Rank 52 - Concordance of the Legionfall - Not a huge buff?

[Deleted]

I tried simming my character both now and with 2 more ranks ; aka Concordance of the Legionfall.

It doesnt show up as more than a 10-15.000 dps increase. When we are in the 8-900.000's, it doesnt seem like a big deal.


Would i be better off levelling my Unholy weapon instead?

[The Oblivion]

i got concordance and switched to the next spec, not worth doing till i atleast have concord on all specs, then ill just keep alternating them, its such a small gain afterall

[gushDH]

No, first reach the 52th rank, then go for offspecs. It's a descent dps increase

[Jellospally]

Yes that is how 2k main stat works. It averages about 25% uptime with main stat being worth what it is on most classes its about a 1 to 1.5% increase(favoring classes with % main stat buffs like frost dk) and every point after being worth 1/10th of the first rank. So everything is .1 to .15% increase.

Also, if you look at the cost of a 39 > 52 wep vs 52 > 54. its the same AP(give or take a couple 100m) so you are better off finishing a 2nd wep then going back to w/e you want to play.

[Feuerbart]

So 15k dps is nothing now? That´s 900k damage a minute. Most single updates you can get in a raid are much less but still many people obsess about those.

Just for the sake of math let´s say you have 15 items. So your 900k dps is 60k per item on average. So you would need an itemupgrade do be 125% the worth of your equipped item to be worth as much as concordance. Most of the time the upgrade on my items as shown by pawn is lower then 10% mostyl 1-4%.

I wouldn´t call concordance huge but it definitely was felt in my fist raid with it.

[Irian]

It's a proc that's decent. It's like having a lesser third trinket slot with no secondaries. You're not going to write home about or anything (it's estimated for most classes to be a roughly 1-2% increase depending on proc luck) it's free damage boost with no stipulations and probably a bigger increase than most of your single trait increases.

I'd say just go for it and then go to your offspec artifacts after you've reached the single rank.

[Slicer299]

I tried simming my character both now and with 2 more ranks ; aka Concordance of the Legionfall.

It doesnt show up as more than a 10-15.000 dps increase. When we are in the 8-900.000's, it doesnt seem like a big deal.


Would i be better off levelling my Unholy weapon instead?

This is by design, if you followed anything the developers have said about Artifacts and AP in 7.2, you would know this. The final trait in 7.1 and 7.1.5 created too large of a power gap between the players who had it and the players who didn't. Both from a Pve and a PvP standpoint. It also broke the tuning of Nighthold as it was expected that players have their Artifact maxed out to complete the later bosses on Mythic difficulty. If the majority of the raid didn't have their Artifact maxed, there was no real way to get past the first 4 bosses.

That "need" to have Artifact weapons maxed out had several negative secondary effects. Mythic+ was treated as nothing more than an AP farm, instead of strictly the supplemental gear source it's intended to serve as. People farmed Maw of Souls hundreds of times to max those artifact weapons to compete in world first races, and every other tryhard guild set the same expectation. The top raiders in the world have their weapons maxed, so should you.

It also meant off specs and alts were ignored, because so much additional time had to be dedicated farming AP on mains. Even when people did play their off specs, they suffered from the same need for AP as they did with their main spec. So in 7.2 they made the final trait little more than an AP dump/bank. Reaching it will be important for unlocking your class mount, and that applies to all specs to unlock off color variations if you want them. But after that you no longer need to farm AP any more if you don't want to. But if you choose to, and to give you something for the AP you acquire passively, you'll continue to be able to marginally increase the amount of the proc it gives you.

We will see another refresh in 7.3, and just like in 7.2, the people who spend more AP now will be slightly ahead of everyone else after that refresh. Just like people who went into 7.2 with maxed out artifacts had an extra couple of points to spend than people who didn't.

[Puri]

So 15k dps is nothing now? That´s 900k damage a minute. Most single updates you can get in a raid are much less but still many people obsess about those.

Just for the sake of math let´s say you have 15 items. So your 900k dps is 60k per item on average. So you would need an itemupgrade do be 125% the worth of your equipped item to be worth as much as concordance. Most of the time the upgrade on my items as shown by pawn is lower then 10% mostyl 1-4%.

I wouldn´t call concordance huge but it definitely was felt in my fist raid with it.

When you are doing 900k dps, and then get an increase of 15k, that means your damage increased by ~1.7%. Which would be in the lower half of your estimated 1-4% per item. So yes, it means a single item upgrade might be better than the proc.

[Constraint]

What I don't understand is all the randoms (not expressly in this thread just yet) who are so adamant that "AP grinding is no longer necessary" etc etc etc since Concordance is so weak etc.

Yeah. It is when the difference is 3-4 points vs 0 points.

When the months drag on, and the AP knowledge cap's in place for a while, try saying that then, when you're competing against people with 30+ points in Concordance and you're still on 10. The difference will be massive, and the time spent to get it to that stage will be extraordinary. And we'll have the same problem we did earlier, where people will be shunned if they haven't partaken in the colossal grind to get to that level.

It's not rocket science or advanced mathematics; just people are, for the most part, very short-sighted.

[Xkiller9000]

10-15k dps increase is a nice increase- lets say m krosus, 2 tanks 4 heals, ignore them, 19 dps @ 12500 dps each = 237,500 raid dps, thats huge

[Rogalicus]

When the months drag on, and the AP knowledge cap's in place for a while, try saying that then, when you're competing against people with 30+ points in Concordance and you're still on 10. The difference will be massive, and the time spent to get it to that stage will be extraordinary. And we'll have the same problem we did earlier, where people will be shunned if they haven't partaken in the colossal grind to get to that level.

This situation is impossible, because AK growth stops, but AP cost of further traits keeps increasing at the same rate. People already did the math, it will take you something like 10 years of running MoS+15 every 10 minutes to cap Concordance with AK50.

[Puri]

When the months drag on, and the AP knowledge cap's in place for a while, try saying that then, when you're competing against people with 30+ points in Concordance and you're still on 10. The difference will be massive, and the time spent to get it to that stage will be extraordinary. And we'll have the same problem we did earlier, where people will be shunned if they haven't partaken in the colossal grind to get to that level.

It's not rocket science or advanced mathematics; just people are, for the most part, very short-sighted.

Yes, unless they further increase AK with 7.2.5, which would be logical or they would repeat the same mistake they did when AK25 was max and said they want to avoid.

[niil945]

What I don't understand is all the randoms (not expressly in this thread just yet) who are so adamant that "AP grinding is no longer necessary" etc etc etc since Concordance is so weak etc.

Yeah. It is when the difference is 3-4 points vs 0 points.

When the months drag on, and the AP knowledge cap's in place for a while, try saying that then, when you're competing against people with 30+ points in Concordance and you're still on 10. The difference will be massive, and the time spent to get it to that stage will be extraordinary. And we'll have the same problem we did earlier, where people will be shunned if they haven't partaken in the colossal grind to get to that level.

It's not rocket science or advanced mathematics; just people are, for the most part, very short-sighted.

Not true at all. Let me put it this way. You can spend time farming but each point sets you back that much further due to the cost increase of the next point, whereas if someone waits for the next rank of AK they can do one or two world quests and catch up to all that work you did to make the point up at a lower AK level. That's kinda the point though. They didn't want people to feel forced to farm AP. Due to the way that AK works, doing a minimal amount of in game AP farming will keep you in the range that's comparable to everyone else. And if you don't farm AP at all, due to the way the AK and costs scale, you can easily catch back up to everyone else as long as you keep your AK rolling. Essentially, each rank of AK has a window of points you can easily farm but if you go over that you're wasting your time. If you fall behind it's trivial to get back into that range. At least to AK 50. I haven't looked at the charts of AP % modifier for AK 50 versus the increasing cost to see, but my bet is it'll function like a softcap where getting beyond that just isn't worth the return to try to farm it.

[Puri]

When the months drag on, and the AP knowledge cap's in place for a while, try saying that then, when you're competing against people with 30+ points in Concordance and you're still on 10. The difference will be massive, and the time spent to get it to that stage will be extraordinary. And we'll have the same problem we did earlier, where people will be shunned if they haven't partaken in the colossal grind to get to that level.

It's not rocket science or advanced mathematics; just people are, for the most part, very short-sighted.

And just to add: It would never be near as bad as it was with the multiplicator we had pre 7.2. It's a main stat proc, that means the damage it adds hardly scales with gear. Someone with itemlevel 890 will profit about the same from the proc as someone with itemlevel 930 (which was different before).
And then you have to consider the low scaling: Someone with the full 50 points will do about 5-7% more damage than someone with 1 point in it, realistically we talk about 1-2% difference between someone who (actively) farms AP vs someone who does not. That's completely neglibile, any gear proc might give more.

[KaPe]

10-15k dps increase is a nice increase- lets say m krosus, 2 tanks 4 heals, ignore them, 19 dps @ 12500 dps each = 237,500 raid dps, thats huge

I'd say that being able to take 25 players to M Krosus is much bigger deal than Concordance.

[Meiffert]

When the months drag on, and the AP knowledge cap's in place for a while, try saying that then, when you're competing against people with 30+ points in Concordance and you're still on 10. The difference will be massive, and the time spent to get it to that stage will be extraordinary.
[...]
It's not rocket science or advanced mathematics; just people are, for the most part, very short-sighted.

If you are at 30+ while I am at 10, you will do about 2 or 3 percent more dps, which is not insignificant to be fair, it's about the same effect a flask has.

On the other hand, being 20 points ahead of me means that you farmed 190 times the amount of AP I did.
Somehow I am ok with that - if you do invest 190 times my effort into the game to do 2 % more dps, you probably deserve my raidspot.

[Bricktor]

Blizzard did say it wasn't supposed to be a huge buff. But on those fights where you wipe because your group's dps was slightly low, then it becomes useful. I say you get one weapon to 52 then you start maxing another one.

[Ichifails]

I'd say that being able to take 25 players to M Krosus is much bigger deal than Concordance.

Heh, I chuckled.

[Emerald Archer]

When the months drag on, and the AP knowledge cap's in place for a while, try saying that then, when you're competing against people with 30+ points in Concordance and you're still on 10. The difference will be massive, and the time spent to get it to that stage will be extraordinary. And we'll have the same problem we did earlier, where people will be shunned if they haven't partaken in the colossal grind to get to that level.

Use your head, do some math. The initial point is worth 0.8-1.5% dps. every trait after is worth 0.08-0.15% dps, 30 points after, is only worth 2.5%-4.5% dps. (Not to mention that to be 30 points behind, you'd have to be so crazy trash because of how AK works)

Realistically, someone "behind" would be about 10 traits behind, so 0.8%-1.5% dps, which is so insanely low. People won't become shunned for not farming, just don't totally give up on doing anything with AP gain. Chill with it, 1hr-2hrs a week where you do something that gets you AP. Done. You won't be too far behind.

It's not rocket science, or advanced mathematics; you just seem to like to over react.

For real man, unless your idea of a "grind" is spending 2hrs a week doing something you enjoy that also happens to reward ap, come off it. It's not a grind anymore. You get 52 in MS, then 52 in any OS you'll play, then slow roll points into your main. Do you know how AK works? Even if you barely play it'll keep you reasonably close.

[Deleted]

Yes, unless they further increase AK with 7.2.5, which would be logical or they would repeat the same mistake they did when AK25 was max and said they want to avoid.

THey won't increase AK at 7.2.5, you won't even have maxed out the current cap by then.

No, they have achieved their goal: a balanced playing field. All but the most casual players will have 52 points by the time ToS releases, any serious raider will have 52 points in all specs they play. Any points beyond 52 are largely negligible especially early on in ToS.

in 7.3 they will increase it again, and presumably add more traits too again, as a way to nerf ToS halfway trough the tier, just like in NH.