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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Lobosan View Post
    I love when people say bonobos are peaceful. I've studied them. They aren't. The form entire war coalitions on the basis of who fucked whom. More peaceful than other simian species, like chimps? Certainly. But definitely still aggressive, and hypersexual to an unproductive degree.
    It's Quetzl you're responding to. If he's saying something, there's a damn good chance it's not true. Not really worth fact checking.

  2. #122
    I am Murloc! Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    I don't even understand why people like you - those who are not interested in having a logical debate - even show up to these kinds of threads. There is a lot of room for reasoning beyond the question of law, because this thread is not about law, and it never was.
    I am interested in having a logical debate. You aren't therefor there is no debating with you. Did you not read my post?
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    Not "our culture", the people whom prey upon children and subject them to sexual relations for which the children are not ready in any shape or form.

    We empower the children by making it clear that it's not OK to prey upon them. I'm starting to seriously worry about you.
    No, it's the culture - mostly. Not entirely. We are the ones who take away their agency and victimize them and condemn their behaviors, even if they were not responsible for them. How do you think that feels, to a minor? To be part of something so vehemently despised by nearly all of society?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Torgent View Post
    This thread isn't about mentoring relationships....it's about people who want to have sex with children. Children can have mentors all they want, there's no mentor-related benefit from putting body parts inside each other (or any variation of sexual acts).
    Mentoring relationships can be sexual. It's a pair bonding activity that secures resources for the minor party.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobosan View Post
    I love when people say bonobos are peaceful. I've studied them. They aren't. The form entire war coalitions on the basis of who fucked whom. More peaceful than other simian species, like chimps? Certainly. But definitely still aggressive, and hypersexual to an unproductive degree.
    I said bonobos are far more peaceful than humans. I'm glad you agree with me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    I am interested in having a logical debate. You aren't therefor there is no debating with you. Did you not read my post?
    I'm not? Please. Shoo.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    No, it's the culture - mostly. Not entirely. We are the ones who take away their agency and victimize them and condemn their behaviors, even if they were not responsible for them. How do you think that feels, to a minor? To be part of something so vehemently despised by nearly all of society?

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    Mentoring relationships can be sexual. It's a pair bonding activity that secures resources for the minor party.
    Aaaand with that, hopefully the police arrive at your door soon and bar you from ever "mentoring" any children. What you're saying is disgusting. Mentoring relationships are NEVER sexual. That undermines the mentoring aspect of anything. No matter what the mentor is trying to teach (apart from sex), sex adds nothing to it.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemposs View Post
    Well think the reverse as well. Why would the age of consent law be in place? The typical answer, is because we don't have faith in people under a certain age to take on the responsibilities and precaution necessary to make such an action be non-problematic in any way. As well as the notion that they can be quite easily manipulated or pressured into allowing the action to happen, and not being capable of admitting they didn't want to do so.
    i dont have faith in people above the age of consent to make correct choices, to be fair.

  6. #126
    I am Murloc! Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    I'm not? Please. Shoo.
    Nah, don't want to. Your "logic" is too fun to see. Given that you ignored half my point, I can't see how you think you are logically debating anything.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    No, it's the culture - mostly. Not entirely. We are the ones who take away their agency and victimize them and condemn their behaviors, even if they were not responsible for them. How do you think that feels, to a minor? To be part of something so vehemently despised by nearly all of society?

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    Mentoring relationships can be sexual. It's a pair bonding activity that secures resources for the minor party.
    So now you're arguing that viewing sexual abuse of children as deplorable is equal to labeling the children as deplorable?

    Holy shit...

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta333 View Post
    i dont have faith in people above the age of consent to make correct choices, to be fair.
    I'd say that is somewhat fair as well, but at some point we would be neglecting basic human freedoms.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torgent View Post
    Aaaand with that, hopefully the police arrive at your door soon and bar you from ever "mentoring" any children. What you're saying is disgusting. Mentoring relationships are NEVER sexual. That undermines the mentoring aspect of anything. No matter what the mentor is trying to teach (apart from sex), sex adds nothing to it.
    I was in a sexual mentoring relationship with someone significantly older then me. It worked well for me, gave me an edge over my peers, and is party responsible for my success. I'm still good friends with the guy, and though I am not interested in a sexual relationship with him any more he still provides me with guidance. I would not have been able to obtain all of the knowledge and resources I did without the relationship being sexual; it wouldn't have been worth it for him, and I didn't mind/enjoyed it after a few times.

    So no, you're dead wrong, and far out of your element.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Nah, don't want to. Your "logic" is too fun to see. Given that you ignored half my point, I can't see how you think you are logically debating anything.
    Sorry, it's just that you're fielding arguments that other people have already fielded multiple times in this thread, and I've written responses to them. If you're interested, go back and read those responses.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    No, it's the culture - mostly. Not entirely. We are the ones who take away their agency and victimize them and condemn their behaviors, even if they were not responsible for them. How do you think that feels, to a minor? To be part of something so vehemently despised by nearly all of society?

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    Mentoring relationships can be sexual. It's a pair bonding activity that secures resources for the minor party.

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    I said bonobos are far more peaceful than humans. I'm glad you agree with me.

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    I'm not? Please. Shoo.
    I didn't agree with you. I literally did the opposite, and refuted your claim. "More peaceful than some other simian species, like chimps"=/= more peaceful than ALL simian species, or more peaceful than humans. Comparing humans to literally any other species on the planet is wholly irrelevant anyway--an apples to space rocks kind of comparison when talking about the means and methods of violence. Until bonobos get nuclear weapons, we can only judge them by constrained cognitive standards. And by such standards, they are every bit as aggressive as the average human, if not considerably moreso.

    Oh wait, you're a baiter. Sorry, won't waste any more time with you. You almost got me though! Better luck next time champ.

  11. #131
    There is a little thing called LAW . you break it you get your ass thrown in jail or pay fine . no amount of IF AND MAY gonna change that.

  12. #132
    If there's grass on the field, play ball, right?

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    I was in a sexual mentoring relationship with someone significantly older then me. It worked well for me, gave me an edge over my peers, and is party responsible for my success. I'm still good friends with the guy, and though I am not interested in a sexual relationship with him any more he still provides me with guidance. I would not have been able to obtain all of the knowledge and resources I did without the relationship being sexual; it wouldn't have been worth it for him, and I didn't mind/enjoyed it after a few times.

    So no, you're dead wrong, and far out of your element.

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    Sorry, it's just that you're fielding arguments that other people have already fielded multiple times in this thread, and I've written responses to them. If you're interested, go back and read those responses.
    So uhm. Yeah. This person just admitted to being in an abusive sexual relationship and is advocating for the proliferation of such relationships. Insert joke about Milo here while someone alerts the mods please.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    Sorry, it's just that you're fielding arguments that other people have already fielded multiple times in this thread, and I've written responses to them. If you're interested, go back and read those responses.
    Yes, I read them, but you didn't answer logically.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    I was in a sexual mentoring relationship with someone significantly older then me. It worked well for me, gave me an edge over my peers, and is party responsible for my success. I'm still good friends with the guy, and though I am not interested in a sexual relationship with him any more he still provides me with guidance. I would not have been able to obtain all of the knowledge and resources I did without the relationship being sexual; it wouldn't have been worth it for him, and I didn't mind/enjoyed it after a few times.

    So no, you're dead wrong, and far out of your element.

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    Sorry, it's just that you're fielding arguments that other people have already fielded multiple times in this thread, and I've written responses to them. If you're interested, go back and read those responses.
    I'm sorry that you were statutorily raped as child. I believe you need to seek counseling so that you don't harm other children.

    Also within your post you said "I didn't mind it/enjoyed it AFTER A FEW TIMES." Meaning for the first few, you didn't enjoy it and thus were being harmed....seriously seek help, you're damaged.

  16. #136
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    The US just has issues with the legal age of consent laws. Compared to virtually any other country on earth, the US has the oldest ages of consent. In most other developed countries, teen consent is dealt with by age brackets, so that as example, two 13 year olds can have sex, but a 13 year old cannot have sex with a 25 year old, etc. Typically the final age of consent is broader too, it might be the case that a 15 year old can consent to a partner of any age, etc.

    Then we tack on additional concerns about the nature of the relationship, an 18 year old having sex with their coach might not be illegal, but might be unethical for the coach and could result in them being fired, but not jailed, etc. The same for professors, work relationships with superiors, etc.

    Thou shalt not have sex before the age of 18, or however you guys phrase it, is just dumb.
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  17. #137
    Elemental Lord Lady Dragonheart's Avatar
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    The definition of charges involving sex with someone that is underage means that they are not able to give consent in any way.
    I am both the Lady of Dusk, Vheliana Nightwing & Dark Priestess of Lust, Loreleî Legace!
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  18. #138
    The Insane Underverse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    So now you're arguing that viewing sexual abuse of children as deplorable is equal to labeling the children as deplorable?

    Holy shit...
    'Holy shit' is a great rebuttal, so let me elaborate.

    First, sexual interactions are not sexual abuse except by law. Abuse requires damage. There is nothing inherently damaging about engaging in sexual relations with other humans of any age. There are circumstances under which any sexual interaction can become abusive. But these circumstances are not innate to the interaction.

    Second, I would argue that we should condemn sexual abuse to a severe degree. And by abuse, I mean damaging sexual interactions. This is and should be consistent with our condemnation of other sexual abuses such as rape.

    Third, viewing a sexual interaction as deplorable negatively impacts the participants in that interaction. This is no different from other types of sexual interactions. Ask yourself this: is labeling gay anal sex as deplorable equivalent to labeling gay people as deplorable? No, not quite; that's a strawman argument because it takes the same form as your comparison. But you are still damaging a gay person by saying that the sexual acts they engage in are deplorable. I think this should all be very straightforward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobosan View Post
    So uhm. Yeah. This person just admitted to being in an abusive sexual relationship and is advocating for the proliferation of such relationships. Insert joke about Milo here while someone alerts the mods please.
    It wasn't abusive. I had plenty of power in the relationship, it just came from other places, such as sex appeal and social pressure.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    'Holy shit' is a great rebuttal, so let me elaborate.

    First, sexual interactions are not sexual abuse except by law. Abuse requires damage. There is nothing inherently damaging about engaging in sexual relations with other humans of any age. There are circumstances under which any sexual interaction can become abusive. But these circumstances are not innate to the interaction.

    Second, I would argue that we should condemn sexual abuse to a severe degree. And by abuse, I mean damaging sexual interactions. This is and should be consistent with our condemnation of other sexual abuses such as rape.

    Third, viewing a sexual interaction as deplorable negatively impacts the participants in that interaction. This is no different from other types of sexual interactions. Ask yourself this: is labeling gay anal sex as deplorable equivalent to labeling gay people as deplorable? No, not quite; that's a strawman argument because it takes the same form as your comparison. But you are still damaging a gay person by saying that the sexual acts they engage in are deplorable. I think this should all be very straightforward.

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    It wasn't abusive. I had plenty of power in the relationship, it just came from other places, such as sex appeal and social pressure.
    Nope. Not engaging you. You've been reported and I sincerely hope you get the counseling you need.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torgent View Post
    I'm sorry that you were statutorily raped as child. I believe you need to seek counseling so that you don't harm other children.

    Also within your post you said "I didn't mind it/enjoyed it AFTER A FEW TIMES." Meaning for the first few, you didn't enjoy it and thus were being harmed....seriously seek help, you're damaged.
    See, this is exactly the shit I'm talking about. OTHER PEOPLE TAKE NOTE. You are victimizing me when I don't see myself as a victim. You are telling me that I am damaged when I am more whole than the vast majority of other people. You are saying that I was raped when I consented. THIS is the damage I was talking about coming from our culture. THIS is where the psychological damage comes from. People like you.

    And I don't blame you for it. I'm just asking you to reconsider. You are wrong here. You can't tell me how to feel. And if you tell a child this, understand that you are breaking them. I can resist these powerful cultural influences because I stopped caring what other people think a long time ago. But not everyone has this luxury.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobosan View Post
    Nope. Not engaging you. You've been reported and I sincerely hope you get the counseling you need.
    Reported for what now? Making a sound logical argument? Yeah, a crime on these boards, I suppose.

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