Anthem: Bioware's next Mass Effect-like IP

[Kilpi]

Eh, I'd probably compare it more to the Shadow Broker DLC in 2. 3's was just a bunch of fan service. Granted, it was amazing fan service, but it didn't really change anything about the greater story.

But doing significant DLC to a last entry in a trilogy is quite a lot harder, because it really has to be in the middle of the game. ME1 and ME2 DLC's could easily be done to be more like tie-in between entries (especially Shadow Broker).

[Yriel]

DAI + Trespasser was pretty damn good. Mediocre? Pray tell how so. The whole Dread Wolf story was really good. DAI alone without that was not stellar because the real main plot was hidden all along and Corypheus was just a byproduct of that, but Trespasser totally tied everything together in a grand way.

Since i didn't like the main game i never bought the dlc...

[Darknessvamp]

Bioware:
- Messes up Dragon Age 2
- Messes up Mass Effect 3's ending and epilogue dlc
- The Old Republic just sort of exists, like a force ghost pre-sequels version.
- Releases Dargon Aeg Inquistion which is very divisive (some people love it for breaking away from both of the prior games, even more hate it/find it terrible in comparison to Origin)
- Releases dumpster fire Mass Effect Andro-can-we-do-one-again?-meda
- Completely cocks up Anthem
- Is already dicking around with the HD version of Mass Effect series
- Has hit the reset on Dragon Age Next One twice and if news is to believed is about to do it once again after having to live service enable it all this time.
- Want to squeeze out another mainline Mass Effect but don't know what to do with it.

How can anyone be optimistic for these developers? Especially when all the old Bioware employees who worked on the original Baulder's Gate, KOTOR, Mass Effect and DA:O have all moved on to other companies?

[ldev]

As it should be. The game failed and that's it.

Looking forward to DA:4.

Final Fantasy mmo also failed, it didn't prevented them to rework and launch again. So it wasn't "that's it".

Game base systems were fine and fun - flying was awesome, shooting was fine. They just needed story and loot and raids.

[Witchblade77]

problem with DAI IMO was that it was trying very VERY hard to capitalize on success of Skyrim. so there is a lot, and i mean a LOT of filler there, but at the same time its damn near impossible to tell until after you do it - which side quests are necessary to progress companion stories and which are just... there as filler. yes, there are side quests, not just main quests that progress companions.

its just... becomes tedious. there is a reason why the most common refrain to someone just starting to play DAI is "leave the Hinterlands" because you can spend way WAY too much time in that zone and to add insult to injury - a lot of the content that you might start there, cannot be finished until AFTER you leave hinterlands, do story elsewhere and that way unlock progress for those stories you have started, or that were too high level for you. Andromeda doubles down on that particular mechanic like there is no tomorrow, because somehow Bioware mistook, people liking their game DESPITE of this mess - as people liking it BECAUSE of it.

Anthem..... Anthem has promise but it also feels unfinished. probably cause it is. but it suffers greatly from people no longer willing to overlook its flaws for its good parts.

recent bioware games are not significantly worse then their earlier games. of you objectively play through their classics - boy do they have issues. yes, DAO as well. but people were more willing to forgive them for those issues.

[Baconeggcheese]

Has hit the reset on Dragon Age Next One twice and if news is to believed is about to do it once again after having to live service enable it all this time.

If that's true its pretty sad for the company. Supposedly this has been thee exact issue that has caused the prior games to fail, just really poor leadership that lacks direction and constant overhauls. Its what caused at least andromeda to fail and then anthem repeated all of andromedas mistakes. If they're going for round 3 its really damning on their current leadership which is nutty since so many people have left the company after Anthem.

[zealo]

problem with DAI IMO was that it was trying very VERY hard to capitalize on success of Skyrim. so there is a lot, and i mean a LOT of filler there, but at the same time its damn near impossible to tell until after you do it - which side quests are necessary to progress companion stories and which are just... there as filler. yes, there are side quests, not just main quests that progress companions.

its just... becomes tedious. there is a reason why the most common refrain to someone just starting to play DAI is "leave the Hinterlands" because you can spend way WAY too much time in that zone and to add insult to injury - a lot of the content that you might start there, cannot be finished until AFTER you leave hinterlands, do story elsewhere and that way unlock progress for those stories you have started, or that were too high level for you. Andromeda doubles down on that particular mechanic like there is no tomorrow, because somehow Bioware mistook, people liking their game DESPITE of this mess - as people liking it BECAUSE of it.

Anthem..... Anthem has promise but it also feels unfinished. probably cause it is. but it suffers greatly from people no longer willing to overlook its flaws for its good parts.

recent bioware games are not significantly worse then their earlier games. of you objectively play through their classics - boy do they have issues. yes, DAO as well. but people were more willing to forgive them for those issues.

I seriously don't understand why so many people are so intent on comparing DA:I to Skyrim.

There's an absolute ton of things about the format and design of that game that separates it from how Bethesda games work. It takes more than a game having a more open level design for it to be trying to ape after Skyrim.

What happened there was rather Bioware pivoting on the feedback to how cramped the level design in DA2 was, and the amount of reuse of locations there.

[Witchblade77]

I seriously don't understand why so many people are so intent on comparing DA:I to Skyrim.

There's an absolute ton of things about the format and design of that game that separates it from how Bethesda games work. It takes more than a game having a more open level design for it to be trying to ape after Skyrim.

What happened there was rather Bioware pivoting on the feedback to how cramped the level design in DA2 was, and the amount of reuse of locations there.

... because I'm pretty sure they themselves stated it as a sort of goal. to have a more open world with all kinds of stuff to do with it ala Skyrim. there you go. https://gamerant.com/dragon-age-inqu...ep-rpg-skyrim/

and yes it does take more, which is why DAI, let alone Andromeda's take on it didn't quite work.

[zealo]

... because I'm pretty sure they themselves stated it as a sort of goal. to have a more open world with all kinds of stuff to do with it ala Skyrim. there you go. https://gamerant.com/dragon-age-inqu...ep-rpg-skyrim/

and yes it does take more, which is why DAI, let alone Andromeda's take on it didn't quite work.

You're reading too much into that article if you think the actual game that came out was an attempt to be just like Skyrim, rather than just having market trends in mind while putting their own spin on things.

There's too many things about the game they actually put out that wildly diverges from how Bethesda does things for comparisons like that with the finished product to hold up.

[Gaidax]

Final Fantasy mmo also failed, it didn't prevented them to rework and launch again. So it wasn't "that's it".

Game base systems were fine and fun - flying was awesome, shooting was fine. They just needed story and loot and raids.

Different situations different outcomes.

There was an attempt, but I bet this technological nightmare was a tad beyond reason to salvage.

[Witchblade77]

You're reading too much into that article if you think the actual game that came out was an attempt to be just like Skyrim, rather than just having market trends in mind while putting their own spin on things.

There's too many things about the game they actually put out that wildly diverges from how Bethesda does things for comparisons like that with the finished product to hold up.

market trends set by Skyrim.

and this is what I at least actualy said in my earlier post that I assumed you were replying to since yours was right under it

problem with DAI IMO was that it was trying very VERY hard to capitalize on success of Skyrim

I didn't say copy. I said capitalize. you know... essentially a synonym for "follow the market trends"? but they also tried to still keep it a story and character focused bioware game and that scattered their focus far FAR too much, making for a less engaging game. IMO.

[rhorle]

I didn't say copy. I said capitalize. you know... essentially a synonym for "follow the market trends"? but they also tried to still keep it a story and character focused bioware game and that scattered their focus far FAR too much, making for a less engaging game. IMO.

It really had nothing to do with Skyrim though. They were trying to fix the problems people had with the DA2 levels while making it open like DA1. They are not very good at the open world aspect. Even DA1 wasn't very strong in that aspect and was relatively basic even though it was not a true open world game. Their strong point has always been story. Which is why DA3 didn't get wide praise as super awesome until the DLC.

[Witchblade77]

It really had nothing to do with Skyrim though. They were trying to fix the problems people had with the DA2 levels while making it open like DA1. They are not very good at the open world aspect. Even DA1 wasn't very strong in that aspect and was relatively basic even though it was not a true open world game. Their strong point has always been story. Which is why DA3 didn't get wide praise as super awesome until the DLC.

yes, lets ignore the direct quotes from developers themselves about how skyrim changed everything about RPG's and what they look like and what people expect from them.

the thing about DA2 is that yes, those caves were identical. becasue their development time was too short and they had to cut corners. but the game happening entirely in Kirkwall was INTENTIONAL. it was meant to be somewhat small, focused on a single family, being swept along for the events they couldn't change and could only do their best to survive through.

dragon age origins while not having the same cave over and over, is NOT an open world, exploratory game. it is tightly contained, within its instances. you can pick and chose which instance to go to, but within them, they are NOT open at all. in that regard DA2 was closer to DAO then DAI to DAO.

and its the same for original Mass Effect trilogy. exploration is pretty guided, planets unlock as you progress the main story and within them, they are tightly contained and relatively linear. and its necessary in order for the story to be coherent. meanwhile. DAI AND Andromeda, were trying so very hard to give players that open game feel with exploration, and random side activities and all the extra collectibles and bosses that had nothing to do with the story... while still trying to keep it relatively linear in order for the main story to unfold in a logical way.... and it was just.... jarring. but no, they were not trying to correct DA2 same cave syndrome with that. THAT particular issue they were correcting with variety of biomes and environments even within the same zone. but zones getting that much larger and scattered? that was Skyrim's influence. I mean... every goddam RPG that came out around that time was influenced by Skyrim. Some just managed it a bit better then others.

[rhorle]

the thing about DA2 is that yes, those caves were identical. becasue their development time was too short and they had to cut corners. but the game happening entirely in Kirkwall was INTENTIONAL. it was meant to be somewhat small, focused on a single family, being swept along for the events they couldn't change and could only do their best to survive through.

Of course the design was intentional by the developers. Lol. How could it be otherwise since they are the ones that designed it? I mentioned it because those level designs were one of the big flaws people brought up with the game at the time. DA1 was certainly open with in each level. You weren't restricted by one or two paths because they were essentially open map designs. Most of DA2 were linear levels and far from as open.

The only thing they tried to do was make an open world game. Influenced by the success of skyrim? Sure. But open world games existed before skyrim. It was an open world games influence and nothing particularly unique to skyrim. It also funny how you say they didn't try to correct DA2 level design but say they did it by creating larger zones with a variety of biomes, environments, and what not. You are simply make arbitrary rules in regards to that. The open world aspect of the game is a direct result of the criticism of DA2 and trying to better cover what people liked about DA1.

[Witchblade77]

Of course the design was intentional by the developers. Lol. How could it be otherwise since they are the ones that designed it? I mentioned it because those level designs were one of the big flaws people brought up with the game at the time. DA1 was certainly open with in each level. You weren't restricted by one or two paths because they were essentially open map designs. Most of DA2 were linear levels and far from as open.

The only thing they tried to do was make an open world game. Influenced by the success of skyrim? Sure. But open world games existed before skyrim. It was an open world games influence and nothing particularly unique to skyrim. It also funny how you say they didn't try to correct DA2 level design but say they did it by creating larger zones with a variety of biomes, environments, and what not. You are simply make arbitrary rules in regards to that. The open world aspect of the game is a direct result of the criticism of DA2 and trying to better cover what people liked about DA1.

I don't know if I didn't explain it right, or you are misinterpreting it deliberately, so let me try again.

DAI has caves. it has a LOT of caves. those caves vary greatly in what they look like on the inside. they are no longer the same map. they are not even the same biome. they are roughly the same size or smaller then DA2 caves. but they are far more unique and varied. so yes. they took DA2 criticism to heart and worked on fixing it.

however. open world design that they tried for? was NOT trying to fix DA2. it was trying to be a more open world game. and sure, there were open world games prior to Skyrim. but it was Skyrim specifically that blew up so much that in many ways it changed what PUBLIC at LARGE expected from RPG's. they literally call out Skyrim. by name.

[rhorle]

DAI has caves. it has a LOT of caves. those caves vary greatly in what they look like on the inside. they are no longer the same map. they are not even the same biome. they are roughly the same size or smaller then DA2 caves. but they are far more unique and varied. so yes. they took DA2 criticism to heart and worked on fixing it.

Which is literally what I said? Lol. Of course the open world design was an attempt to fix the criticisms of DA2 because those criticisms where not just about the caves but all of the level designs. People much preferred the designs of Origin that were not an Open World but were more open then DA2 level's. Skyrim didn't change what people expected from roleplaying games because it isn't anything ground breaking in that regards. And you have things like Fallout New Vegas that came before Skyrim that hits all the same things.

"You can't look at a game like Skyrim and not think about how impressive what they've accomplished is or [think] that's an interesting new direction or that there was something that didn't work well for them that we could take in a new direction," Flynn said. "So, we're always influenced by these games, especially in a relatively tight-knit genre like RPGs."

That is what was said about Skyrim. In the same spot they say they are influenced by Skyrim they say they are also influenced by successful RPG game.

[Witchblade77]

I find it fascinating how we can look at the same sentence and read it completely differently.

all I'm saying is interviews like that and the shift from contained zones to a more open, spread out and less linear world is why people compare DAI to Skyrim. because its THAT much of a departure from prior games. literally DA2 closer to DAO in its design then DAI is.

[rhorle]

I find it fascinating how we can look at the same sentence and read it completely differently.

Because you are reading it wrong? Skyrim didn't influence the game any more or less then other critically acclaimed RPG's. There is a reason why he said these games rather then this game. You have yet to supply your direct quotes that say Skyrim changed everything. The quote I provide doesn't say Skyrim changed everything but that it influenced their design just as any RPG has.

[Witchblade77]

Because you are reading it wrong? Skyrim didn't influence the game any more or less then other critically acclaimed RPG's. There is a reason why he said these games rather then this game. You have yet to supply your direct quotes that say Skyrim changed everything. The quote I provide doesn't say Skyrim changed everything but that it influenced their design just as any RPG has.

they bring that game up specifically. it influenced their attempts to make their games more open. it had that. specific. influence. they brought it up for that. specific. reason. yes, they are influenced by other rpg's and you can see echoes of those influences here and there. but it wasn't until skyrim's popularity, WHICH THEY CITED that they have attempted their version of open world, filled with random ..stuff. prior to that, bioware rpg's were a WHOLE lot more linear in every way. I'm honestly not sure what you get out of denying this or Skyrim's influence on the rpg development in general....

[rhorle]

they bring that game up specifically. it influenced their attempts to make their games more open.

It and all of the other critically acclaimed games.

"So, we're always influenced by these games, especially in a relatively tight-knit genre like RPGs."