Assasination: The Emtpy Crown legendary

[shaunika123]

where do you get your 1.5%? Calculation or damage meter / parse? Because in my math the 2p19 proc is worth like 25 to 30 k dps in its nerfed state in ToS mythic gear (only the procc). If I switch the 2p19 set bonus (920) to run 2 offset items instead (935+940) I am loosing 15 to 20k dps, so the increased stats can not catch up the missing 2p19 (alacrity build, bracers, boots)

i said it was more like 2%(it was basically napkin i simmed myself with alacrity on live and multiplied the bleed dmg by 0.66 which came out to 2.1%)
but either way
the problem here is, that
a: you'll have to get 2 t19s roll 920 on the right slots, with right stats
b: even if you do that, the other t20 setpieces you'll be using will have suboptimal stats on it

in the end you'll end up with a bunch of haste items, and while it wont be that big of a loss than it used to, it's still gonna hurt
so yeah 2+4 will probably be good before you can get into all TF mythic items, but i dont think the high end gear will have it, unless it's really lucky rolls
and it wont be nearly as powerful as it wouldve been without the nerfs and with agonizing

[Deleted]

i said it was more like 2%(it was basically napkin i simmed myself with alacrity on live and multiplied the bleed dmg by 0.66 which came out to 2.1%)
but either way
the problem here is, that
a: you'll have to get 2 t19s roll 920 on the right slots, with right stats
b: even if you do that, the other t20 setpieces you'll be using will have suboptimal stats on it

in the end you'll end up with a bunch of haste items, and while it wont be that big of a loss than it used to, it's still gonna hurt
so yeah 2+4 will probably be good before you can get into all TF mythic items, but i dont think the high end gear will have it, unless it's really lucky rolls
and it wont be nearly as powerful as it wouldve been without the nerfs and with agonizing

hm its quite easy to dodge haste with all the options. There are currently only legendaries which can have haste on it (like the bracers and boots) and the T20 leggings which have low haste on it. To run T19 helm and T19 cloak is recommended, even on ilvl 905 its still a little bit stronger than to use 2 offset pieces out of ToS mythic. The best gear setup I have so far is going to break the 1150k mark. I guess with all clean values (incl new trinkets for example) we should not have any probs to break the 1200k mark. Unfortunately sub and outlaw are siming higher with an estimated dps value of 1375k each on average.

[shaunika123]

hm its quite easy to dodge haste with all the options. There are currently only legendaries which can have haste on it (like the bracers and boots) and the T20 leggings which have low haste on it. To run T19 helm and T19 cloak is recommended, even on ilvl 905 its still a little bit stronger than to use 2 offset pieces out of ToS mythic. The best gear setup I have so far is going to break the 1150k mark. I guess with all clean values (incl new trinkets for example) we should not have any probs to break the 1200k mark. Unfortunately sub and outlaw are siming higher with an estimated dps value of 1375k each on average.

they already are and assa is still the most played spec, sims arent always 100% equivalent of live performance
in fact sub was simming higher than assa basically the entirety of EN+TOV and yet still noone was playing it.

but yes, i was overestiamting the agility yoU'd get so if you got a decent cloak+helm then 2+4 will probably be best.

[Deleted]

When the shoulders were put on the ptr on 7.1.5 everybody on the forums here was making fun of how crap it would be, but it turned out to be the bis in all 3 specs. Wait it out, maybe the head will be better than it sounds at first, considering it could synergize well with that new talent that everybody already has decided to be utter shit...

[Socialhealer]

these numbers are certainly final and balanced, like the elemental one, where ele shamans might get 50 second of ascendance in 3 minutes if they're lucky while taking the talent will only give them 15 seconds.

i don't think a legendary is going to be three times stronger than a talent.

[crenix]

your only really getting 15 energy back anyways, since Kingsbane costs 35 energy to use in the first place.

[shaunika123]

your only really getting 15 energy back anyways, since Kingsbane costs 35 energy to use in the first place.

no
yoU're getting back 50
it's not like you wouldnt use kingsbane without the helm is it?

When the shoulders were put on the ptr on 7.1.5 everybody on the forums here was making fun of how crap it would be, but it turned out to be the bis in all 3 specs. Wait it out, maybe the head will be better than it sounds at first, considering it could synergize well with that new talent that everybody already has decided to be utter shit...

it's not bad at all
in fact it's a pretty good legendary
the problem is that it almost certainly wont be better than bracer+boots simply because you're also giving up the t19 bonus with that

oh and btw that new talent(if it remains like it is) is utter shit

[ScrubRouge]

Ever since I got the new golden trait reducing the CD on KB , I literarly don't have enough energy to pool and make the full use of it. Getting energy back from KB would smooth out the rotation and passively boost KB damage that way!

not to be a dick but if the reduced CD is forcing you to not have enough time to energy pool, it might be a user error? even after the debuff ends, there's at least 15 seconds before KB is off CD again. to re pool energy you only need 5 seconds. It sounds more like a user error to me... Only saying this because i have not come to this problem apart from when I made my own errors and not noticed the timer

[Hellbourn]

Well, the issue doesn't come from the presumed 15 seconds of free time to pool, because you realy don't have that time. The thing is - you have to refresh rupture very often at the end of KB , you have to lose another envenom during Vendetta, because you have to refresh rupture because you were funneling envenoms in to KB wich comes off cd in the most inconvenient of times when you are at 9-12 sec of rupture and 0 to 20 energy. The way I combated this was to just prioritize rupture, often times refresh it at 10-12 sec remainig and give up on the last envenom during vendetta and the third sometimes even second envenom during KB.

[Halobob87]

Is decent (exp with TB). But wrist/shoulders/ boots are FAR stronger.

[Deleted]

the 2pc was like 5% raw damage on it's own
what are you talking about?

ye the 2pc was 5-6% on its own, but ago poison will be gone and the 2pc bonus was double dipping from it. The mutilate was buffed by agonizing, and the 2pc buff, the bleed effect "mutilated flesh" itself was also buffed by agonizing. lets say u had agonizing at 50% dmg buff (with 5 stacks, just rdm number) and a mutilate would do 1000 dmg, => so 1500 dmg, mutilated flesh 30% of it 450*1,5 = 675. so 675 dmg 2p buff of a 1000 dmg base mutilate thx to agonizing, now with agonozing gone u only get 300 (30% of 1000).

long story short, with agonizing poison gone, the t19 2p will have a lot less value (depends on how much mastery u have)
also keep in mind that the t19 set bonus is also already nerfed on the ptr from 30% to 20%

[Cronovey]

The issue I have with it is that pairing it with Vendetta becomes all the more difficult if you're factoring in trying to reduce your energy capping. Between Urge to Kill already giving 60 instantly and the 60 over 2 seconds in addition, combining it with Vendetta ends up with energy capping again even though Urge to Kill was changed specifically to prevent this from happening in the first place. With the new gold trait KB generally comes up a few seconds before Vendetta now so it's possible to use but when they're lined up it's very impractical unless you've managed to dump your way to sub-30 energy before combining them.

Not only that, but it just cements us even further into having to use Vigor as a talent, when the goal of Legion was to make it less mandatory to have to use the same talents all the time. Try having an energy bar of 120 and then use Vendetta along with this legendary's effect on your Kingsbane. Even if you were at zero energy, you'd be at 60 instantly and then in the next second gain another 40. The next second after that you'd gain another 40, so without a solid amount of haste to reduce your GCD or robotic timing, you'd end up 20 energy over your cap without Vigor almost guaranteed. I'd like to have some options in my talent selection and not be forced into the same shit all the time personally, and a legendary like this cements our reliance on Vigor even further. The only way we could have an option of another talent on this line would be using the new legendary ring and there's no way we'd give up boots to use this new helm so it really becomes an impossible choice in talents (not that it wasn't already, but it just compounds the problem). There's simply no way to make it a good option that I can see other than simply getting it just after hitting 110. We have a mandatory legendary that is basically an improved version of Restless Blades for Assassination spec right now and there's no way around that one.

Overall it isn't the worst legendary in the world but it's not going to be used over the boots for sure and right now 2p/4p/boots/bracers is looking like the go-to combination until you're rolling in high end mythic ToS gear at the very least. Yes, with Agonizing gone and the nerf to T19 gear the 2p will lose power but it's still going to be a strong option (especially if you've gotten highly rolled helm/cloak) at the start. I just don't see this legendary fitting in anywhere currently; if the new gold trait hadn't been nerfed it may have been a strong option for M+ running where you could spam FoK for massively reduced KB cooldown and use it for the energy gain to continue AoE but at this point it seems like, while not the weakest legendary, it's just another random bank slot to be taken up.

[Halobob87]

ye the 2pc was 5-6% on its own, but ago poison will be gone and the 2pc bonus was double dipping from it. The mutilate was buffed by agonizing, and the 2pc buff, the bleed effect "mutilated flesh" itself was also buffed by agonizing. lets say u had agonizing at 50% dmg buff (with 5 stacks, just rdm number) and a mutilate would do 1000 dmg, => so 1500 dmg, mutilated flesh 30% of it 450*1,5 = 675. so 675 dmg 2p buff of a 1000 dmg base mutilate thx to agonizing, now with agonozing gone u only get 300 (30% of 1000).

long story short, with agonizing poison gone, the t19 2p will have a lot less value (depends on how much mastery u have)
also keep in mind that the t19 set bonus is also already nerfed on the ptr from 30% to 20%

Without ap, t19 2p is garbage, even more with that nerf.

[Deleted]

long story short, with agonizing poison gone, the t19 2p will have a lot less value (depends on how much mastery u have)
also keep in mind that the t19 set bonus is also already nerfed on the ptr from 30% to 20%

short story long. All the explanation doesnt matter, because even with all these changes you will do more dps with t19 helm and cloak than with alternative ToS mythic pieces. There isnt a basis for discussion. With all our tools available we can easily proof the performance with calculation.

- - - Updated - - -

Without ap, t19 2p is garbage, even more with that nerf.

Presumptions are fine and dandy , but the mathematical proof (in form of simulations) shows us the opposite.

[Halobob87]

short story long. All the explanation doesnt matter, because even with all these changes you will do more dps with t19 helm and cloak than with alternative ToS mythic pieces. There isnt a basis for discussion. With all our tools available we can easily proof the performance with calculation.

- - - Updated - - -



Presumptions are fine and dandy , but the mathematical proof (in form of simulations) shows us the opposite.

2p will do exactly 1 third of the damage it does rigth now. If we will actually use wrist+ boots , obv t19 head+back will be better then the shitty off pieces from ToS, but m+ can also be a decent fount of gear if u get lucky.

[shaunika123]

ye the 2pc was 5-6% on its own, but ago poison will be gone and the 2pc bonus was double dipping from it. The mutilate was buffed by agonizing, and the 2pc buff, the bleed effect "mutilated flesh" itself was also buffed by agonizing. lets say u had agonizing at 50% dmg buff (with 5 stacks, just rdm number) and a mutilate would do 1000 dmg, => so 1500 dmg, mutilated flesh 30% of it 450*1,5 = 675. so 675 dmg 2p buff of a 1000 dmg base mutilate thx to agonizing, now with agonozing gone u only get 300 (30% of 1000).

long story short, with agonizing poison gone, the t19 2p will have a lot less value (depends on how much mastery u have)
also keep in mind that the t19 set bonus is also already nerfed on the ptr from 30% to 20%

that's nice (and ive also said everything in this post before)

but the guy i was quoting was referring to live not ptr

[Kildrazien]

50 energy is fairly weak for a legendary. A sim with current setup with Alacrity with and without Venom Rush (approx 3 energy/second) shows about a 7% dps increase. Kingsbane with alacrity has about 29s cooldown, so 50 energy every 29 seconds, which should be roughly a 2% dps increase. This is a piece, though, with a heavy stat weight and potentially good stats on it, but its effect is a lot weaker than almost any other output legendary.

[ScrubRouge]

The biggest downfall of this legendary is how our gold trait works atm. it just doesn't reduce the CD fast enough for KB casts to be frequent enough for the energy gain from the legendary to be able to beat boots / bracers / Shoulders. I'm sure it wont be terrible though. It means you could probs squeeze an extra 4-5 CP envenom inside vendetta and at least guarantee 100% up time of SoT during KB. I actually might like it more if say the first 5 ticks gave 10 energy each. or something like that. so you dont have the issue of Vendetta KB energy cap.

[NtflxnChill]

The biggest downfall of this legendary is how our gold trait works atm. it just doesn't reduce the CD fast enough for KB casts to be frequent enough for the energy gain from the legendary to be able to beat boots / bracers / Shoulders. I'm sure it wont be terrible though. It means you could probs squeeze an extra 4-5 CP envenom inside vendetta and at least guarantee 100% up time of SoT during KB. I actually might like it more if say the first 5 ticks gave 10 energy each. or something like that. so you dont have the issue of Vendetta KB energy cap.

It actually sims above boots.

[Xanatu]

It actually sims above boots.

How can it sim that High? I don't get it. 100 energy per minute? That doesn't seem that strong.