck in science fiction.

    But I'm still 100% going to watch.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  19. #259
    Titan Gallahadd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Beyond the 1% barrier.
    Posts
    14,178
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    The Captain is far too young.
    Who's messing with the genetic makeup of Klingons every reboot?
    Prequels suck in science fiction.

    But I'm still 100% going to watch.
    I think this sums up most of my problem with fandom these days .

    OMG, everything about this thing is wrong! I'll still watch all of it, maybe buy the season when it comes out, pick up some merch, you know... support the show and make sure it does well... but it's wwrrrooonnnnnngggggggg!

    Also: I've seen conflicting reports, but aren't the two captains played by Jason Isaac and Michelle Yeoh? Neither of whom I would describe as young.
    Check out the blog I write for LEGENDARY Indie Label Flicknife Records:

    Blog Thirty is live! In which we discuss our latest releases, and our great new line of T-shirts.
    https://www.flickniferecords.co.uk/blog/item/30-blog-30

  20. #260
    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Québec, Québec
    Posts
    4,030
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post
    I think this sums up most of my problem with fandom these days .

    OMG, everything about this thing is wrong! I'll still watch all of it, maybe buy the season when it comes out, pick up some merch, you know... support the show and make sure it does well... but it's wwrrrooonnnnnngggggggg!

    Also: I've seen conflicting reports, but aren't the two captains played by Jason Isaac and Michelle Yeoh? Neither of whom I would describe as young.
    You're right. The main character is not the captain, but the first officer. The show begins on the USS Shenzhou, commanded by Cpt. Philippa Georgiou, played by Michelle Yeoh. Then it goes to USS Discovery, commanded by Cpt. Gabriel Lorca, played by Jason Isaac. I like that the main character, Michael Burnham, is not the captain. It changes the focus of the show and will probably place the action closer to the rank-and-file of Starfleet. Although I suspect that she will end up being the captain. If the show survives it's own nitpicky fan-base, that is...

    Personnaly, I prefer the Shenzhou, but I suppose that I will get to like the Discovery.
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •