1. #6281
    Yeesh, it looks like nothing BioWare is doing is really making the vocal community happy. Granted the vocal community is notorious for being unhappy in any game, but BW had some cache built-in with them and there seemed to be a bit more optimism/openness early on from them.

    But damn, 2 and a half weeks is realistically a very short period of time, but it seems like the game has already been out far longer. Hopefully folks will give them at least a month to really dig in and work on the game, they're definitely stumbling with some of these early patches but they can still turn things around.

    And I think the lack of max level content at launch is hurting them far, far more than they even imagined. Without proper turning for difficulty/rewards for higher difficulties (which sounds like it still needs some work) the overall lack of content is more obvious and leave folks focusing more on other issues rather than being overwhelmed by so much to do. And IMO a big part of that is designing the game so that players need to frequently return to the city, but that's a design choice with how they wanted gameplay to flow/be paced.

  2. #6282
    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post


    I have no idea how you make one of my favorite genres so boring. What an accomplishment.
    Video Games!
    I remember having a huge discussion with you about Devil May Cry Have you played it yet? I no lifed it and passed it in a single day wonderful experience.

  3. #6283
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Yeesh, it looks like nothing BioWare is doing is really making the vocal community happy.
    For starters they could try to not make the most pressing issues worse. That should do the trick.

  4. #6284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    Video Games!
    I remember having a huge discussion with you about Devil May Cry Have you played it yet? I no lifed it and passed it in a single day wonderful experience.
    Playing as v is just as boring as anthem ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  5. #6285
    Quote Originally Posted by kaelleria View Post
    No Man's Sky survived.
    No man's sky isn't a "live service", it wasn't even a multiplayer game until much later after it's release, and it has an average of 2,000 players online.

    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    Yeah, people SHOULD play for the gameplay.
    Not for the dopamine of receiving a reward/improvement.

    If you dont have fun playing anthem...you just might quit today.

    Please do
    Yeah, people shouldn't play looter shooters for the loot!

    Also, people ARE reportedly quitting, I just hope you guys remember that these companies care about money, not about the personal attachment that a small group of people developed towards one of their products, if people are indeed quitting the service, and if enough do, it's a matter of time till the game starts suffering from it, either by a reduction on the quantity and frequency of new content, or in a more extreme & rare scenario, the game is put on life support, getting only the minimum support it needs to keep the lights on.

    Therefore this "I'm glad morons are quitting derp derp" kind of mentality is extremely shortsighted, it's not something anyone in his right mind should be happy with or hope for, even if you "hate" the game.

  6. #6286
    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    No man's sky isn't a "live service", it wasn't even a multiplayer game until much later after it's release, and it has an average of 2,000 players online.



    Yeah, people shouldn't play looter shooters for the loot!

    Also, people ARE reportedly quitting, I just hope you guys remember that these companies care about money, not about the personal attachment that a small group of people developed towards one of their products, if people are indeed quitting the service, and if enough do, it's a matter of time till the game starts suffering from it, either by a reduction on the quantity and frequency of new content, or in a more extreme & rare scenario, the game is put on life support, getting only the minimum support it needs to keep the lights on.

    Therefore this "I'm glad morons are quitting derp derp" kind of mentality is extremely shortsighted, it's not something anyone in his right mind should be happy with or hope for, even if you "hate" the game.
    If all the fun from monster hunter came from looting new things...i wouldnt have 2000 hours in it.
    I play monster hunter for the gameplay and social interaction.

    The dopamine in looting new things is flawed design. Its false enjoyment in my opinion.
    Something World of Warcreaft suffers from today.

    IMO

  7. #6287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    If all the fun from monster hunter came from looting new things...i wouldnt have 2000 hours in it.
    I play monster hunter for the gameplay and social interaction.

    The dopamine in looting new things is flawed design. Its false enjoyment in my opinion.
    Something World of Warcreaft suffers from today.

    IMO
    Loot, and joy from aquiring it, has been an integral part of these games since at least Diablo 1. Take it away and you kill this genre (and others). Not really much difference between dopamine from killing the dude and dopamine from looting the dude. They all parts of the gameplay. Also, how can it be a false enjoyment? How do you decide whats a real joy, if by definition source of joy is subjective?
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2019-03-11 at 05:32 PM.
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  8. #6288
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Loot, and joy from aquiring it, has been an integral part of these games since at least Diablo 1. Take it away and you kill this genre and others). Not really much difference between dopamine from killing the dude and dopamine from looting the dude. They all parts of the gameplay.
    You need to enjoy the gameplay though

    This is my theory:
    What happens when you get ALL loot fromt he game? (if ALL your enjoyment comes from the loot)
    You stop playing

    What happens when you get all loot BUT you love the gameplay?
    You keep playing

    Playing just for the loot is flawed design IMO.

  9. #6289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    You need to enjoy the gameplay though

    This is my theory:
    What happens when you get ALL loot fromt he game? (if ALL your enjoyment comes from the loot)
    You stop playing

    What happens when you get all loot BUT you love the gameplay?
    You keep playing

    Playing just for the loot is flawed design IMO.
    Aquiring loot IS part of the gameplay. Killing bosses and looting them make a bigger sum. If you aquire all of the items, you automatically get diminished gameplay experience. And that's the reason some games have it nigh impossible to get "all" loot. Diablo 3 has random rolls and primals, WoW has titanforged etc.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  10. #6290
    Ember nerf was unintended. So that's a good sign.

  11. #6291
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    If all the fun from monster hunter came from looting new things...i wouldnt have 2000 hours in it.
    I play monster hunter for the gameplay and social interaction.

    The dopamine in looting new things is flawed design. Its false enjoyment in my opinion.
    Something World of Warcreaft suffers from today.

    IMO
    You are just you, and a “live service” can’t just rely on a minority to keep going.

    Don’t get me wrong, gameplay obviously plays a big part on keeping people playing, but saying that people shouldn’t be playing a loot-based game for the loot is just silly, regardless how good the gameplay might be, you still need to provide a satisfying goal to aim for otherwise people will start growing bored of it, and if people are growing bored of a “live service” after a month, then maybe there is something wrong with it.

    Of course, let’s not ignore this isn’t something easy to achieve either, I gave Diablo’s example, but plenty of others game had their loot systems reworked, because it’s not just about “not giving enough loot”, if you give way to much of it will also become a problem, Bioware seems to be taking in feedback and trying to deal with the problems, which is what really matters right now…. But this “I’m glad people are quitting!” is just fucking dumb.

  12. #6292
    Quote Originally Posted by kaelleria View Post
    Ember nerf was unintended. So that's a good sign.
    Sorta kinda? I mean, these kinds of bugs seem to crop up in every single patch so far and require secondary fixes...just for once the fix will be giving players more rather than less. If they can't track down what's causing these bugs to slip though then that's an issue.

    But given their stinginess with loot thus far, I wouldn't be surprised to see folks claiming they're just saying that to make folks happy and this was intended all along. It sadly fits with their repeated moves to decrease/limit the amount of high-end loot players get.

    Oh well, no matter what the reason is (and I believe that it was likely a mistake/bug) hopefully it'll chill folks out. The Anthem reddit is pretty unhappy right now : (

  13. #6293
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Sorta kinda? I mean, these kinds of bugs seem to crop up in every single patch so far and require secondary fixes...just for once the fix will be giving players more rather than less. If they can't track down what's causing these bugs to slip though then that's an issue.

    But given their stinginess with loot thus far, I wouldn't be surprised to see folks claiming they're just saying that to make folks happy and this was intended all along. It sadly fits with their repeated moves to decrease/limit the amount of high-end loot players get.

    Oh well, no matter what the reason is (and I believe that it was likely a mistake/bug) hopefully it'll chill folks out. The Anthem reddit is pretty unhappy right now : (
    Something about their version control and deployment seems to be fucked up. There's a few bugs that have returned, some assets not deployed, etc..

    Honestly if I were in charge of deployments at BW I'd probably be worried.

    Then Anthem subreddit has been in total meltdown since Saturday... This tweet chain made it worse :/

    https://twitter.com/crobertson_atx/s...06215986548736
    Last edited by kaelleria; 2019-03-11 at 05:45 PM.

  14. #6294
    @Makabreska @Myobi

    So in your opinion the game ends once you get all loot?
    And a perfect looter game makes it impossible to get all loot giving you a sense of never ending acomplishment?

    I would hate a game that makes it impossible to get all loot (aka Diablo)

    So what exactly is the perfect solution in Anthem's case?

    Make it so is possible to get ALL loot but it takes 1000 hours to do so?

    IMO Anthem SHOULD MAKE IT RAIN!
    Because never ending search for loot is flawed design and outright self inflicted pain.

  15. #6295
    Quote Originally Posted by kaelleria View Post
    Something about their version control and deployment seems to be fucked up. There's a few bugs that have returned, some assets not deployed, etc..

    Honestly if I were in charge of deployments at BW I'd probably be worried.

    Then Anthem subreddit has been in total meltdown since Saturday... This tweet chain made it worse :/

    https://twitter.com/crobertson_atx/s...06215986548736
    Yeah, and the "we think loot is exciting" on the livestream didn't do them any favors either. I can't blame the guy, he's trying to communicate and be positive while acknowledging issues. But without having more concrete info, which is all players care about right now, so this is just poking a hornet's nest : (

  16. #6296
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Yeah, and the "we think loot is exciting" on the livestream didn't do them any favors either. I can't blame the guy, he's trying to communicate and be positive while acknowledging issues. But without having more concrete info, which is all players care about right now, so this is just poking a hornet's nest : (
    Right... It doesn't help that Ben Irving is currently in Australia at his brother's wedding while all of this is going down. The fact things have spiraled so out of control so quickly makes me think there's some brigading going on, but I've got no proof.

    A short term bandaid might be to buff loot drops and invalidate them later on with better gear, but that has issues too...

  17. #6297
    Quote Originally Posted by kaelleria View Post
    Right... It doesn't help that Ben Irving is currently in Australia at his brother's wedding while all of this is going down. The fact things have spiraled so out of control so quickly makes me think there's some brigading going on, but I've got no proof.
    Heh, well even the lead being gone for a bit shouldn't throw things into disorder really. It'll be a minor hiccup, but it shouldn't cause any issues internally unless he's set up a very poor workflow/approval process. I doubt there's brigading TBH (seen some posts from Division 2 folks, but even those are folks that were already posting and playin in Anthem), just a lot of salty players. Folks aren't really inclined to give a lot of leeway like they have in the past given that this is a persistent problem with online games, and after the mixed back and issues with the previous patches it seems like folks patience is quickly wearing thin.

    Which sucks, because BW is being better/faster than any developer before at responding/fixing things. But they're just in the unfortunate position of players not having any kind of patience for this anymore. Between it being a recurring problem and there always being a wealth of exciting new games coming out, games now have pretty limited windows of times to capture folks attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaelleria View Post
    A short term bandaid might be to buff loot drops and invalidate them later on with better gear, but that has issues too...
    Honestly...they should probably be retooling their roadmap a bit to account for addressing these issues. I think you're on the right path, cranking up loot drops so that things feel better now and then coming with a more comprehensive loot fix that primes the game for a smoother loot experience moving forward (with a power gain to invalidate older gear). But that's a lot of work and they'd likely have to pull folks off other projects, and I don't know if they're in a position where they feel this is necessary. At least not yet.

    Edit: Damn BW and Bungie starting with B's and making similar games, I keep getting the two confused >.<

  18. #6298
    Make it rain.

    I agree completely with both the forbes article and community protest.

  19. #6299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    @Makabreska @Myobi

    So in your opinion the game ends once you get all loot?
    And a perfect looter game makes it impossible to get all loot giving you a sense of never ending acomplishment?

    I would hate a game that makes it impossible to get all loot (aka Diablo)

    So what exactly is the perfect solution in Anthem's case?

    Make it so is possible to get ALL loot but it takes 1000 hours to do so?

    IMO Anthem SHOULD MAKE IT RAIN!
    Because never ending search for loot is flawed design and outright self inflicted pain.
    Nope, getting all the loot doesn't end the game, but it greatly diminshes the experience. So many times I heard "Wtf am I supposed to do? I have all the items!". This type of games operates on a simple premise - kill monsters and get loot to be better at killing monsters. You want to basically remove gearing up from the equation? People then will be stuck doing same content over and over again, w/o any extra incentive. Good luck with retaining playerbase with this model.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2019-03-11 at 06:16 PM.
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  20. #6300
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    @Makabreska @Myobi

    So in your opinion the game ends once you get all loot?
    And a perfect looter game makes it impossible to get all loot giving you a sense of never ending acomplishment?

    I would hate a game that makes it impossible to get all loot (aka Diablo)

    So what exactly is the perfect solution in Anthem's case?

    Make it so is possible to get ALL loot but it takes 1000 hours to do so?

    IMO Anthem SHOULD MAKE IT RAIN!
    Because never ending search for loot is flawed design and outright self inflicted pain.
    *sigh

    Tell me, what previous looter game that you’ve played have you gotten “all loot”?

    Such a weird way to try to twist it.

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