(TV) Star Trek: Discovery

[Icaras]

I think what confirmed my hated for Burnham (A character I was already hating in Seasons 1 and 2) was the Vulcan episode of S3.

Her mother "Just happens" to be on the planet (Even tho we last saw her in the future and implied she was trapped.) How lucky that magic burnham was along...no wait, magic burnham is ALWAYS along *sigh*, and JUST HAPPENS to be (apparently an important/ranking member of) a romulan religious sect they need to convince for whatever it was they wanted the vulcans/romulans to give them.
How is she there, why is she a member even tho shes like the only human, why is it somebody related to burnham out of all the entire universe? Don't know the show just wanted it to be somebody linked to magic burnham, so it is.

Ultimately they don't trust magic burnham and she doesn't get what she wan...wait, wait...no they just change their mind at the end, just because, so she does get what she wants. Apparently just because she's magic burnham.

And this seems to always be the case, where she's either force butting in to be involved in that episodes events, or other characters (whose skills rightly cause them to be suggested) back out and actually suggested burnham instead (And usually for very pathetic reasons, which break down to "the writers actually wanted magic burnham to be involved. it didn't make sense so...fuck it, here she is. Bye!")

I actually couldn't make it all the way through season 3 I quit 2 or 3 episodes before the end and I seriously doubt i'll come back to the show. (Espeically given what I've heard about the last episode)

I still; find it crazy just how little we know of what of the rest of the characters, even when it seems like characters are starting to get focus they just vanish for ages and then show back up back in their "Here I am in the background. Doing nothing. Saying nothing. Because I'm not magic burnham")

At least in, TOS for example (Which I've been watching recently on netflix) it makes sense for kirk and spock to be front and centre, being the captain and 1st officer. You don't see kirk telling spock to stay behind and grabbing some random ensign to be the episodes big damn hero, because it wouldn't make sense.

The show really needed to dial back on trying to continually hero moment burham, tho from what I see on social media, it seems like you eitehr completely buy into her character or just completely hate her character, haha.

[Kithelle]

I don't get you and people like you.. it's ALL fantasy, why do you think science fiction is often in the fantasy section? I mean, star trek has always been super unrealistic, and the science reaching at best, always, what does it matter if it is more scientific in one show or less in another, it's very far off. If you want something more realistic, you should be watching the Expanse, which lest you forget, is also FICTIONAL.

This has pretty much always been star trek, and to most ofi t's audience, Discovery is just as fictional as TNG or Voyager

I don't get people like you, who need to lie through your teeth to defend this dumpster fire

Star Trek wasn't super realistic but it tried to be somewhere realistic and adhered to at least basic science, NuTrek on the other hand can't even follow the most basic science principles "cough"sonar in space that travels faster than light"cough". It's like these writers failed basic science so they replace any science with magic...literal magic. When there was something more magic based it was saved for some kind of powerful being...but here we have mushroom drive that takes anyone anywhere instantly and devices that repair a ship instantly in the hands of your average Joe.

Yeah, because I've learned that NuTrek fans will tell themselves any lie to make themselves think this show is good

[Asrialol]

That's fair. I'm not their audience I guess. Can't really fault them for wanting to appear to a different demographic, which is a lot broader.

What did you think of the newer Star Trek movies, by JJ Abrams IIRC? If you've seen them. Same deal there, I think. Trying to introduce Star Trek to newer generations. Or... The next generation, if you will... Hehe..

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I don't get people like you, who need to lie through your teeth to defend this dumpster fire

Star Trek wasn't super realistic but it tried to be somewhere realistic and adhered to at least basic science, NuTrek on the other hand can't even follow the most basic science principles "cough"sonar in space that travels faster than light"cough". It's like these writers failed basic science so they replace any science with magic...literal magic. When there was something more magic based it was saved for some kind of powerful being...but here we have mushroom drive that takes anyone anywhere instantly and devices that repair a ship instantly in the hands of your average Joe.

Yeah, because I've learned that NuTrek fans will tell themselves any lie to make themselves think this show is good

To be fair, a lot of people lie and claim the original, older Star Trek shows are good. So I guess you're all liars.

[Elkas]

As someone who greatly enjoys DS:9 and TNG and likes Voyager, is this show for me? I've mostly heard very bad things about it.

No it is not, this show treats its viewers like children and the stories are even worse. If you like TNG and DS:9, this show simply is not for you. Go watch 'The Expanse' if you want good SCI-FI.

[Biomega]

What did you think of the newer Star Trek movies, by JJ Abrams IIRC? If you've seen them. Same deal there, I think. Trying to introduce Star Trek to newer generations. Or... The next generation, if you will... Hehe..

I watched the first and second one. I will not watch the third one. These are not ST movies for me. I don't know what they are.

[Beloren]

As someone who greatly enjoys DS:9 and TNG and likes Voyager, is this show for me? I've mostly heard very bad things about it.

Of you like Star Wars and Star Trek you’d love Discovery.


I’ve been watching all the older star treks again throughout Discovery season 3 and I’m enjoying all of them.

Discovery is a different more movie style action paced and a lot of fun.

Don’t listen too much to critics before trying something yourself and just in case you find the Klingon stuff boring, give it a few episodes. Disc gets better and better. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed every season moreso than the previous

[bloodkin]

I think what confirmed my hated for Burnham (A character I was already hating in Seasons 1 and 2) was the Vulcan episode of S3.

Her mother "Just happens" to be on the planet (Even tho we last saw her in the future and implied she was trapped.) How lucky that magic burnham was along...no wait, magic burnham is ALWAYS along *sigh*, and JUST HAPPENS to be (apparently an important/ranking member of) a romulan religious sect they need to convince for whatever it was they wanted the vulcans/romulans to give them.
How is she there, why is she a member even tho shes like the only human, why is it somebody related to burnham out of all the entire universe? Don't know the show just wanted it to be somebody linked to magic burnham, so it is.

Ultimately they don't trust magic burnham and she doesn't get what she wan...wait, wait...no they just change their mind at the end, just because, so she does get what she wants. Apparently just because she's magic burnham.

And this seems to always be the case, where she's either force butting in to be involved in that episodes events, or other characters (whose skills rightly cause them to be suggested) back out and actually suggested burnham instead (And usually for very pathetic reasons, which break down to "the writers actually wanted magic burnham to be involved. it didn't make sense so...fuck it, here she is. Bye!")

I actually couldn't make it all the way through season 3 I quit 2 or 3 episodes before the end and I seriously doubt i'll come back to the show. (Espeically given what I've heard about the last episode)

I still; find it crazy just how little we know of what of the rest of the characters, even when it seems like characters are starting to get focus they just vanish for ages and then show back up back in their "Here I am in the background. Doing nothing. Saying nothing. Because I'm not magic burnham")

At least in, TOS for example (Which I've been watching recently on netflix) it makes sense for kirk and spock to be front and centre, being the captain and 1st officer. You don't see kirk telling spock to stay behind and grabbing some random ensign to be the episodes big damn hero, because it wouldn't make sense.

The show really needed to dial back on trying to continually hero moment burham, tho from what I see on social media, it seems like you eitehr completely buy into her character or just completely hate her character, haha.

I quit halfway season 2, first time I actually quit a series that early. Her character feels so extremely forced and unnatural that I just cringe every time she's on screen. Some other supporting characters are also pretty badly written, but burnham just tops the shit tier character list by a mile. It's kind of a waste of a good actress if I'm honest. How much mary sue can be inserted into a ST series until it turns to utter shite? It's fine if someone likes this series, but for me it's a dumpster fire tier nonsense.

[Frontenac]

Its really not Star Trek. Its action show in space. Like I thought the burn was a neat mystery and then you find out is caused by a kids temper tantrum...

Which is very, very trek-like.

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Clearly you didn't read the links. There was a society that used Dilithium as jewelry and dilitihium was used in different ways through out the series ships.
The only person speculating is you. It's clearly stated singularity cores don't have antimatter matter reactions. It's also clearly stated that the intermixing not being controlled is the reason why all the ships blew up.

Also have you ever seen A D'deridex class destroyed? They don't implode. Stop making shit out to try and weasel out of being wrong.

Its a slower drive than a snails pace? Come on dude stop being so dense and admit its shit writing. And again you continue to speculate and not use facts.

To be fair, we are all speculating here, even you. We do not know how Romulan warp engines were build. Yes, they are powered by an artificial black hole, but that does not mean that dilithium is not needed somewhere else for other uses than regulating M/AM reactions. For all we know, M/AM reactions may be used to produce the artificial singularities. Because it's not because the Romulans use an artificial singularities for their ships that they don't use M/AM reactors elsewhere to power factories, space stations, residences, laboratories, etc. Neither do we know if that artificial singularity power source is used in all starship classes of the Romulan Star Empire.

We are also talking about a ship class, the D'deridex, that was in operation during the late 24th century. A lot of things happened between the end of the Dominion War and the Burn. Beginning with the destruction of Romulus and Remus, which caused the fall of the Empire. The Romulans may not have been able to produce artificial singularities anymore. For all we know, the warbirds we see in Picard may all be powered by M/AM reactors. Or the Romulans may have simply abandoned the singularity engine because it had strategic flaws. It cannot produce enough energy to power the warp core above a certain warp speed without causing damage. It cannot be shut down. A damaged engine will cause the complete destruction of the ship (it's a mini black hole ready to swallow the whole ship, afterall). The fact the Romulans were the only great power to use it also shows that it was not that great. Starfleet did not use it, neither were the Klingons, nor the Cardassians, not even the Dominion, a millenary empire. So the UFP may have chosen not to use singularity engines to replace its traditional warp engines because of their flaws.

Now you will say that the writers are bad because they did not explain that. They don't need to explain it. They don't have to cater to nitpickers. They don't have to go through minute and boring technicalities and clutter the dialogues with technobabble if they don't serve the story. All we have to know is that the UFP, the Ni'Varans (which include Romulans) and the Emerald Chain are not stupid. If none of them chose to use the old 24th century Romulan technology, it's because it was not suitable or feasible. The End.

[SoundOfGuns]

Also have you ever seen A D'deridex class destroyed? They don't implode. Stop making shit out to try and weasel out of being wrong.

I mean out of fairniss, they do fold into themselves when the singularity falls apart or they flat out vanish out of existence, which has been stated is the same cause and mostly movie-tech, according to STOs creators and while STO is not really fully canon, this is one of those facts they were given to take over from canon. Not like it matters. He is still wrong on multiple points in his post. Again, in canon work alone the D'deridex is not unique in its usage of a singularity core (its also not exactly larger than a Galaxy-Class but whatever).

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Which is very, very trek-like..

I mean... suuuure? But... im sure you agree there is... a lot of nuance to consider here, if you refer to the cases in TOS when "a kid gets godly powers"... you can not compare those cases too well. There is no logical explanation for it. Even the TOS example i dont recall the name of at least had a reason behind it. In Discovery it was just "Yea he is because lol". It makes no sense in any context tho. Dilithium has no psychological properties and Kelpians are also not implied to be particularly "intunable" to items like this. Even if this was the fact, Dilithium would still have to be in some kind of network like the spores... which it is not. So as much as there is a mystery which was interesting for a while, really, it just came apart at the seams for the same reason most of discovery does; There is no real thought in the solution, its just about the JJ-Mystery Box, which is what did not serve the new Movies too well and definitely broke Star Wars.

Someone has an idea. This idea is neat. So it's thrown in. How it works, how it would have to connect to other parts of the universe and the story, how this can be feasable, so on is not considered. Its like building an entire skyscraper because you as an architect got a good idea for floor 105 but the other 104 floors are made of wet cardboard.

[Frontenac]

I mean out of fairniss, they do fold into themselves when the singularity falls apart or they flat out vanish out of existence, which has been stated is the same cause and mostly movie-tech, according to STOs creators and while STO is not really fully canon, this is one of those facts they were given to take over from canon. Not like it matters. He is still wrong on multiple points in his post. Again, in canon work alone the D'deridex is not unique in its usage of a singularity core (its also not exactly larger than a Galaxy-Class but whatever).

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I mean... suuuure? But... im sure you agree there is... a lot of nuance to consider here, if you refer to the cases in TOS when "a kid gets godly powers"... you can not compare those cases too well. There is no logical explanation for it. Even the TOS example i dont recall the name of at least had a reason behind it. In Discovery it was just "Yea he is because lol".

Obviously, there was an explanation, since you then proceed to destroy it. There's an explanation. You just don't like it. Big difference.

It makes no sense in any context tho. Dilithium has no psychological properties

Psychology has nothing to do about it. It was the frequency of Su'kal's scream that put the dilithium crystals into resonnance. Which is a quite physical propriety.

and Kelpians are also not implied to be particularly "intunable" to items like this.

The fact that Su'kal is Kelpian has nothing to do with it. He could have been human or klingon, it would have been the same. The "attunement" was done because his foetus developped in that environment.

Even if this was the fact, Dilithium would still have to be in some kind of network like the spores... which it is not.

They are linked through subspace.

So as much as there is a mystery which was interesting for a while, really, it just came apart at the seams for the same reason most of discovery does; There is no real thought in the solution, its just about the JJ-Mystery Box, which is what did not serve the new Movies too well and definitely broke Star Wars.

That was not any worse than a lot of technobabble solution they've found in previous series. I mean, the shear number of things you can do with the deflector dish, or with tachyons, or terion pulse, or with reversing the shield's polarity or what not...

[Glorious Leader]

Which is very, very trek-like.

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To be fair, we are all speculating here, even you. We do not know how Romulan warp engines were build. Yes, they are powered by an artificial black hole, but that does not mean that dilithium is not needed somewhere else for other uses than regulating M/AM reactions. For all we know, M/AM reactions may be used to produce the artificial singularities. Because it's not because the Romulans use an artificial singularities for their ships that they don't use M/AM reactors elsewhere to power factories, space stations, residences, laboratories, etc. Neither do we know if that artificial singularity power source is used in all starship classes of the Romulan Star Empire.

We are also talking about a ship class, the D'deridex, that was in operation during the late 24th century. A lot of things happened between the end of the Dominion War and the Burn. Beginning with the destruction of Romulus and Remus, which caused the fall of the Empire. The Romulans may not have been able to produce artificial singularities anymore. For all we know, the warbirds we see in Picard may all be powered by M/AM reactors. Or the Romulans may have simply abandoned the singularity engine because it had strategic flaws. It cannot produce enough energy to power the warp core above a certain warp speed without causing damage. It cannot be shut down. A damaged engine will cause the complete destruction of the ship (it's a mini black hole ready to swallow the whole ship, afterall). The fact the Romulans were the only great power to use it also shows that it was not that great. Starfleet did not use it, neither were the Klingons, nor the Cardassians, not even the Dominion, a millenary empire. So the UFP may have chosen not to use singularity engines to replace its traditional warp engines because of their flaws.

Now you will say that the writers are bad because they did not explain that. They don't need to explain it. They don't have to cater to nitpickers. They don't have to go through minute and boring technicalities and clutter the dialogues with technobabble if they don't serve the story. All we have to know is that the UFP, the Ni'Varans (which include Romulans) and the Emerald Chain are not stupid. If none of them chose to use the old 24th century Romulan technology, it's because it was not suitable or feasible. The End.

Except its really really not. Yea yea trelane yea yea Charlie x. Neither of them felt as ridiculous as kid has affinity for dilithium, cries and blows up the galaxy. Its dumb, about as dumb as spore drive. Does he cry into subspace? does his cry ignore causality? does all the dilithium blow up at the same time?

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So by this logic TOS isn't Star Trek either, given that an entire episode is solely about a child's temper tantrum.

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The first few episodes were kinda meh for me, but when I got to the Harry Mudd time-loop episode it all kicked in and I've loved it since.

If the entire season of TOS revolved around trelane blowing up the federation on a temper tantrum you would have a point. Actually not just the entire season the future episodes of the show as well will more or less revolve around this. It was a nice mystery but a complete let down.

[Frontenac]

Except its really really not. Yea yea trelane yea yea Charlie x. Neither of them felt as ridiculous as kid has affinity for dilithium, cries and blows up the galaxy. Its dumb, about as dumb as spore drive. Does he cry into subspace? does his cry ignore causality? does all the dilithium blow up at the same time?

The dilithium did not explode. It went inert. Which means that the matter-antimatter reaction in the warp core was not regulated anymore. Which means that the ships that were into warp exploded. And no, it did not happen at the same time. It spread out from the dilithium planet. Did you even watch the show, or are you like some around here who have an opinion based on what they have heard others say about it?

[Glorious Leader]

The dilithium did not explode. It went inert. Which means that the matter-antimatter reaction in the warp core was not regulated anymore. Which means that the ships that were into warp exploded. And no, it did not happen at the same time. It spread out from the dilithium planet. Did you even watch the show, or are you like some around here who have an opinion based on what they have heard others say about it?

Semantics. For all intents and purposes his crying blew up all those starship until they figured it out. How did his "cry" propagate across the galaxy? By what mechanism did he "attune" with dilithium? Why is this literally the first time this has happened despite fucking millenia of warp capable ships?

[Frontenac]

Semantics. For all intents and purposes his crying blew up all those starship until they figured it out. How did his "cry" propagate across the galaxy? By what mechanism did he "attune" with dilithium? Why is this literally the first time this has happened despite fucking millenia of warp capable ships?

This is not semantics at all. Dilithium either blew up, or it didn't. It didn't.

Star Trek is full of things that are unexplained, begining with the warp core. Dilithium does not exist. There is no reason for now that a crystal is able, under force fields, to regulate the flow of matter and antimatter interacting in its crystalline lattice. It's all fantasy created in the mind of the writers. Or the transporters. We know that it's all based on matter-energy conversion. But how a ray of energy can transfer all the essence of a person by translating it into data in a computer memory, disintegrate it without that person suffering the torments of Hell, and then reintegrate it kilometers away with no mistake? How can you travel through time by flying close around the Sun in warp speed? Why did Gary Mitchell became a demi-god just because he went over the galactic barrier? How does a positronic brain work? Why are positrons better than electrons?

As for how Su'kal attuned with the dilithium, well I will repeat what the show says: Su'kal's foetus grew up in an environment rich in radiation coming from that dilithium and it adapted. How did his cry propagate through the galaxy? It was because the frequency of his scream matched the resonnant frequency of dilithium. Since there was a massive amount of dilithium and because dilithium has a subspace component, the shockwave caused by Su'kal scream travel through subspace and affected refined dilithium everywhere. Now, is it a huge chunk to swallow? Yes. Is it a huge chain of coincidences that created a world-changing cataclysm? Yes. The history of the Universe is full of those, probably beginning with our own existence. Is it esoteric technobabble? Yes it is, like a lot of technobabble we have heard before. And to be honest, Discovery is the show that relies the least on technobabble in all this franchise, to which they have my deepest gratitude.

And really, you have no data (neither do I) that such an event never occured before in a greater or smaller scale. They could still write it...

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Its really not Star Trek. Its action show in space. Like I thought the burn was a neat mystery and then you find out is caused by a kids temper tantrum...

Exactly. When I first heard of it my mind raced with was it some new race.. or a weapon.. or a science experiment gone wrong..

but..

No.. a ship crashed and a kid saw his mom died and flipped out and somehow he was genetically linked to rocks on the planet that made all the rocks like it besides on the planet blow up. Well least most of them.

Really...

[Biomega]

How does a positronic brain work? Why are positrons better than electrons?

This has nothing to do with science, it's an homage to Isaac Asimov. He pioneered robots in mainstream SF and gave them positronic brains because positrons were something relatively new and mysterious (discovered less than 10 years before he first wrote these stories), a kind of "anti-electricity". This was before WW2 mind you so nuclear power/weapons weren't mainstream yet - otherwise they may well have ended up with nuclear brains (just how Asimov's later Foundation work explains pretty much EVERYTHING with nuclear power).

In any event, scientific accuracy was never really that big in ST. They handwave or technobabble away a lot of things, often quite wrongly. What it all comes down to isn't so much about scientific accuracy as it is about compelling storytelling. Is the explanation SATISFYING much more so than it being sound, or even possible. That's a subjective decision, of course. For some people, scientific plausibility may well enter into this. For others, it doesn't matter that much. But there's no doubt that some things are more "out there" than others - 'god' living in the center of the galaxy, intergalactic whale sounds, and secret mushroom networks are quite a different animal from transporter beams, cloaking devices, or wormholes.

[Aurosh]

Exactly. When I first heard of it my mind raced with was it some new race.. or a weapon.. or a science experiment gone wrong..

but..

No.. a ship crashed and a kid saw his mom died and flipped out and somehow he was genetically linked to rocks on the planet that made all the rocks like it besides on the planet blow up. Well least most of them.

Really...

Sounds like Star Trek. Really. In TOS, Kirk and Enterprise just time travel to the 20th century as if it is something they do every now and then.

A superweapon isnt really Star Trek. Never was.

[Mihalik]

sip
..

Most technobable is meant to explain away relatively small scale plot elements.

Like how does this thing go faster than light?

What powers this thing? Etc.

The issue with The Burn is scale related. It seems to be a massive galaxy wide phenomenon (or beyond?) that fundamentally alters the established workings of things. But it does so poorly, furthermore due the sheer scale of the event you'd expect it to be a primary plot point, not making it so is not a surprise plot twist, it's just odd.

Take how The Burn was framed in the first 4 episodes. There were hints intrigue especially with the character of Kronenberg, deep political and social implications etc. While these things were there, they were ultimately largely ignored.

Sukal just seems like a plot contrivance rather than a key plot element. It seems to me that the original Burn plot was something different and was tied to either the Temporal War or the Mirror Universe, than halfway through the season they chose to go a different direction.

Which would explain how the Mirror Universe and the The Burn plotlines were set up to be intertwined but then ended up being resolved separately.

[Ara Myrr]

And to be honest, Discovery is the show that relies the least on technobabble in all this franchise, to which they have my deepest gratitude.

See, that's one of the problems this show has.

It takes no time to explain things beyond the minimum needed to move the plot along.

Even if the technobabble has no real value in RL terms it can give viewers a sense of understanding of how and why it happened.

In the older series this was often presented in the sense of "This works the way it does, because... [insert technobabbly here]

Discovery often opts for the minimal for the sake of moving it all along and only goes "Because."

Talking, even if it's nonsensical gibberish can be just as enjoyable to watch if presented well then just another action scene.

Carl & Kovich are probably my favourite characters this season because of that, they just talk. Everyone else (barring Saru, and Vance to a lesser extent) has an intensity to them, like they're in a constant hurry to get somewhere.

[Ivanstone]

Sounds like Star Trek. Really. In TOS, Kirk and Enterprise just time travel to the 20th century as if it is something they do every now and then.

A superweapon isnt really Star Trek. Never was.

There's been plenty of superweapons in Trek. But you're trying to do things at all levels in Trek. From near-omnipotent beings to the merits of replicated Kali-Fal.