LFR - Increase Rewards, Increase Difficulty, Remove Determination.

[Jaylock]

So I had a thought that would make LFR more of a progression path for casual players rather than a slight speed bump in getting epics that it currently is (it is obsolete after the first few weeks of it being open even for alt chars).

Would YOU be fine if Blizzard were to increase the difficulty of LFR (where mechanics actually mattered somewhat), remove determination, and increase the rewards?

So for example, if you walked into Emerald Nightmare LFR, maybe boss health and damage were increased by 15-20%, and a few mechanics actually were threatening, you wouldn't get determination stacks on each wipe, but you got base ilvl 845 instead of 835?

Basically make it to where LFR actually poses some sort of threat to players instead of each boss being a wet noodle that teaches the player basically nothing about the fight. Casual players aren't necessarily just looking for the easiest form of content. Most of them want a challenge of some sort, and the current LFR as it stands does not give them any sort of challenge.

What happens when a player doesn't feel any sort of challenge in the game that they play? They eventually quit because to them they accomplished everything, its over and done.

This is not a suggestion to remove LFR or to try to make it worse, its a suggestion to make LFR better than it currently is.

To the remove determination part: wiping is part of a learning curve. Lets say players go into this proposed LFR and they wipe quite a bit on some of the new Tomb bosses. They might not even complete the wing because the group might not be able to down bosses that have mechanics, BUT players will have learned something from each time they encounter the boss and attempt it, even in this proposed more challenging LFR experience. Eventually players WILL down the bosses and they will be more prepared to enter Normal and other difficulties.

Its not quite Normal, but its getting up there closer to normal in a queued environment.

[Ysho]

Normal difficulty.

[Frolk]

Most ppl who do LFR dont want it to be hard and they got ZERO intentions on improving themself, they want their tourist mode with free loot.

and i say, let em have their tourist mode

[Deleted]

So I had a thought

there's a first for everything.

[Pyro1990]

That would defeat the purpose of LFR. Its not meant to be difficult or to have relatively licrative rewards. If you personally want a challenging raid experience thier are other options (normal + raids). All increasing the difficulty of LFR would do is cause a tidal wave of rage threads on mMO Champ and the official forums calling for it to be nerfed back down.

[ComputerNerd]

Most ppl who do LFR dont want it to be hard and they got ZERO intentions on improving themself, they want their tourist mode with free loot.

and i say, let em have their tourist mode

People who don't need LFR want it brought up to their "expectations".
Perhaps we should start demanding that other difficulties be made easier for us ?
No - if it doesn't apply to you, and you aren't offering constructive opinions then your opinions arent warranted.
That applies both ways.

We don't have the right to make demands on formats that don't apply to us.
That goes for you too.

If you opt to do LFR simply because you can, then you have no legitimacy in complaining about its difficulty.

[deadman1]

Play normal or higher if it's too easy for you.

[Jaylock]

Most ppl who do LFR dont want it to be hard and they got ZERO intentions on improving themself, they want their tourist mode with free loot.

and i say, let em have their tourist mode

But aren't the claims that casual players make that they are good players and just want to play the game with no time commitments valid? Allowing players to queue up to a raid like environment should feel more like a raid rather than a tour. Challenge is not necessarily a bad thing even if it is presented in a queue.

We all know that I don't like the queue system at all and I think it should be removed, but if it isn't going to be removed, can it be improved?

[BigAinCA]

LFR is fine as is...

[Jaylock]

Play normal or higher if it's too easy for you.

What about 2 LFR queues that share a lockout called:

LFR - Tourist Mode (as it currently is)

LFR - Hard Mode (would be my proposed idea)

?

[Lochton]

Nope, nope, nope.

Keep LFR as it is, intro level. Nothing more.

[zezel81]

I believe LFR needs less ilvl = difficulty is like just smash keys and something dies.

[Deleted]

So I had a thought that would make LFR more of a progression path for casual players rather than a slight speed bump in getting epics that it currently is (it is obsolete after the first few weeks of it being open even for alt chars).

Would YOU be fine if Blizzard were to increase the difficulty of LFR (where mechanics actually mattered somewhat), remove determination, and increase the rewards?

LFR players are looking for completion: they want to see the conclusion of the lore and get rewards. They have no interest in becoming better raiders or they would be raiding.

[Aggrophobic]

Or just remove the loot from LFR.
Just have it as a way of seeing all the content without effort.

[Deleted]

Or just remove the loot from LFR.
Just have it as a way of seeing all the content without effort.

I'm not sure that would change anythinge, the gear doesn't generally make much difference to the gameplay of a casual.

[Jaylock]

LFR players are looking for completion: they want to see the conclusion of the lore and get rewards. They have no interest in becoming better raiders or they would be raiding.

So are you saying removing the gear out of the current LFR would be okay then? Because you don't need the gear out of LFR to see the completion of the instance in the current version of LFR.

[tikcol]

Most ppl who do LFR dont want it to be hard and they got ZERO intentions on improving themself, they want their tourist mode with free loot.

and i say, let em have their tourist mode

That's incredibly rude and not factual at all. Believe it or not, LFR raiding is a thing and is quite challenging. You don't even notice when you join a LFR raid because you're basically an outsider.

[Jaylock]

I'm not sure that would change anythinge, the gear doesn't generally make much difference to the gameplay of a casual.

Casual players aren't necessarily bad players or players who don't want any form of challenge. They just might not have the same time to commit as other more hardcore players.

So why not provide at least an option for these casual players to progress with a difficulty that they would be more prone to gravitate toward (normal, but in my proposed LFR, it would be a step below normal on a queue)

[ComputerNerd]

LFR players are looking for completion: they want to see the conclusion of the lore and get rewards. They have no interest in becoming better raiders or they would be raiding.

Or ignorant raiders ignore that commitment is an actual problem for people who aren't them.
Because you do not experience something, it does not mean others do not.
If you focus less of "efficiency" which in reality means minimum effort, then you may attract more players.
LFR quite rightly removes player control from the entry.

Casual players aren't necessarily bad players or players who don't want any form of challenge. They just might not have the same time to commit as other more hardcore players.

So why not provide at least an option for these casual players to progress with a difficulty that they would be more prone to gravitate toward (normal, but in my proposed LFR, it would be a step below normal on a queue)

One of the few times I agree with you.
Casual is too often used by arrogant people as a label equating to unskilled.
No, it is a difficulty with commitment to plans in the same way.
A hardcore can plan and adjust their life around their gaming.
A casual has to adjust their gaming into their life, wherever it will fit.
And that will often be fragmented.

But why must there be "another format" for those who are fortunate to have several options already.
Is there something inherently wrong with normal, which warrants as a fix another format.

[tikcol]

Nope, nope, nope.

Keep LFR as it is, intro level. Nothing more.

It is not "intro level". That's a rude way to put it. There's actually people very serious about LFR raiding which put a lot of effort in them. Just like mythic raiding there's also the stray individual that tries to destroy the raid but that's another problem altogether