1. #8141
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    I think it started with battlefront 2. Then FO76 came and it was a cataclyst on an already brewing fire to which gamers were well tired of.
    Battlefront 2 was slammed for different reasons largely surrounding the monetization, IIRC it was pretty solid when it released in terms of the game itself.

    It started, if we want to trip back a bit (and it could likely be earlier) with Destiny. And then The Division. And No Man's Sky. And then Destiny 2. And Fallout 76. And a handful of other titles mixed in there (Battleborn could fit that bill, possibly. Same with Evolve).

    Eventually, folks get tired of games launching as a dumpster fire and needing to wait a year or more for them to fix their shit. As I've said, it seems that unfortunately for BioWare they just happened to be the latest game at the time these frustrations boiled over and the patience wore out.

    We could go back further to MMO releases, but that's always been a niche community in the broader gaming scene. It wasn't until Destiny and other similar titles started landing that this issue made it to the mainstream/general gaming audience, who have far less patience than us MMO nerds.

  2. #8142
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    I think it started with battlefront 2. Then FO76 came and it was a cataclyst on an already brewing fire to which gamers were well tired of.
    I dont get hyped for games since Peter Molyneux opened his Schantmaul and only buy games after i saw some gameplay vids after release.

  3. #8143
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Battlefront 2 was slammed for different reasons largely surrounding the monetization, IIRC it was pretty solid when it released in terms of the game itself.

    It started, if we want to trip back a bit (and it could likely be earlier) with Destiny. And then The Division. And No Man's Sky. And then Destiny 2. And Fallout 76. And a handful of other titles mixed in there (Battleborn could fit that bill, possibly. Same with Evolve).

    Eventually, folks get tired of games launching as a dumpster fire and needing to wait a year or more for them to fix their shit. As I've said, it seems that unfortunately for BioWare they just happened to be the latest game at the time these frustrations boiled over and the patience wore out.

    We could go back further to MMO releases, but that's always been a niche community in the broader gaming scene. It wasn't until Destiny and other similar titles started landing that this issue made it to the mainstream/general gaming audience, who have far less patience than us MMO nerds.
    No, we can't go back to MMO releases because people get upset if you point out that GAAS is cousin to the MMO. There's absolutely nothing similar in games that bill themselves on years of narrative and continued support if you nitpick the word massively.

    But Jim Sterling finally made the connection, so maybe that'll change soon since his word is law.
    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    What can I say, I'm sort of an obsessed person
    Indeed you are.

  4. #8144
    I think a huge part of the problem is that game studios are all so corporate now. i want to believe gamers would be more forgiving towards nerdy guys who just pushed out a game that happened to be very flawed (=shit) but it honestly was what they believed in and lived for the last 2 years of their life.

    Nowadays most game devs that you actually "see" are either suits themselves or held on a short leash by them and you can litterally read the "...but the prime reason for this feature was monetization" between everything they say.

    And maybe there is no real way around that? Studios are born small with lots of passion, they grow, they become corporate, they die...but there always are enough new small studios around to rise up and thankfully with todays technology it is indeed quite easy to make a decent game with a small team and limited resources.

    That last fact, that small studios are actually able to push out great games with very little budget today, just makes gamers (rightfully) expect much, much more from the large studios they loved since childhood with almost infinite resources at their disposal.

  5. #8145
    Quote Originally Posted by Miyagie View Post
    I dont get hyped for games since Peter Molyneux opened his Schantmaul and only buy games after i saw some gameplay vids after release.
    Thank you for this reminder that the gaming community is doomed since it can't avoid overhype and now we want to pretend that pre ordering will stop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    What can I say, I'm sort of an obsessed person
    Indeed you are.

  6. #8146
    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    No, we can't go back to MMO releases because people get upset if you point out that GAAS is cousin to the MMO.
    Personally, I don't give a shit about that. I've been saying these games are functionally MMO's since day one and I maintain that position today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    There's absolutely nothing similar in games that bill themselves on years of narrative and continued support if you nitpick the word massively.
    But there have been more narrative driven MMO's like Secret World where the narrative was prioritized over gameplay content, so they exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    But Jim Sterling finally made the connection, so maybe that'll change soon since his word is law.
    I do my best to ignore him and his garbage. Haven't put much, if any, stock in what he has to say in years.

  7. #8147
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Personally, I don't give a shit about that. I've been saying these games are functionally MMO's since day one and I maintain that position today.



    But there have been more narrative driven MMO's like Secret World where the narrative was prioritized over gameplay content, so they exist.



    I do my best to ignore him and his garbage. Haven't put much, if any, stock in what he has to say in years.
    He's fun to watch occasionally if you want to laugh at a guy who's a mile up his own ass thanks to his fans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    What can I say, I'm sort of an obsessed person
    Indeed you are.

  8. #8148
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    Why not just say on a "review" the game is bad?

    Why do we have to endlessly make fun of it? Killing all hope for future updates?
    Are you implying players are to blame for this situation?

    Players are "killing all hope for future updates?" How so? By not playing a poor game? Or by saying mean stuff on forums?

    See - the thing is shit, there was a positive engagement from the community at the beginning, but Bioware could not even handle that with their terrible CM team that literally had nothing constructive to say themselves. So shocking that community went south seeing Bioware radio silence.


    Players can't "kill all hope for future updates" by posting mean threads on forums - WoW is a great example of that, because despite all the bitching it's still being played by millions.

    What "killed all hope for future updates" is shitty game design by a studio and publisher who could not man up and cancel the game and instead went for a cash grab to recoup losses at expense of their reputation. So yes, they should pay that reputation price for the $$ they managed to grab.

  9. #8149
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Are you implying players are to blame for this situation?

    Players are "killing all hope for future updates?" How so? By not playing a poor game? Or by saying mean stuff on forums?
    By going on and on and on and on with their whining. It's ok so say the game is shitty and stop playing it but hanging out for months and months on its forums whining about the game and shitting on people still playing is kind of childish.

    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    It's not a total failure. I'm sure bioware and ea were all to happy to take in the cash they could before it was found out the game was a hot mess.


    It's just one of the worst games to come out. Not the only one of course but there is a lot to criticize anthem for and well beyond the limited scope you mention
    Well i disagree. There are so many worse games out there. Even from Bioware themselves, i had much more fun in Anthem than in ME:A or DA:I. Both of them were much worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Battlefront 2 was slammed for different reasons largely surrounding the monetization, IIRC it was pretty solid when it released in terms of the game itself.

    It started, if we want to trip back a bit (and it could likely be earlier) with Destiny. And then The Division. And No Man's Sky. And then Destiny 2. And Fallout 76. And a handful of other titles mixed in there (Battleborn could fit that bill, possibly. Same with Evolve).
    Well Battleborn wasn't bugged, people just didn't play it because Overwatch released at the same time. And as a MOBA it had enough endgame through PvP. I quite liked it.

  10. #8150
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    By going on and on and on and on with their whining. It's ok so say the game is shitty and stop playing it but hanging out for months and months on its forums whining about the game and shitting on people still playing is kind of childish.



    Well i disagree. There are so many worse games out there. Even from Bioware themselves, i had much more fun in Anthem than in ME:A or DA:I. Both of them were much worse.



    Well Battleborn wasn't bugged, people just didn't play it because Overwatch released at the same time. And as a MOBA it had enough endgame through PvP. I quite liked it.
    Alright. I'm gonna be super rude.

    I'm lukewarm on Dragon Age games. But if you are actually saying Inquisition is objectively worse than Anthem is(Not you liked Anthem more. You specifically stated it is a worse game), you are being absurd just to push this idea the playerbase killed the game.

    Bonus round. Why hasn't Bethesda completely clammed up and given up on 76 when it gets dump trucked regularly?
    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    What can I say, I'm sort of an obsessed person
    Indeed you are.

  11. #8151
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    By going on and on and on and on with their whining. It's ok so say the game is shitty and stop playing it but hanging out for months and months on its forums whining about the game and shitting on people still playing is kind of childish.
    When a game is that bad and released the way anthem was I disagree. It deserves the continued negativity so that any new player isn't scammed into spending money on a game that at this time just isn't worth it.
    Do you gaming buddies a soild and get as much warning out there as possible. Don't let them make the same mistakes by being uninformed.

    Well i disagree. There are so many worse games out there. Even from Bioware themselves, i had much more fun in Anthem than in ME:A or DA:I. Both of them were much worse.
    As a whole you are in an extremely small group them. It's great you found some enjoyment but clearly the larger group of gamers and gaming community disagree.

    glad you could pull out some entertainment from anthem but you are one in an already extremely small group that did given the backlash this game is getting. Anecdotal sure but you'd be hard pressed to convince me it's not true given the state of things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Are you implying players are to blame for this situation?

    Players are "killing all hope for future updates?" How so? By not playing a poor game? Or by saying mean stuff on forums?

    See - the thing is shit, there was a positive engagement from the community at the beginning, but Bioware could not even handle that with their terrible CM team that literally had nothing constructive to say themselves. So shocking that community went south seeing Bioware radio silence.


    Players can't "kill all hope for future updates" by posting mean threads on forums - WoW is a great example of that, because despite all the bitching it's still being played by millions.

    What "killed all hope for future updates" is shitty game design by a studio and publisher who could not man up and cancel the game and instead went for a cash grab to recoup losses at expense of their reputation. So yes, they should pay that reputation price for the $$ they managed to grab.
    Well said. This is not some player driven scenario where gamers killed a game.

    bioware did that all on their on.
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  12. #8152
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    When a game is that bad and released the way anthem was I disagree. It deserves the continued negativity so that any new player isn't scammed into spending money on a game that at this time just isn't worth it.
    Do you gaming buddies a soild and get as much warning out there as possible. Don't let them make the same mistakes by being uninformed.
    I believe you are wrong. Even in this Thread if you go back to when the game was released and a few months after you can see that most people here that actually played the game found it fun. It just gets boring in the endgame due to it's lack of content.

    To act like the gamer police that has to actively stop people from buying the game (now at discount prices) is absurd. Have you even played it?

    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    As a whole you are in an extremely small group them. It's great you found some enjoyment but clearly the larger group of gamers and gaming community disagree.

    glad you could pull out some entertainment from anthem but you are one in an already extremely small group that did given the backlash this game is getting. Anecdotal sure but you'd be hard pressed to convince me it's not true given the state of things.
    I'm not sure. ME:A is universally disliked and yes, DA:I is my subjective opinion, i had to force myself through it since the combat and the story was so unbelievably boring... at least Anthem has fun gameplay.

  13. #8153
    Bioware had the same opportunity to right the ship as every other company that brought out hyped games that turned out shit.
    By doing something about it

    They didn't.
    So they keep getting shit for it.
    The only one at fault is Bioware for not sorting out the problems and doing something about it.

    Even No Man Sky managed to turn itself around while people kept on shitposting. If Bioware can't do it its not the fault of people posting about how shit the game is on the internet, its the fault of the developer for not a) making a better game and b) fixing the shit they released.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  14. #8154
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Bioware had the same opportunity to right the ship as every other company that brought out hyped games that turned out shit.
    By doing something about it

    They didn't.
    So they keep getting shit for it.
    The only one at fault is Bioware for not sorting out the problems and doing something about it.

    Even No Man Sky managed to turn itself around while people kept on shitposting. If Bioware can't do it its not the fault of people posting about how shit the game is on the internet, its the fault of the developer for not a) making a better game and b) fixing the shit they released.
    I guess if you put it that way, its true.
    No Man Sky developers are harder than any rock type pokemon.

  15. #8155
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    I believe you are wrong. Even in this Thread if you go back to when the game was released and a few months after you can see that most people here that actually played the game found it fun. It just gets boring in the endgame due to it's lack of content.

    To act like the gamer police that has to actively stop people from buying the game (now at discount prices) is absurd. Have you even played it?
    I did through origin and it's exactly like I stated it was when it launched. A broken POS bioware knew about but sold it anyway. We will not be agreeing here because you can go back on this thread or even reddit or any number of places that talks about anthem and see just how many had dislike anthem. Even if they through the flying was good (which most do) there is way to much undeveloped crap combined with a plethora of bugs and other issues.

    It's not gamer police thing. It's just giving good advice to a fellow gamer so they can make an informed decision and not go off something bioware put out.

    I'm not sure. ME:A is universally disliked and yes, DA:I is my subjective opinion, i had to force myself through it since the combat and the story was so unbelievably boring... at least Anthem has fun gameplay.
    Anthem gameplay is OK but noting I didn't do in Unreal tournament with some mods years and years ago. Run, gun and fly. Hell, there were better weapons and we even added in super speed and all kinds of things. Anthem is mediocre at best providing nothing all that new in the game play area. So while interesting it has a very short lifecycle given the rest of anthems problems.

    So while I agree with you to a small degree, anthem had it moments for game play and flying around in and out of combat is entertaining. It's not nearly enough to make it better than a mediocre bug filedl game that deserves consistent negativity for not only how poorly bioware and their management did things but how they sold it knowing it was a broken POS at launch.
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  16. #8156
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    When a game is that bad and released the way anthem was I disagree. It deserves the continued negativity so that any new player isn't scammed into spending money on a game that at this time just isn't worth it.
    Do you gaming buddies a soild and get as much warning out there as possible. Don't let them make the same mistakes by being uninformed.
    No, the game deserves to be reviewed honestly based on it's current state. If the game is an objectively bad game, sure, provide you opinion and move on.

    No reason to continuously spread negativity, stick to the facts...ALL the facts, not just the ones that support your (general your, not personal) negative viewpoint and let people make their own decisions.

    There are plenty of people who still enjoy it for what it is.

    Trying to take it upon yourself to be the gaming police and try and stop people from buy a game you dislike because you feel it's your duty to keep people from "wasting their money" is absolutely ridiculous.

  17. #8157
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    By going on and on and on and on with their whining. It's ok so say the game is shitty and stop playing it but hanging out for months and months on its forums whining about the game and shitting on people still playing is kind of childish.



    Well i disagree. There are so many worse games out there. Even from Bioware themselves, i had much more fun in Anthem than in ME:A or DA:I. Both of them were much worse.



    Well Battleborn wasn't bugged, people just didn't play it because Overwatch released at the same time. And as a MOBA it had enough endgame through PvP. I quite liked it.
    It's completely fine to not like certain games or types of games on a personal level, but in regards to how complete and polished the overall package was when sold to consumers, DA:I is miles above where both Anthem and ME:A is, and that is something reflected in the generally positive reception it got, both with players and critically.

  18. #8158
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    I believe you are wrong. Even in this Thread if you go back to when the game was released and a few months after you can see that most people here that actually played the game found it fun. It just gets boring in the endgame due to it's lack of content.

    To act like the gamer police that has to actively stop people from buying the game (now at discount prices) is absurd. Have you even played it?



    I'm not sure. ME:A is universally disliked and yes, DA:I is my subjective opinion, i had to force myself through it since the combat and the story was so unbelievably boring... at least Anthem has fun gameplay.
    I was enjoying anthem up until I got to the point there was no realistic way to improve any more. I had about as many legendaries as I was willing to grind for and did everything I wanted to. When the cataclysm comes out I fully expect to plink around on it some but really they need to fix their loot until that is done every time you see purple rain it is a kick in the nuts.

  19. #8159
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    No, the game deserves to be reviewed honestly based on it's current state. If the game is an objectively bad game, sure, provide you opinion and move on.

    No reason to continuously spread negativity, stick to the facts...ALL the facts, not just the ones that support your (general your, not personal) negative viewpoint and let people make their own decisions.

    There are plenty of people who still enjoy it for what it is.

    Trying to take it upon yourself to be the gaming police and try and stop people from buy a game you dislike because you feel it's your duty to keep people from "wasting their money" is absolutely ridiculous.
    The only thing we are going to agree on here is anthem should be reviewed honestly but who are you going to go by? you? Me? Youtubers which no one can seem to agree on. It's clear we have very different tolerance levels here given the subject.

    As in, I think the game is objectively bad and has been since the start. No amount of flying, no matter how fun changes that for me. A broken game sold to the public with the hopes of it getting better. Better being the very loose term here because it wouldn't take much to claim anthem got better since launch given the POS state it was in. Hell, review it even now and it's all over the board with negative and dare I say fewer positive reviews no matter where you look.

    I disagree about the negativity and it's continued use. I fully endorse it actually given how bioware released this game knowing it was as bad as it was. At the core of it bioware cannot pretend they didn't know. They are still gamers at heart. They have to be and if anyone played it at all they would know how bad the game was and yet it was still sold to the public. Be that bioware or EA it doesn't matter. I don't easily forgive companies for that kind of shady practice so in turn I support the negativity of a game for a rather long time. They get no easy out or praise after making such a move.

    I've always said, I don't mind a company making money but how they go about doing it is extremely important to me.

    As far as people who enjoy anthem. That can have at it. That doesn't bother me at all and the statement alone means nothing. People like all kinda of things just as people dislike all kinds of things. It's a tolerance level thing.

    I'm not trying to stop someone from buying anthem but I also don't encourage it. I do feel they should know the game better than biwoare or ea is ever willing to show or say. Someone should read all the posts and opinions and find themselves somewhere in the middle when making a decision.

    They should know the game today. Their attempt at bug fixes. Reducing load times. How loot is still an issue and how limited the content is and they should know how the game launched. The shady scam gamers feel about it. The misrepresentation of the game and sold at a AAA price all the while bioware knew it was a screwed up and bug filled with little content and poor loot. The whole picture from launch to now.

    If they want to go ahead and buy it. Thats more than fine and is no skin off my back but it's good to make a well informed decision when buying any game these days.
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  20. #8160
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    [SNIP]

    If they want to go ahead and buy it. Thats more than fine and is no skin off my back but it's good to make a well informed decision when buying any game these days.
    I don't think we disagree on much in this.

    Maybe there's a disconnect, but my point regarding the negativity is that continuing to be negative about the game for the same things over and over, just makes you sound like a broken record and doesn't add any value.

    If, however, there are changes made and the game is then reviewed again under a different scope and continues to be bad...being negative for that is fine.

    ie Being negative about WoW based on what happened in Vanilla doesn't make sense anymore because it's now BfA...if you review it as BfA and find things negative, be negative about those things. If it's hte same things as you found in Vanilla...fine.

    Otherwise all you're doing is beating a dead horse at that point...it's a meme. Move on with your life if all you're going to be doing is spouting the same negativity towards something when that message has already been received.

    Well informed just means you have enough information to make your own decision. I can't tell you what you should read, or watch, or touch, or whatever before you feel you have enough information to make an "informed" decision. But you and I agree that you should be informed before making it. That typically just means getting information from multiple and various sources in order to get a good idea of the good, bad and ugly of the game so you can decide it passes muster for you.

    I will say, that someone telling me"this game is bad" isn't going to mean anything to me by itself. But I'm sure you know that.

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