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  1. #1561
    I like the idea of Red Angel being a good AI and then the other being the bad AI.

  2. #1562
    Dreadlord bloodkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    This isn't necessarily a bad thing.

    Blow up the Discovery, destroying the Spore Drive, and let's destroy all records of that tech because shit's fucked up. Crew escapes. Pike goes back to the Enterprise. The Enterprise, having been in dock for a while for repairs/overhaul, now needs new crew, since the old crew weren't waiting around a year or more; Pike takes his pick from the best on Discovery, since he knows what they're capable of.

    Pull Saru in (because Doug Jones is fucking awesome), Tilley, New Spock (he was old Enterprise anyway, and I actually like the new guy), maybe some of the visible bridge crew like Keyla Detmer that we really don't know much about. Leave out Burnham, Ash Tyler, probably Stametz and Culber (I think they're great, but I also think they've run their course, story-wise, after this season). Introduce new characters to fill in the gaps.

    Shift some of them around a bit; Tilley's the new Chief Engineer, youngest in Starfleet. Put Saru in charge of security; his new predatory instincts and intellect allow for a COMPLETELY new spin on the role for the series.

    Keep Michelle Yeoh's Georgiou around occasionally, if you can, because she's great.



    She's also not growing as a character. They gave her the best possible arc at the start of Season 1, and then basically ignored it, and hand-waved it away by the end of that season. Shifting to the Enterprise is a good excuse to dump her. I can't put all the blame on Martin-Green; she's been given pretty poor material to work with. Burnham's just angry or confused, like, all the time. Even her romance sideplot with Ash is mostly anger and confusion. Occasionally, disgust.
    Agreed, that would be the best course, however I do expect thst we are going to get more of burnham forced to the front. I'm very annoyed that she's such a forced character to me, and her acting is worse than in the walking dead, in which I enjoyed her far more.
    'Something's awry.' -Duhgan 'Bel' beltayn

    'A Man choses, a Slave obeys.' -Andrew Rayn

  3. #1563
    Herald of the Titans Strawberry's Avatar
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    This is getting a bit annoying.

    It's not "Star Trek Discovery", it's "Michael Burnham Show".

    Michael Burnham, starts a war with the Klingons.
    Michael Burnham, ends the war with the Klingons.
    Michael Burnham, The Red Angel from the future.
    Michael Burnham, the one who will save all sentient life in the galaxy.

    Can they make it more Michael Burnham?

    The funniest part about the latest episode is that everyone was watching her die on the big screen. How fucked up isn't that XD
    Last edited by Strawberry; 2019-03-23 at 09:14 PM.

  4. #1564
    Anung un Rama Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    This is getting a bit annoying.

    It's not "Star Trek Discovery", it's "Michael Burnham Show".

    Michael Burnham, starts a war with the Klingons.
    Michael Burnham, ends the war with the Klingons.
    Michael Burnham, The Red Angel from the future.
    Michael Burnham, the one who will save all sentient life in the galaxy.

    Can they make it more Michael Burnham?

    The funniest part about the latest episode is that everyone was watching her die on the big screen. How fucked up isn't that XD
    For the second two of those, try finishing the last episode. Because they're wrong.

  5. #1565
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    This is getting a bit annoying.

    It's not "Star Trek Discovery", it's "Michael Burnham Show".

    Michael Burnham, starts a war with the Klingons.
    Michael Burnham, ends the war with the Klingons.
    Michael Burnham, The Red Angel from the future.
    Michael Burnham, the one who will save all sentient life in the galaxy.

    Can they make it more Michael Burnham?

    The funniest part about the latest episode is that everyone was watching her die on the big screen. How fucked up isn't that XD
    Could be worse. She could've start the universe's sketchiest bromance with a near-omnipotent being who almost obliterated the Federation how many times?

    Also the funniest part of the episode is watching Georgiou fuck with Stamets's head.

  6. #1566
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Could be worse. She could've start the universe's sketchiest bromance with a near-omnipotent being who almost obliterated the Federation how many times?
    Doesn't really count. The Federation was never REALLY in danger. The ST equivalent of "it was just a prank, bro!". Omnipotence just adds a little spice to it because it means you know it COULD happen. But it won't. But it could. But won't.

  7. #1567
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Doesn't really count. The Federation was never REALLY in danger. The ST equivalent of "it was just a prank, bro!". Omnipotence just adds a little spice to it because it means you know it COULD happen. But it won't. But it could. But won't.
    Point was that Picard was the focus of many, many episodes of TNG yet never seems to get any shit for it. Not that I think it was needed but he's an incredibly capable person who never gets called a "Mary Sue".

    Also the Borg was a ghastly threat through TNG and VOY. That's a pretty lethal prank.

  8. #1568
    Anung un Rama Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Point was that Picard was the focus of many, many episodes of TNG yet never seems to get any shit for it. Not that I think it was needed but he's an incredibly capable person who never gets called a "Mary Sue".
    The hilarious thing about calling Burnham a "Mary Sue" is that Mary Sues are without flaw.

    Burnham committed mutiny in her first episode and got kicked out of Starfleet and thrown in prison. That her rank was restored by the end of Season 1 does not change that. She's also demonstrated plenty of character flaws; she can be a poor friend, she has difficulty forgiving and moving past things, she's often too emotionally reserved.

    I would agree that I think she's one of the least interesting characters in Discovery, and that there will be little reason to keep her past this season. The mutiny/pulled back into service without rank story was interesting, I thought. I would have preferred they not give her back her rank, ever. Without that, we've just got "she's Spock's sister", and that's just retreading Spock. And now we've GOT Spock, and the actor's great, so let's let Burnham move on and just stick with actual Spock, rather than surrogate almost-Spock.

    That said, modern television is much more focused on long-arc storytelling with major central characters, than the episodic serialization of TNG, where it was easy to do one-off episodes every week focusing on a different crew member. We keep focusing on Burnham because the plots of both seasons integrally involve Burnham; the only way to get around that would be to remove the season-wide plot arc, and I don't think that's an improvement. It's a hallmark of when people would miss episodes and not have PVRs set to auto-record; in this day and age, between PVRs and on-demand streaming, you don't have to skip an episode, and long-form storytelling is preferable overall.

  9. #1569
    Doing so great that even the shills are giving up on this dumpster fire...only 60% from critics

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/st...covery/s02/e10
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  10. #1570
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The hilarious thing about calling Burnham a "Mary Sue" is that Mary Sues are without flaw.
    .
    The second most hilarious thing about the recent episode was Spock roasting Burnham. McCoy had it easy by comparison.

  11. #1571
    Anung un Rama Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorotia View Post
    Doing so great that even the shills are giving up on this dumpster fire...only 60% from critics

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/st...covery/s02/e10
    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/franchise/star_trek/

    The overall is 83%.

    That puts it lightyears ahead of Enterprise, ahead of Voyager and TOS, and somewhat behind TNG and DS9.

  12. #1572
    its to much Michael Burnham, i have no problem at all a character having more importance but this is really to far especially on a spaceship crew, its sad that i see on The Orville alot more of this than in Discovery

    i even see more of the ship people and interact with them in The Orville then in Discovery

    but as of Discovery can't really get why the need to capture the Red Angel if its helping them especially if the AI is already here, so the cut the wormhole and capture the Red Angel doesn't make any sense now or its just me that failed to see something

  13. #1573
    Anung un Rama Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike` View Post
    but as of Discovery can't really get why the need to capture the Red Angel if its helping them especially if the AI is already here, so the cut the wormhole and capture the Red Angel doesn't make any sense now or its just me that failed to see something
    They can't figure out what it's doing/planning. They know it's helping, but they don't know how THEY can help, because it can't communicate with them because of the tech it's using.

    So they fucked with that tech, so they can have a chat and get some real answers.

  14. #1574
    The Undying freefolk's Avatar
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    This last episode was solid and very much a "Trek" episode. Hope to see more of the same in the future.
    .

    "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."

    -- Capt. Copeland

  15. #1575
    Titan draykorinee's Avatar
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    Are we really back to Burnham being a Mary Sue after all the times she's been saved by others after fucking it all up...

    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    Michael Burnham, The Red Angel from the future.
    Michael Burnham, the one who will save all sentient life in the galaxy.
    At least we all know you don't watch the show your criticising.
    Last edited by draykorinee; 2019-03-25 at 01:00 PM.

  16. #1576
    Herald of the Titans Strawberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Are we really back to Burnham being a Mary Sue after all the times she's been saved by others after fucking it all up...



    At least we all know you don't watch the show your criticising.
    Oh yeah? Just because the story changed at the end of the latest episode?
    I watched it alright, just because the story was changed doesn't change the fact that the story WAS about her being the red angel, so my post was correct.

  17. #1577
    Anung un Rama Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    Oh yeah? Just because the story changed at the end of the latest episode?
    I watched it alright, just because the story was changed doesn't change the fact that the story WAS about her being the red angel, so my post was correct.
    Except she never was, and thus your post was not correct.

    The story didn't "change". You made an assumption that was wrong.

  18. #1578
    Herald of the Titans Strawberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Except she never was, and thus your post was not correct.

    The story didn't "change". You made an assumption that was wrong.
    Holy shit you must be fun at parties.
    The story about her WAS right until the very end when IT WAS CHANGED.
    You have to be in the story as it's going, not watch it completely and say "yeah I knew everything and the ending from the start of the episode".
    Man I'm fucking done.

  19. #1579
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    Holy shit you must be fun at parties.
    The story about her WAS right until the very end when IT WAS CHANGED.
    You have to be in the story as it's going, not watch it completely and say "yeah I knew everything and the ending from the start of the episode".
    Man I'm fucking done.
    You know instead of assuming you knew what was going on maybe you could just watch it. Time travel stories means there will be curve balls.
    Even if it was Burnham it could've been:
    Old Lady Burnham (Took decades for her to learn how to be a proper Mary Sue)
    Made From Spores Burnham (It could happen)
    Mirror Burnham (I was honestly leaning in this direction)
    Mirror Georgiou (Would totally copy Burnham's brave waves)
    Hyper Malevolent AI From The Future Fucking With Our Shit (We only had Airiam's word it was Burnham and I wouldn't consider her to be reliable)
    Q (Because Q)
    Q (Because the show needs more Suzie Plakson)
    Jeffrey Combs Character To Be Named Later (WTF CBS?!?!? Hire him already)

    Young NotReallyAMarySue Burnham is not any more plausible than any of these.

  20. #1580
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    [spoiler]
    So they fucked with that tech, so they can have a chat and get some real answers.
    The problem I have with this tech is that they are about what 200ish or so years behind the Red Angel tech, in all that time the Red Angel suit went through ZERO modifications?

    This crew was able to crack the tech in under 2-4 hours(in show time, not ours). I get that it was created by Section 31 but come on......

    And They REALLY should have left Burnham dead...... this is getting way out of control now.

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