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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Manabomb View Post
    That's not entirely how law pertaining to adults and children work. Ted Cruz... Is that you?
    Except it is. The law dictates an age that consent is possible. Anything before that, they cannot consent to sex. It's different from state to state, but it's not a grey area.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killadrix View Post
    Clearly, your sample size of exactly "1" was enough for you to draw conclusions around. Unfortunately, there are many out there less fortunate than you, and it's sad that you're okay with people who didn't have the same experience as you to have, in many cases, their entire life and sense of "normalcy" in relationships impacted in a very adverse manner.
    I think you misunderstand.

    The damage people experience as a result of such relationships is largely an outcome of societal condemnation. If you remove a minor's agency and condemn their behaviors - even if they are not responsible for it - you will damage how they view themselves and relationships. That's right - WE are responsible more than the 'perpetrator' of the act for the damage caused by these relationships (in most cases, not all). The only reason I have a solid mental state and positive image of myself and relationships after coming out of that relationship is that I don't give a single fuck about what other people think. I used to, but not anymore after I realized how destructive other people can be just with their opinions, and especially to an underdeveloped mind as my own was when I had to think about these kinds of things at 15.

    I want to reduce damage. I also want people to be able to acquire resources and stability if they so choose. Living in a society that condemns relationships with large age differentials and illegalizes them in some cases does neither.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretchie View Post
    The whole thread really did end right here. They can't consent and often don't have the same reasoning ability as the adult in this situation. Therefore it's the adults responsibility to control the situation and do the right thing.
    Yeah, it ended there for people who don't have the mental capacity to reason beyond law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    Exactly.

    Glad to see that most people on here are NOT positive towards this notion of opening up for children to be sexually abused by men/women more mentally mature than themselves and those adults also being protected by "but the kid wanted it as much as I did!"-sentiments...


    I've witnessed first-hand what sexual abuse does to children once the grooming (brainwashing) subsides.
    As have I, and it's a sad and terrible thing that our culture does to these victims. Maybe if we empowered them to make their own decisions instead of protecting them from things that may or may not be damaging, we could save their futures.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    I think you misunderstand.

    The damage people experience as a result of such relationships is largely an outcome of societal condemnation. If you remove a minor's agency and condemn their behaviors - even if they are not responsible for it - you will damage how they view themselves and relationships. That's right - WE are responsible more than the 'perpetrator' of the act for the damage caused by these relationships (in most cases, not all). The only reason I have a solid mental state and positive image of myself and relationships after coming out of that relationship is that I don't give a single fuck about what other people think. I used to, but not anymore after I realized how destructive other people can be just with their opinions, and especially to an underdeveloped mind as my own was when I had to think about these kinds of things at 15.

    I want to reduce damage. I also want people to be able to acquire resources and stability if they so choose. Living in a society that condemns relationships with large age differentials and illegalizes them in some cases does neither.
    I agree that societial condemnation is a factor, but it pales in comparison with the feelings of betrayal/shame/guilt which can lead to a lifelong inability to trust, which makes it extremely hard to have a healthy relationship.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post

    Yeah, it ended there for people who don't have the mental capacity to reason beyond law.
    It also ended for people who aren't interested in having sex with kids. An adolescent brain is unlikely to possess the capacity to think through their actions in a sufficient manner. (This means that some could, but most cannot. So stop with your BS drivel about "Well I was super mature when I was 15", we don't care.) There isn't a magic switch in the brain, nobody has claimed there to be. But the law must set a clear line, rather than saying "16 is the age of consent....unless they're super mature, then 14 is okay."

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killadrix View Post
    I agree that societial condemnation is a factor, but it pales in comparison with the feelings of betrayal/shame/guilt which can lead to a lifelong inability to trust, which makes it extremely hard to have a healthy relationship.
    But the betrayal, shame, and guilt are responses to societal condemnation. If a behavior is normalized, one would not feel these emotions in response to an otherwise innocuous behavior. Normalization also protects against abuse.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook12 View Post
    If an underage girl pursued an older male and she initiated sex with him and they both consented, enjoyed it, and she was not traumatized by the experience, then is it still wrong, is anyone really hurt, or is there even a victim at all? The same for an underage male pursuing an older female?
    You still going to prison playa!

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    Yeah, it ended there for people who don't have the mental capacity to reason beyond law.
    Because there is no reasoning beyond that point. You have too many issues then. How much influence did the adult have on the child's decision. The child can feel he/she wanted it, but the adult may still have used influence that lead them down that path. Teens being attracted to adults isn't a new thing, but the questions comes did the adult abuse that attraction.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    But the betrayal, shame, and guilt are responses to societal condemnation. If a behavior is normalized, one would not feel these emotions in response to an otherwise innocuous behavior. Normalization also protects against abuse.
    Those feelings are not necessarily the response to societal condemnation, they can also be as a result of the feeling of being manipulated, tricked or duped into a acts or relationships they didn't fully understand.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torgent View Post
    It also ended for people who aren't interested in having sex with kids. An adolescent brain is unlikely to possess the capacity to think through their actions in a sufficient manner. (This means that some could, but most cannot. So stop with your BS drivel about "Well I was super mature when I was 15", we don't care.) There isn't a magic switch in the brain, nobody has claimed there to be. But the law must set a clear line, rather than saying "16 is the age of consent....unless they're super mature, then 14 is okay."
    I never said I was super mature at 15. I actually said I was underdeveloped, and I would embellish on this by saying that I developed much more slowly than my peers.

    My argument is that state of development is irrelevant, and if anything is a point in favor of supporting relationships with fully developed individuals, as these kinds fo relationships can provide stability, guidance, and act as a general safety net.

    I wouldn't recommend long term relationships of this sort, though. My argument is more compatible with mentoring relationships.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calfredd View Post
    Is there something you want to tell us?
    Somebody call Chris hansen....or should I say chris...

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Because there is no reasoning beyond that point. You have too many issues then. How much influence did the adult have on the child's decision. The child can feel he/she wanted it, but the adult may still have used influence that lead them down that path. Teens being attracted to adults isn't a new thing, but the questions comes did the adult abuse that attraction.
    I don't even understand why people like you - those who are not interested in having a logical debate - even show up to these kinds of threads. There is a lot of room for reasoning beyond the question of law, because this thread is not about law, and it never was.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post


    - - - Updated - - -



    As have I, and it's a sad and terrible thing that our culture does to these victims. Maybe if we empowered them to make their own decisions instead of protecting them from things that may or may not be damaging, we could save their futures.
    Not "our culture", the people whom prey upon children and subject them to sexual relations for which the children are not ready in any shape or form.

    We empower the children by making it clear that it's not OK to prey upon them. I'm starting to seriously worry about you.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    I never said I was super mature at 15. I actually said I was underdeveloped, and I would embellish on this by saying that I developed much more slowly than my peers.

    My argument is that state of development is irrelevant, and if anything is a point in favor of supporting relationships with fully developed individuals, as these kinds fo relationships can provide stability, guidance, and act as a general safety net.

    I wouldn't recommend long term relationships of this sort, though. My argument is more compatible with mentoring relationships.
    This thread isn't about mentoring relationships....it's about people who want to have sex with children. Children can have mentors all they want, there's no mentor-related benefit from putting body parts inside each other (or any variation of sexual acts).

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roxinius View Post
    me thinks someones been diddling a 14 year old and is here for reassurance they didnt fuck up
    I guessing about now he knows he fucked up....of course I just fucking with him.....I hope he didn't.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Elba View Post
    If an underage child comes onto an adult it is the adult's job to say no and stop it.
    This is the takeaway from this thread.

    You've either developed adequate self-regulation or you haven't. If it is the latter enjoy prison, and mind dropping the soap.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Dellis0991 View Post
    I guessing about now he knows he fucked up....of course I just fucking with him.....I hope he didn't.
    Actually earlier in the thread he said "I don't play out my thoughts until they turn 15".

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Torgent View Post
    This thread isn't about mentoring relationships....it's about people who want to have sex with children. Children can have mentors all they want, there's no mentor-related benefit from putting body parts inside each other (or any variation of sexual acts).
    I'm starting to hope that proper authorities will be contacted over this.

    A very specific kind of man/woman relates mentorship to sexual relations. It's entirely accepted in our society for children to have mentors no matter how big the age difference.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killadrix View Post
    Those feelings are not necessarily the response to societal condemnation, they can also be as a result of the feeling of being manipulated, tricked or duped into a acts or relationships they didn't fully understand.
    How does that work exactly? I think your idea here sounds reasonable on paper but I don't think it would be a major concern in practice. If someone goes into a situation they know little about, and it ends in a way they didn't like, the response is a learning response, not a feeling of being tricked. You can only feel as though you've been tricked if something that you are familiar with is being deliberately misrepresented.

    In any case, this would be an extreme minority of cases. Manipulation is not a route to a successful relationship, and once these feelings arise they can just leave. In short, it's no different from anyone being in a relationship with anyone else; some people are manipulative, and even between two adults one can be much more powerful in this regard than the other.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Lobosan View Post
    I love when people say bonobos are peaceful. I've studied them. They aren't. The form entire war coalitions on the basis of who fucked whom. More peaceful than other simian species, like chimps? Certainly. But definitely still aggressive, and hypersexual to an unproductive degree.
    It's Quetzl you're responding to. If he's saying something, there's a damn good chance it's not true. Not really worth fact checking.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    I don't even understand why people like you - those who are not interested in having a logical debate - even show up to these kinds of threads. There is a lot of room for reasoning beyond the question of law, because this thread is not about law, and it never was.
    I am interested in having a logical debate. You aren't therefor there is no debating with you. Did you not read my post?
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

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