The Arena Mentality in WoW

[Theed]

@Plebianx (Join date Jun 2017??)
Opinions. Just because you don't like it or are bad at it does not make it what you made up in your posts. Competetive arena players are passionate. Without passionate players the game would be dead today. Calling arena a minigame is lunacy. If you want it removed you should better quit the game because that will never happpen.

I agree that it might be very frustrating to get in arenas without any experience. But it is not impossible. Start working on your attitude. Stick on your class and don't reroll to everything fotm.

Are arenas perfect? No way! But they are unique and climbing the ladder can be very satisfying. However losing in wow arenas can be very frustrating too. Many times the enemy comp or fotm specs are blamed instead of own mistakes. People that beat us are generally bad. The reason for that is the age of the game. Most players think of themselves as gods that mastered their specs ages ago. This can be seen in many aspects of the game and arenas are not the reason for that.

In vanilla and BC duels ment something and were fun. But Duels and world pvp became stale when every spec got huge amounts of self healing or oneshot buttons. If i remember correctly the introduction of Death Knights killed any incentive to do duels for me since then.

The game's biggest issue is class design. Seperating pve and pvp was a great move. However the classes are still designed with pve in mind. Their pve-design fingerprint can be seen in some honor talents and that needs to change.

Some players consider MoP the best time for arenas, some Wotlk or BC. I prefer Wotlk and BC. But i think that has more to do with the person and not the game. I was younger, had much more time and other priorities. Today i have 5-10% of the time i had back then and no longer play to get glad. I play to have fun.

[Deleted]

@Plebianx (Join date Jun 2017??)
Opinions. Just because you don't like it or are bad at it does not make it what you made up in your posts. Competetive arena players are passionate. Without passionate players the game would be dead today. Calling arena a minigame is lunacy. If you want it removed you should better quit the game because that will never happpen.

I agree that it might be very frustrating to get in arenas without any experience. But it is not impossible. Start working on your attitude. Stick on your class and don't reroll to everything fotm.

Are arenas perfect? No way! But they are unique and climbing the ladder can be very satisfying. However losing in wow arenas can be very frustrating too. Many times the enemy comp or fotm specs are blamed instead of own mistakes. People that beat us are generally bad. The reason for that is the age of the game. Most players think of themselves as gods that mastered their specs ages ago. This can be seen in many aspects of the game and arenas are not the reason for that.

In vanilla and BC duels ment something and were fun. But Duels and world pvp became stale when every spec got huge amounts of self healing or oneshot buttons. If i remember correctly the introduction of Death Knights killed any incentive to do duels for me since then.

The game's biggest issue is class design. Seperating pve and pvp was a great move. However the classes are still designed with pve in mind. Their pve-design fingerprint can be seen in some honor talents and that needs to change.

Some players consider MoP the best time for arenas, some Wotlk or BC. I prefer Wotlk and BC. But i think that has more to do with the person and not the game. I was younger, had much more time and other priorities. Today i have 5-10% of the time i had back then and no longer play to get glad. I play to have fun.

I'll reiterate my answer to someone else to explain to you what I want from this below:

Stat templates are bad, add resilience back into the game, bring health pools and damage back to normal amounts like 25k - 40k health pools depending on class/spec and bring damage back down to a maximum of 4k - 6k per hit etc, etc.

We should be allowed to progress in all aspects of PvP, and there's an easy way to do that, add the old Vanilla honor system so we can gain rank titles again and for each rank you can buy a certain piece of gear, just like TBC/WOTLK style arena rating on each gear piece.

And for each rank, you get a different glorious tyranny weapon enchant in different colors as you go up that can be customized, like you'll be able to add other effects to your enchants like mongoose lightening or perhaps an avalanche effect. And a different tabard that'll have improved details for each rank you go up in and also you could have it so you can customize the color of your tabard if you get 100 wins in BGs so players will feel motivated to do BGs as well, you will be able to obtain a different types of mounts towards the last couple of ranks, like for example High Warlord will have the armored version of a drake, the Warlord will have a lesser armored one and so on forth.

No more RNG, no more timegating, players receive their rewards immediately via mail so they can move onto the next rank.

I'm actually even wondering about adding even more ranks beyond High Warlord, like High Death-King or something awesome sounding to suit your rank.

If we add rewards to make players feel like they actually earned something and then they see what they'll get if they push to the next mile, that'll motivate them to push even further up the rank system.

And I can imagine a lot of players wanting in on this kind of system, who wouldn't, it practically allows EVERYBODY to participate and receive rewards in some form and shape and have fun in the process as well.

Also I've played WoW for 12 years, experience is far from the problem, it's the fact that arenas is a minigame that takes no skill and that's saturating PvP to the point where it's the ONLY thing that offers you rewards for killing players.

It simply isn't what World of Warcraft represents, World of Warcraft PvP is all about huge battlefields and insane 40 vs 40 fights, duels between players to determine who's the better player, fun city raids where you take over and kill the faction leader.

That's World of Warcraft, that's the symbolic essence of WoW PvP, not this MOBA/COD style 3v3 team deathmatch in a claustrophobic box with barely any sunlight coming in.

[ilik2345]

I'll reiterate my answer to someone else to explain to you what I want from this below:



Also I've played WoW for 12 years, experience is far from the problem, it's the fact that arenas is a minigame that takes no skill and that's saturating PvP to the point where it's the ONLY thing that offers you rewards for killing players.

It simply isn't what World of Warcraft represents, World of Warcraft PvP is all about huge battlefields and insane 40 vs 40 fights, duels between players to determine who's the better player, fun city raids where you take over and kill the faction leader.

That's World of Warcraft, that's the symbolic essence of WoW PvP, not this MOBA/COD style 3v3 team deathmatch in a claustrophobic box with barely any sunlight coming in.

A lot of players who pvp dislike 40vs40 games as they are too big and a single player, or heck even a group of five have very little effect on the outcome.

There seems to be a lot of rose tinted glasses mentality about world pvp in vannilla, for me it was never fun, i never saw the appeal of one sided fights, either winning or losing.

I prefer rbgs over arena, and while i sympathize that rating is overemphasized by individuals, it does not diminish the fact they worked as a team to achieve that. Have a look at the arena qualifiers if you need a example of skilled players.

I do very much miss being able to duel between rated games, it used to be a good way of learning, you could duel classes you were weak against to improve, with the current odd rules in world pvp all that is gone.

[Rehija]

arena rating on each gear piece

This is the one point were i disagree. Regarding gear i think the WoD system had it all, if we would go back to rating requirements to obtain gear / weapons the same bullshit as it was would come back again were certain classes ( Flavor of the Month ) had a huge advantage in getting the gear while other classes had to struggle twice as hard to get the same stuff.

I do support the shift from arenas to RBG`s as the "Face of WoW PvP" with one restriction; classlock it to 10 different classes in an RBG Team, no stacking.

[VladimirM]

It's the same in every pvp game. Go check League of Legends for example, 80% of chat typed there is "you bronzie, you silver, you gold, you plat, you diamond noob" It's about people who are bad, not the game. Stop blaming game for toxicity of the people.

[Thoughtful Trolli]

The *whole point* of arena is to simulate raping and being raped by an opponent.

Any proposal to make it less of that or anything otherwise cannot work, is ill advised, and the fact that someone would make such a proposal shows it's a step in the right direction to make someone that angry. Someone like that is better off not touching the entire subject at all, and if they rolled on a pvp server or tried some arena, that's their fault.

It's the same in every pvp game. Go check League of Legends for example, 80% of chat typed there is "you bronzie, you silver, you gold, you plat, you diamond noob" It's about people who are bad, not the game. Stop blaming game for toxicity of the people.

The game contributes by rewarding it, with a rating requirement system that cannot be grinding, which is contrarian to the origination of video gaming. This is more like video sporting, and the first pioneers of video games wanted nothing to do with sporting.

That being said, it's supposed to be rewarded, they are supposed to be this way. We just have to tell someone with a grind mindset they aren't allowed to play, especially if they're going to complain about losing.

[Eyzen]

You sound like someone who can't get past 1.6k rating xd

[Dalinos]

I'll reiterate my answer to someone else to explain to you what I want from this below:



Also I've played WoW for 12 years, experience is far from the problem, it's the fact that arenas is a minigame that takes no skill and that's saturating PvP to the point where it's the ONLY thing that offers you rewards for killing players.

It simply isn't what World of Warcraft represents, World of Warcraft PvP is all about huge battlefields and insane 40 vs 40 fights, duels between players to determine who's the better player, fun city raids where you take over and kill the faction leader.

That's World of Warcraft, that's the symbolic essence of WoW PvP, not this MOBA/COD style 3v3 team deathmatch in a claustrophobic box with barely any sunlight coming in.

The only reason people are asking for your ratings is cause ratings can be checked, anything else you claim (stomping R1 glads) cannot. At the very least, lifetime HK's, shows how much BG/WPVP you have done.

That being said, I agree with most you say. Arena in TBC/WOTLK was much better than what it became after it. I think the turning point was Cataclysm, where they gave everyone abit of everything. Mages/hunters/rogues with self-heals? what? Back in the day, said class would have to CC their target, go hide and bandage up. And while those Bandages gave a small edge, they certainly didn't fill you up to 100% in 5 seconds or some shit.

But your macro bashing? That I don't agree with. Use of macros is what distinguished decent players from beginners, and I can tell you as a Feral druid I used macros -extensively- during that era (hence my 2k 2v2/3v3 and 10-wins-in-a-row-over-1800 achievements). I had abilities that I needed to constantly use in all 3 forms, and trying to do so without macros would be suicide.

Armory: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch...n-mill/dalinos

[slime]

You sound like someone who can't get past 1.6k rating xd

Must not be playing the right class.

[melzas]

Arena is about the skill, you are trying to dismiss it, but it's a very competitive mini game, where reflex, decision making, team play and game knowledge matter.

World pvp is about ganking people, engaging in unfair fights, where skill is just a bonus. And the game is just not balanced around duels, so they don't matter at all. People do them in between arena queues and out of boredom, but no one sane would claim them to be a test of superiority most of the time.

Your rant on arena makes it kinda obvious that you suck at it and try to convince yourself (and others) that it's not because you are bad, but because the concept is flawed. That's quite pathetic.

[Sencha]

World pvp is even worse than arenas.

[Deleted]

Arena is about the skill, you are trying to dismiss it, but it's a very competitive mini game, where reflex, decision making, team play and game knowledge matter.

World pvp is about ganking people, engaging in unfair fights, where skill is just a bonus. And the game is just not balanced around duels, so they don't matter at all. People do them in between arena queues and out of boredom, but no one sane would claim them to be a test of superiority most of the time.

Your rant on arena makes it kinda obvious that you suck at it and try to convince yourself (and others) that it's not because you are bad, but because the concept is flawed. That's quite pathetic.

It isn't about skill and already you're assuming that I'm bad at this minigame when I've already expressed no actual interest in it, so I don't know why you keep on going about it, rating =/= skill. I've been stomping Glads and R1s for years and that alone just goes to show just how useless rating really is.

You could have the highest rating possible, getting glad EVERY single season, you're a super fucking hardcore minigamer and still lose to some 1500 player who's actually pretty decent at 1v1ing and knows what to do in a situation like that.

Rating =/= skill, pretty straightforward.

As for your World PvP remark, unfair fights? You literally have 40 players fighting 40 players and if you ever found yourself getting ganked in 3.3.5 WOTLK, you could legitimately still outplay this gank squad through skill, when unpruned abilities was still a thing. The game is balanced around PvE, therefore anything WPvP related is intended, note that I'm still talking about pre Cataclysm WoW here and not post Cataclysm, any expansion after WOTLK is a lost cause and we can't really salvage it.

Duels used to be a demonstration of how one was better than the other, you most likely sucked at dueling and therefore stuck to this minigame to feel good about yourself, did you even read the OP? It describes people like you in there.

Also reflex lmao, yeah spamming arena123 macro and polymorphing some pleb that you saw right slightly popping out from LOS without even switching from your main target is truly reflex, isn't it? Give me a break.

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World pvp is even worse than arenas.

Something tells me you've never played before Cataclysm.

[Deleted]

The arenas as cancer.. they should have separate servers for them.. arenas are why healers are always so OP, arenas are why world pvp and BGs always sucks. I wish they removed them or something.. they ruin PvP.

[ONCHEhap]

Arena always was a dick measuring minigame for insecure people anyways,you can see it from the replies this thread got too.

Yeah,WoW is a PvE oriented open world game,arena is a minigame within the game,even BGs are arguably the same,get over it.



inb4 : "you're not even glad STFU" or "lol I'm sure you're below 1.6K rating" because that's their only argument

[Deleted]

The only reason people are asking for your ratings is cause ratings can be checked, anything else you claim (stomping R1 glads) cannot. At the very least, lifetime HK's, shows how much BG/WPVP you have done.

That being said, I agree with most you say. Arena in TBC/WOTLK was much better than what it became after it. I think the turning point was Cataclysm, where they gave everyone abit of everything. Mages/hunters/rogues with self-heals? what? Back in the day, said class would have to CC their target, go hide and bandage up. And while those Bandages gave a small edge, they certainly didn't fill you up to 100% in 5 seconds or some shit.

But your macro bashing? That I don't agree with. Use of macros is what distinguished decent players from beginners, and I can tell you as a Feral druid I used macros -extensively- during that era (hence my 2k 2v2/3v3 and 10-wins-in-a-row-over-1800 achievements). I had abilities that I needed to constantly use in all 3 forms, and trying to do so without macros would be suicide.

Armory: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch...n-mill/dalinos

They're not claims, I literally stomped Glads and R1s, you know that Drainerxgodxtv or whatever his name is? He played on the private server I played at the time and he dueled me, I ended up making an embarrassment out of him because he clearly didn't have any individual skills and fully relied on a healer and an extra DPs to help him score victories and kills.

My point about the minigame back in TBC/WOTLK was that it was a minigame, it was never good or better, it's just the same thing but with more abilities.

Distinguished? I'm talking about arena123 macros, when you press these macros you are fully able to attack a single target and two other targets without ever having to turn or switch from the current select target to cast spells. That is not distinguishing yourself from beginners because these beginners can also use the same macros and do the same thing you do.

You seem to have missed the memo I've tried to get everyone to see, I'm talking about INDIVIDUAL skill, not your teamwork skills because if we're gonna talk about that then let's just reward AFKers in BGs right now, they're in a team, their team is winning but he's AFKing. SKILL.

A player can be boosted or carried in 3s, they can be piloted. But in a duel, you can't get boosted or piloted, well you could technically pay someone to log your character to kick this guy's ass in a duel but that's just downright retarded and a waste of money. Point is that in a duel, it is ONLY you and the enemy, nobody else is going to help you here, you have to use your own individual skills to outplay the opponent and score a victory.

Most arena players can't do that due to increased reliance on teammates over the years, it's scary just how bad they really are when you duel them, you start to see the missing chunks of skill that they *should* have after getting such a rating in arenas, but it isn't really there. All this fanboying about how R1s and Glads are the best of the best is just ridiculous because any one of these morons can get stomped in a duel by a decent player who knows how to 1v1 well and has fantastic reflexes.

Again, I was talking about pre Cataclysm WoW, so there's no Legion in the picture, or any other expansion. My OP was mostly about how the changes made for arenas has started to affect duels and World PvP in general in order to please the minority of players who seem to think arenas = skill when it really isn't.

And that's something I wanted to see change, because I don't want to be forced to do a minigame in order to get some rewards or to get some pseudo-PvP action, I want to be able to do actual World PvP and have players recognize that one is a good player when nobody can beat him in a duel.

It was never about the gear, in fact back in WOTLK I would equip T5 PvE gear on my Warrior that has been my main class for 12 years and duel full Wrathful geared players and still win. It was about the skill, it was about outplaying them, it was about knowing what to do when under pressure and these Gladiators/R1s don't have that. I've seen how they play and how they duel, they're so bad at it because like I said, the reliance on teammates is prevalent in their gameplay 1v1.

I honestly don't care about your armory link as I'm not going to click on it, if you can't beat anybody 1v1 then that's already proof enough that you're not exactly as capable as you'd think you are. And getting higher rating in that minigame of yours isn't going to change that anytime soon, if anything, it'll make it worse for you as your increased reliance on teammates to fix your mistakes for you is just going to mess up the way you play individually.

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Arena always was a dick measuring minigame for insecure people anyways,you can see it from the replies this thread got too.

Yeah,WoW is a PvE oriented open world game,arena is a minigame within the game,even BGs are arguably the same,get over it.



inb4 : "you're not even glad STFU" or "lol I'm sure you're below 1.6K rating" because that's their only argument

Seems like we're both on the same wavelength, they really do sound insecure.

I despise arenas and the community it's created from existing.

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You sound like someone who can't get past 1.6k rating xd

Arena always was a dick measuring minigame for insecure people anyways,you can see it from the replies this thread got too.

Yeah,WoW is a PvE oriented open world game,arena is a minigame within the game,even BGs are arguably the same,get over it.



inb4 : "you're not even glad STFU" or "lol I'm sure you're below 1.6K rating" because that's their only argument

I think this post kinda says it all.

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It's the same in every pvp game. Go check League of Legends for example, 80% of chat typed there is "you bronzie, you silver, you gold, you plat, you diamond noob" It's about people who are bad, not the game. Stop blaming game for toxicity of the people.

My point in the OP that arenas has simply amplified that toxic mentality 10 times over because of the sheer competitiveness players feel about this minigame.

It's just unhealthy for World of Warcraft and honestly needs to go, or create separate servers and put all the arena players on there so they can keep on arguing about unimportant rating and titles for the rest of their lives while the rest of us can play World of Warcraft properly.

[Schmeebs]

Im sorry duels are a rock paper scissors game 99% of the time. They are not the barometer of skill (and never have been).

Your entire post is nonsensical, in Wotlk you could have equipped gear from SSC/TK and beat someone in full glad gear? No, thats not possible because the person in wrathful gear would kill you in 2-3 hits.

[Deleted]

Im sorry duels are a rock paper scissors game 99% of the time. They are not the barometer of skill (and never have been).

Your entire post is nonsensical, in Wotlk you could have equipped gear from SSC/TK and beat someone in full glad gear? No, thats not possible because the person in wrathful gear would kill you in 2-3 hits.

Allow me to show you a PvP video I made in WOTLK where I dueled a player in full WF gear while being in full Relentless gear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5V5a_p0mqI Skip to the 3:24 mark to get to the point I was talking about, that's real outplaying, that's real PvP right there. Feel free to watch the whole video though, some cool stuff in there you can watch. That was on AT when I was still playing there.

Notice how I kite him when his shield wall + shield block and enraged regen is up and I keep mortal strike applied?

Notice how when I use enraged regen, I time it for when his mortal strike comes off me and I immediately disarm and pop it so I can benefit from more healing and I kite him the whole time so he can't damage me?

Notice how I use piercing howl to keep him at a distance so he doesn't do big dick damage to me all the time?

That's outplaying, that's skill. That's real PvP, bud.

Duels were a real way of showing skill and everybody who was decent at the game knew it, sorry.

Enjoy the video

[Lykaboss]

youre not even worth the time that will be spent wasted informing you of how wrong you are. All this post tells me is that it was wrote by a salty wanna be pvper who cant understand arena synergy

[Deleted]

The arenas as cancer.. they should have separate servers for them.. arenas are why healers are always so OP, arenas are why world pvp and BGs always sucks. I wish they removed them or something.. they ruin PvP.

Agreed, it's just unhealthy for a MMORPG game to have elements of a MOBA in it. It just doesn't work at all, some people might enjoy it but the majority don't because they didn't come to play League of Legends, they came to play a MMORPG and the PvP in MMORPGs are usually World PvP elements like duels, BGs and open world fights.

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youre not even worth the time that will be spent wasted informing you of how wrong you are. All this post tells me is that it was wrote by a salty wanna be pvper who cant understand arena synergy

You play a Demon Hunter, Lykaboss.

And you're not even that good at it, no really, I've seen you play in Rated BGs and you suck at being the TC.

Thanks for posting in here though.

[Deleted]

Agreed, it's just unhealthy for a MMORPG game to have elements of a MOBA in it. It just doesn't work at all, some people might enjoy it but the majority don't because they didn't come to play League of Legends, they came to play a MMORPG and the PvP in MMORPGs are usually World PvP elements like duels, BGs and open world fights.

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You play a Demon Hunter, Lykaboss.

And you're not even that good at it, no really, I've seen you play in Rated BGs and you suck at being the TC.

Thanks for posting in here though.

Exactly! But I doubt Blizzard listens.. instead they try to force their stupid arenas down everyones throats.