1. #8581
    Elemental Lord zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    ... because I'm pretty sure they themselves stated it as a sort of goal. to have a more open world with all kinds of stuff to do with it ala Skyrim. there you go. https://gamerant.com/dragon-age-inqu...ep-rpg-skyrim/

    and yes it does take more, which is why DAI, let alone Andromeda's take on it didn't quite work.
    You're reading too much into that article if you think the actual game that came out was an attempt to be just like Skyrim, rather than just having market trends in mind while putting their own spin on things.

    There's too many things about the game they actually put out that wildly diverges from how Bethesda does things for comparisons like that with the finished product to hold up.

  2. #8582
    Quote Originally Posted by ldev View Post
    Final Fantasy mmo also failed, it didn't prevented them to rework and launch again. So it wasn't "that's it".

    Game base systems were fine and fun - flying was awesome, shooting was fine. They just needed story and loot and raids.
    Different situations different outcomes.

    There was an attempt, but I bet this technological nightmare was a tad beyond reason to salvage.

  3. #8583
    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    You're reading too much into that article if you think the actual game that came out was an attempt to be just like Skyrim, rather than just having market trends in mind while putting their own spin on things.

    There's too many things about the game they actually put out that wildly diverges from how Bethesda does things for comparisons like that with the finished product to hold up.
    market trends set by Skyrim.

    and this is what I at least actualy said in my earlier post that I assumed you were replying to since yours was right under it

    problem with DAI IMO was that it was trying very VERY hard to capitalize on success of Skyrim
    I didn't say copy. I said capitalize. you know... essentially a synonym for "follow the market trends"? but they also tried to still keep it a story and character focused bioware game and that scattered their focus far FAR too much, making for a less engaging game. IMO.

  4. #8584
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    I didn't say copy. I said capitalize. you know... essentially a synonym for "follow the market trends"? but they also tried to still keep it a story and character focused bioware game and that scattered their focus far FAR too much, making for a less engaging game. IMO.
    It really had nothing to do with Skyrim though. They were trying to fix the problems people had with the DA2 levels while making it open like DA1. They are not very good at the open world aspect. Even DA1 wasn't very strong in that aspect and was relatively basic even though it was not a true open world game. Their strong point has always been story. Which is why DA3 didn't get wide praise as super awesome until the DLC.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  5. #8585
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    It really had nothing to do with Skyrim though. They were trying to fix the problems people had with the DA2 levels while making it open like DA1. They are not very good at the open world aspect. Even DA1 wasn't very strong in that aspect and was relatively basic even though it was not a true open world game. Their strong point has always been story. Which is why DA3 didn't get wide praise as super awesome until the DLC.
    yes, lets ignore the direct quotes from developers themselves about how skyrim changed everything about RPG's and what they look like and what people expect from them.

    the thing about DA2 is that yes, those caves were identical. becasue their development time was too short and they had to cut corners. but the game happening entirely in Kirkwall was INTENTIONAL. it was meant to be somewhat small, focused on a single family, being swept along for the events they couldn't change and could only do their best to survive through.

    dragon age origins while not having the same cave over and over, is NOT an open world, exploratory game. it is tightly contained, within its instances. you can pick and chose which instance to go to, but within them, they are NOT open at all. in that regard DA2 was closer to DAO then DAI to DAO.

    and its the same for original Mass Effect trilogy. exploration is pretty guided, planets unlock as you progress the main story and within them, they are tightly contained and relatively linear. and its necessary in order for the story to be coherent. meanwhile. DAI AND Andromeda, were trying so very hard to give players that open game feel with exploration, and random side activities and all the extra collectibles and bosses that had nothing to do with the story... while still trying to keep it relatively linear in order for the main story to unfold in a logical way.... and it was just.... jarring. but no, they were not trying to correct DA2 same cave syndrome with that. THAT particular issue they were correcting with variety of biomes and environments even within the same zone. but zones getting that much larger and scattered? that was Skyrim's influence. I mean... every goddam RPG that came out around that time was influenced by Skyrim. Some just managed it a bit better then others.
    Last edited by Witchblade77; 2021-02-26 at 11:14 PM.

  6. #8586
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    the thing about DA2 is that yes, those caves were identical. becasue their development time was too short and they had to cut corners. but the game happening entirely in Kirkwall was INTENTIONAL. it was meant to be somewhat small, focused on a single family, being swept along for the events they couldn't change and could only do their best to survive through.
    Of course the design was intentional by the developers. Lol. How could it be otherwise since they are the ones that designed it? I mentioned it because those level designs were one of the big flaws people brought up with the game at the time. DA1 was certainly open with in each level. You weren't restricted by one or two paths because they were essentially open map designs. Most of DA2 were linear levels and far from as open.

    The only thing they tried to do was make an open world game. Influenced by the success of skyrim? Sure. But open world games existed before skyrim. It was an open world games influence and nothing particularly unique to skyrim. It also funny how you say they didn't try to correct DA2 level design but say they did it by creating larger zones with a variety of biomes, environments, and what not. You are simply make arbitrary rules in regards to that. The open world aspect of the game is a direct result of the criticism of DA2 and trying to better cover what people liked about DA1.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  7. #8587
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Of course the design was intentional by the developers. Lol. How could it be otherwise since they are the ones that designed it? I mentioned it because those level designs were one of the big flaws people brought up with the game at the time. DA1 was certainly open with in each level. You weren't restricted by one or two paths because they were essentially open map designs. Most of DA2 were linear levels and far from as open.

    The only thing they tried to do was make an open world game. Influenced by the success of skyrim? Sure. But open world games existed before skyrim. It was an open world games influence and nothing particularly unique to skyrim. It also funny how you say they didn't try to correct DA2 level design but say they did it by creating larger zones with a variety of biomes, environments, and what not. You are simply make arbitrary rules in regards to that. The open world aspect of the game is a direct result of the criticism of DA2 and trying to better cover what people liked about DA1.
    I don't know if I didn't explain it right, or you are misinterpreting it deliberately, so let me try again.

    DAI has caves. it has a LOT of caves. those caves vary greatly in what they look like on the inside. they are no longer the same map. they are not even the same biome. they are roughly the same size or smaller then DA2 caves. but they are far more unique and varied. so yes. they took DA2 criticism to heart and worked on fixing it.

    however. open world design that they tried for? was NOT trying to fix DA2. it was trying to be a more open world game. and sure, there were open world games prior to Skyrim. but it was Skyrim specifically that blew up so much that in many ways it changed what PUBLIC at LARGE expected from RPG's. they literally call out Skyrim. by name.

  8. #8588
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    DAI has caves. it has a LOT of caves. those caves vary greatly in what they look like on the inside. they are no longer the same map. they are not even the same biome. they are roughly the same size or smaller then DA2 caves. but they are far more unique and varied. so yes. they took DA2 criticism to heart and worked on fixing it.
    Which is literally what I said? Lol. Of course the open world design was an attempt to fix the criticisms of DA2 because those criticisms where not just about the caves but all of the level designs. People much preferred the designs of Origin that were not an Open World but were more open then DA2 level's. Skyrim didn't change what people expected from roleplaying games because it isn't anything ground breaking in that regards. And you have things like Fallout New Vegas that came before Skyrim that hits all the same things.

    "You can't look at a game like Skyrim and not think about how impressive what they've accomplished is or [think] that's an interesting new direction or that there was something that didn't work well for them that we could take in a new direction," Flynn said. "So, we're always influenced by these games, especially in a relatively tight-knit genre like RPGs."
    That is what was said about Skyrim. In the same spot they say they are influenced by Skyrim they say they are also influenced by successful RPG game.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  9. #8589
    I find it fascinating how we can look at the same sentence and read it completely differently.

    all I'm saying is interviews like that and the shift from contained zones to a more open, spread out and less linear world is why people compare DAI to Skyrim. because its THAT much of a departure from prior games. literally DA2 closer to DAO in its design then DAI is.

  10. #8590
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    I find it fascinating how we can look at the same sentence and read it completely differently.
    Because you are reading it wrong? Skyrim didn't influence the game any more or less then other critically acclaimed RPG's. There is a reason why he said these games rather then this game. You have yet to supply your direct quotes that say Skyrim changed everything. The quote I provide doesn't say Skyrim changed everything but that it influenced their design just as any RPG has.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  11. #8591
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Because you are reading it wrong? Skyrim didn't influence the game any more or less then other critically acclaimed RPG's. There is a reason why he said these games rather then this game. You have yet to supply your direct quotes that say Skyrim changed everything. The quote I provide doesn't say Skyrim changed everything but that it influenced their design just as any RPG has.
    they bring that game up specifically. it influenced their attempts to make their games more open. it had that. specific. influence. they brought it up for that. specific. reason. yes, they are influenced by other rpg's and you can see echoes of those influences here and there. but it wasn't until skyrim's popularity, WHICH THEY CITED that they have attempted their version of open world, filled with random ..stuff. prior to that, bioware rpg's were a WHOLE lot more linear in every way. I'm honestly not sure what you get out of denying this or Skyrim's influence on the rpg development in general....

  12. #8592
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    they bring that game up specifically. it influenced their attempts to make their games more open.
    It and all of the other critically acclaimed games.

    "So, we're always influenced by these games, especially in a relatively tight-knit genre like RPGs."
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  13. #8593
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Different situations different outcomes.

    There was an attempt, but I bet this technological nightmare was a tad beyond reason to salvage.
    All they needed to do was up the loot drop-rate so people could work on their builds, make some more content and then start working on tweaks to their abilities.

  14. #8594
    The Lightbringer Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    All they needed to do was up the loot drop-rate so people could work on their builds, make some more content and then start working on tweaks to their abilities.
    It honestly seemed like they were intentionally trying to crash and burn the game when they didn't increase the drop rate after that loot shower bug fix.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2021-02-27 at 02:45 PM.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  15. #8595
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    It honestly seemed like they were intentionally trying to crash and burn the game when they didn't increase the drop rate after that loot shower bug fix.
    Or they incompetent to the point they relly on crunch and "bioware magic" to "work in the end". And they run like headless chickens the whole time.

  16. #8596
    honestly, one of the things that bothered me is that you have open world free play... sorta kinda but not really (in addition to story missions needing a group, but at least if you don't mind taking a bit of extra time, you can private your group and solo it anyways). its still a small scale queue. its just... weird. either non mission zones should have been large scale, OR they AND missions should have been solo. I feel like the multiplayer vs single player vs story aspect is what required the most rework. but that's just me.

    P.S. Bioware magic is nothing more then a bunch of talented experienced people who are used to working together - girding their loins and doing what needs to be done, despite terrible leadership. but most of those people have burned out and left it seems. and new replacements and not as experienced or as used to working together despite the leadership.

  17. #8597
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    honestly, one of the things that bothered me is that you have open world free play... sorta kinda but not really (in addition to story missions needing a group, but at least if you don't mind taking a bit of extra time, you can private your group and solo it anyways). its still a small scale queue. its just... weird. either non mission zones should have been large scale, OR they AND missions should have been solo. I feel like the multiplayer vs single player vs story aspect is what required the most rework. but that's just me.

    P.S. Bioware magic is nothing more then a bunch of talented experienced people who are used to working together - girding their loins and doing what needs to be done, despite terrible leadership. but most of those people have burned out and left it seems. and new replacements and not as experienced or as used to working together despite the leadership.
    Destiny 2 has the best open-world aspect of the looter-shooters as it shifts you into different shards or instances as you move around the map so wherever you go there's always someone doing stuff. Just a shame the gameplay was so pedestrian.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    It honestly seemed like they were intentionally trying to crash and burn the game when they didn't increase the drop rate after that loot shower bug fix.
    I think they were massively overconfident and thought they could provide a well-planned and executed endgame instead of just throwing loot at everyone. They'd probably have done better just throwing out increasingly better loot and having eternally scaling dungeons so at least there could be an illusion of progression to back up the awesome gameplay.

  18. #8598
    The Lightbringer Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    I think they were massively overconfident and thought they could provide a well-planned and executed endgame instead of just throwing loot at everyone. They'd probably have done better just throwing out increasingly better loot and having eternally scaling dungeons so at least there could be an illusion of progression to back up the awesome gameplay.
    Not sure that was overconfidence when they didn't even know what the game will be about gameplay wise when they revealed it on E3. I think it was panic mode. They just wanted to push out w/e playable thing they got and fix it lately. In a true "live service" fashion.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2021-03-01 at 10:02 PM.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

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