Top End guilds quitting

[Nephcyte]

The guilds (correct me if i missed anyone)

Exorsus going casual
From Scratch going casual
Serenity disbanded
Piecies
Midwinter
Ðanish Terrace stopped raiding

Since Serenity is a hot topic right now i wonder what is the most common confirmed issue from those players/guilds that made them go casual or stop in general.

Is it the AP/Legendary system grind for mains, alts (switching alt to the main because better legendary has dropped.)
Which causes general burnout while chasing ap/leg goals and feeling behind and under pressure more then ever because its a race. Compared to previous exp if u play less.

Or is it the feeling of being unrewarded for doing more content and not being in control like someone who did 500 dungeons and 8 legendaries collected not having BiS legendary while some newbie getting it as his 1st one. And of course feeling unrewarded from doing mythic which only provides 900-905 gear and 910 from Guldan. While u can get 905 from weekly chest. And a much higher chance of TitanForge from spamming m+.

Or maybe the most unfair thing people getting 925 Titanforges from LFR, NM etc with 0 effort, while mythic raiders spend countless hours progressing bosses and getting lesser reward.

P.S. Do you think the fact that top guilds are quitting (and this is a blow to wow raiding community) will be a wake up call for Blizzard that their system has some serious flaws or are they just going to ignore that since this is only top end guilds problems who make 0.0001% of player base.

Update 1

As Tradu mentioned below:
Top guilds disbanding doesn't directly impact the rest of the raiding community, but the reasons for the top guilds disbanding/going casual are the same ones that have caused a lot of issues for guilds at all levels. Essentially it's not the top guilds causing it, but they're just more obvious examples of issues that exist in Legion raiding in general.

As for Exorsus they said it in several interviews that are not gonna try to compete for r1 race anymore since it takes way to much effort with ap grind etc.

http://raiders-tavern.com/exorsus-di...casual-201702/

Full interview where Exorsus mentiones issues i described. https://www.method.gg/undisputed-t19...rsus-interview

[Emerald Archer]

In Serenity, it was just in guild issues. Stop trying to pin it on Blizzard issues. Someone rage quit because his GUILDIES pissed him off, he didn't come back, he's going somewhere else, so the guild naturally disbanded and most of their raiders are going to CONTINUE to raid, in other guilds.

It wasn't burn out, or lack of rewards. Trying to say that TF is a reasonable reason for quitting is a joke, any top raiders that upset about it, need to suck it up.

[Cheze]

they don't design game systems around guilds playing at the extreme high end; this is true of raid encounters and I'm sure it's true of such as m+, AP farm, etc.

[MoanaLisa]

P.S. Do you think the fact that top guilds are quitting (and this is a huge blow to wow community) will be a wake up call for Blizzard that their system has some serious flaws or are they just going to ignore that since this is only top end guilds problems who make 0.0001% of player base.

Guilds are like bands and likely to fly apart at any time. Personally I don't believe that well-known guilds breaking up and quitting has much of an effect on the raiding community at all. People do what they do. It's none of Blizzard's affair to try and keep top end guilds together if they don't want to be together any longer.

[Rockerjompa]

When did Exorsus go casual?

[Marrilaife]

I'd wager it's the fact it's not so profitable anymore, sponsors moved to other "e-sports", there's only few pvers who live from streaming, rl money boosting is under higher scrutiny from Blizzard (allegedly), youtube video making also becomes less and less profitable over years, what's the incentive to treat wow like a job if there's no payment and what's the incentive to treat world first race as a sport if there are no medals or prizes.

The attitudes shift more and more from "can we do it" towards "why should we do it and what for".

You can win tangible prizes for being "the best team" in Overwatch, HOTS or WOW 3v3 arena pvp. WOW pve? Not much to gain there except 5 mins of fleeting fame.

[Super Kami Dende]

I've never really cared if top guilds disband. It has zero relevance to if I am or am not enjoying WoW.

[GKLeatherCraft]

Well what a load of rubbish lol, It's not Blizz's fault, Plus, most of these people have been doing this for years, chances are they just don't want to any more, Oh and "this is a huge blow to wow community" No, No it is not, It's pretty much nothing to the WoW community, Let's not be silly, Reading that line I thought this was a Jaylock thread.

[ShaanuJaanu]

I think Blizzard either doesn't care or actually dislikes the way top end guilds play. They cause more trouble than they are worth for them imo.

Turn over in WoW will always be high, unlike other E-sports, Raiding at the highest level in WoW doesnt net you any monetary value. You are raiding for prestige and are not bound by contracts or anything like that.

That said, keeping up alts this expension is a PITA, back then you used to be able to bring alts to gear up once your main has gear. Now you have to grind AP/Legendaries on your alts as well as main. This system is great if you have one toon, you have a lot of re-playbility and the game rewards you for it, but when you have to do it on 3-4 characters, it becomes a grind. I think this is intentional on blizzard's part to discourage multiple raids etc that the top end guilds have been doing in the past.

Couple in with the fact that almost all the top end guilds REQUIRE you to have multiple characters, game becomes a job albeit without the pay.

[Cheze]

yeah it seems like barely a raid tier goes by without 'XYZ highend guild broke up, is this the end?' sorts of posts

ffs if you don't like the game just stop playing

[Nephcyte]

In Serenity, it was just in guild issues. Stop trying to pin it on Blizzard issues. Someone rage quit because his GUILDIES pissed him off, he didn't come back, he's going somewhere else, so the guild naturally disbanded and most of their raiders are going to CONTINUE to raid, in other guilds.

It wasn't burn out, or lack of rewards. Trying to say that TF is a reasonable reason for quitting is a joke, any top raiders that upset about it, need to suck it up.

In Serenity yes, and I am aware that guilds just fall apart due to human factor and leadership/communication problems, someone just quit due to IRL.

But do you really think that is the only reason this time around and Blizzards system has nothing to do with it. That it is all just a coincidence that top end guilds who have been together for 5-10 yeah consistently worlds best just fell apart due to human factor.

Raiders themselves reported that it is harder to compete in race for world 1st just due the ap/leg system and feeling behind others if u grind less.

Sure some will stay and reform but the fact that so many raiders declined the grind system necessary to compete in the race means nothing?

[Tradu]

In Serenity, it was just in guild issues. Stop trying to pin it on Blizzard issues. Someone rage quit because his GUILDIES pissed him off, he didn't come back, he's going somewhere else, so the guild naturally disbanded and most of their raiders are going to CONTINUE to raid, in other guilds.

It wasn't burn out, or lack of rewards. Trying to say that TF is a reasonable reason for quitting is a joke, any top raiders that upset about it, need to suck it up.

No, they don't need to just suck it up. They have every right to complain about a system they think is bullshit, and even quit over it if they want.

[Puri]

I am fairly certain it has nothing to do with actual current ingame changes, but the revenues generated by sponsors or the fame from streaming no longer make up for the invested time. Just the way it goes with a 12+ year old game.

I also don't get your two paragraphs about legendaries. This was relevant half a year ago, I don't think there is anyone at the top guild that does not yet have all even on their alts.

[ls-]

You overestimate the impact of this, it's kinda normal thing, it happens all the time. And majority of playersbase doesn't really care.

I think Blizzard either doesn't care or actually dislikes the way top end guilds play. They cause more trouble than they are worth for them imo.

And this. Ion even said that game isn't meant to be played the way high end guilds do. Blizz doesn't support WF race, CMs don't put in on their first page either, they nearly never mention it.

Balancing your game around needs of people who like hardcore raiding and only hardcore raiding is quite bad for the game.

-- edit #1

And lastly, I said it many times, but if you have necessary skills to be either a pro streamer or a pro gamer or even both, why even waste your time playing the game that has no competitive scene whatsoever? There's much better alternatives made by other companies and by Blizzard.

[Tradu]

I am fairly certain it has nothing to do with actual current ingame changes, but the revenues generated by sponsors or the fame from streaming no longer make up for the invested time. Just the way it goes with a 12+ year old game.

I also don't get your two paragraphs about legendaries. This was relevant half a year ago, I don't think there is anyone at the top guild that does not yet have all even on their alts.

The first part of what you said makes absolutely no sense. Streaming revenue is much higher now than in the past, hence why more people do it. There have never been any rewards/profits from competing for world first, it's just prestige. And people definitely did burn out from all the grinding required in Legion, claiming anything else is just insane.

[AzazeltheRuthless]

When did Exorsus go casual?

After they killed Gul'dan that night Alveona did an interview and said the guild discussed after they got the world first, that they didn't want to keep the hours to be a top end guild anymore.

[Rafoel]

I think Blizzard either doesn't care or actually dislikes the way top end guilds play. They cause more trouble than they are worth for them imo.

Does ANYONE actually like the way top guilds play (14 hours of raid per day with short food breaks, months of prep with min/maxing of 7 different characters), including the people who play in them?

[Nephcyte]

I am fairly certain it has nothing to do with actual current ingame changes, but the revenues generated by sponsors or the fame from streaming no longer make up for the invested time. Just the way it goes with a 12+ year old game.

I also don't get your two paragraphs about legendaries. This was relevant half a year ago, I don't think there is anyone at the top guild that does not yet have all even on their alts.

Yeah the legendaries isnt that much of an issue anymore since NH, but it was like that in EN, ToV and start on NH

[FelPlague]

Guilds are like bands and likely to fly apart at any time. Personally I don't believe that well-known guilds breaking up and quitting has much of an effect on the raiding community at all. People do what they do. It's none of Blizzard's affair to try and keep top end guilds together if they don't want to be together any longer.

Welcome back to mod status
(or have i just gone crazy? idk)

and agreed, the top 0.01% does not dictate the other 99.9%

[Aggrophobic]

The harder parts of WoW are just not as rewarding as they used to but require way more time and luck to do.
Of course people are leaving. It's just not fun.