Top End guilds quitting

[Kuruption]

The 10 vs 25 debate still lives on!

[Gilgameshh]

The problem isn't 20 people; it's the fact that raiding has become a boring grind with no true end because of WF/TF and multiple difficulties.

If Blizzard wasn't lazy or had more resources (or both), they'd make a true effort to balance three difficulties, not four. LFR should have even worse gear than it currently drops. There should be other content to gear up people who claim they "just want to see the content they pay for." Normal and heroic should be combined into one singular difficulty that focuses SOLELY on the portion of the player base who is likely never going to touch mythic raiding (and tier sets that only have power in that difficulty). Mythic raiding should be accessible from day 1 of the expansion for those who have farmed the best gear from dungeons/other means of gear acquisition. No one should have to grind one difficulty just to get to another.

None of the loot from dungeons should WF/TF to the power of mythic raid gear, but the highest difficulty dungeons should give reasonably similar loot to the normal/heroic raid (to prepare people for mythic raiding when the raid opens). None of the lower raid difficulty gear should WF/TF to equal or surpass mythic raid gear. Mythic raid gear should not WF/TF at all.

The difficulty of mythic raiding is something else to look at. No, the content is not that difficult for the best individual players, but it IS difficult for a GROUP of GOOD players. The idea of raiding with people you enjoy playing with should be much higher on the list of priorities for raid developers. The player base is shrinking and, as a result, the pool of mythic raiders is shrinking. Having multiple difficulties pulls people from mythic raiding. What you're left with is a difficulty in mythic that simply cannot be overcome by the majority of people playing in it -- and that's a poor design choice.

Raiding itself is a niche within the game; to have a niche for MYTHIC raiding that caters to the smallest percentage of raiders ever is baffling to me. In an attempt to appease every single type of player, they have made raiding stale and repetitive. You cannot bring people to carry in your raid anymore; each player has to be outstanding if you want to clear a mythic raid. That might be fun to some minority of people, but I bet the majority of mythic raiders wouldn't mind higher DPS checks in the place of overwhelming amounts of mechanics that lead to overwhelming amounts of personal responsibility.

As someone who has ranked in the top 100 PvPers in the world in WotLK and ranked more 99-100th percentile parses than I could ever count, I DO believe the mythic difficulty is too difficult in terms of personal responsibility. Just throwing this out there to combat the inevitable, "Get good, moron; this difficulty isn't for you."

I don't know who the hell enjoys raiding anymore, but I really miss the times when I could just play with a group that consisted mostly of people I actually wanted to play with. I miss being able to take a breath and stand there mashing my buttons without having to move every 3 seconds (give me freedom to go full DPS on the move and I might retract that). I miss not having to grind multiple difficulties for weeks on end, just to be able to enter the same raid on a higher difficulty with the same loot table. I miss the experience of moving from one boss to another, discovering new parts of the layout I haven't seen yet, instead of plowing through a lower difficulty and seeing everything the raid has to offer right away; it kills the experience. That gradual, yet meaningful grind has been lacking from the game outside of raiding, too.

I fully expect my wishes to be unfulfilled, because I really don't think Blizzard has their finger on the pulse of the raiding or PvP communities anymore.

[Deleted]

Yes, exactly. I was even fine with 25-man getting a 1/2 tier higher ilevel gear to drop. People want 10-man raiding, whether people want to believe it or not. Restricting the highest difficulty of raiding in the game to a fixed roster size of 20 people is a step backwards, and if there aren't any changes to that in the next expansion, I'm not even going to buy it.

Hmm, Bye-bye then, I guess...

Restricting the highest level of difficulty to one fixed raid size is the only logical alternative to actually fully tuning a raid encounter to every single raid size that it can flex to. It gives the developers the opportunity to make fights that push everyone to the limit without making a fight unbeatable.

If you made that flex, then people would find out the ideal number of people that would make the fight the easiest and that would then quickly become the new de-facto "fixed" raid size anyway.

It's fine in the lower difficulty settings because encounters aren't (and shouldn't be) tuned to the max there anyway.

[Trapped]

Hmm, Bye-bye then, I guess...

Restricting the highest level of difficulty to one fixed raid size is the only logical alternative to actually fully tuning a raid encounter to every single raid size that it can flex to. It gives the developers the opportunity to make fights that push everyone to the limit without making a fight unbeatable.

If you made that flex, then people would find out the ideal number of people that would make the fight the easiest and that would then quickly become the new de-facto "fixed" raid size anyway.

It's fine in the lower difficulty settings because encounters aren't (and shouldn't be) tuned to the max there anyway.

I never suggested making the highest difficulty flexible. I said I preferred it when it was 10 and 25. Flexible sizing has its benefits for pugs and F+F guilds, sure.

[Simmias]

Word around the water cooler is Limit has gathered up the needed accounts and should be good for WF. It's over before it even started ROFL

imagine if u.s guilds used their 10 hour + lead and come through for once.

I mean it won't happen but it'd be hilarious watching the forum nerds cry about it.

[tikcol]

It's always fun watching the plebs discussing the big boys

[BrioWoW]

imagine if u.s guilds used their 10 hour + lead and come through for once.

I mean it won't happen but it'd be hilarious watching the forum nerds cry about it.

Limit is going to be surprising a lot of people this tier, including their wf KJ.

[Jimson]

Limit is going to be surprising a lot of people this tier, including their wf KJ.

If Limit pulls off WF KJ, there will be very few people who aren't surprised. Limit themselves probably don't believe they have a great shot at it.