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  1. #61
    The Lightbringer Caolela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zayv View Post
    Yeah so it would seem it's not so much of a conspiracy then after all. They could always just, ya know.....make the overall game more challenging, like it was in the good old days. Instead of a faceroll leveling experience followed by an endless RNG hunt for BiS gear and AK.
    Making the game more challenging or fun, or at least backing off on the grind and RNG, would cost more money (overhead) by having to create new content or better ways to go at existing content.

    That cuts into profit. Much cheaper to just have you grind on the same ol' stuff and keep the skinner box going.

  2. #62
    The Lightbringer Lazuli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justpassing View Post
    >pvp in wow

    Yeah I really feel for you

    I'm sorry for being a dick but when was pvp in wow ever balanced? (hint: it's not supposed to be balanced, it's meant to be a rollercoaster)
    WoW has been balanced in many seasons, but like you said it's a rollercoaster.

    Issue with Legion is not even balance but more how mechanically aids it is. Legion honestly it is faceroll as fuck especially when you're rolling a fotm class since Blizz has been extremely slow to fixing broken classes all expansion long. The game has not any depth, r1 does not mean anything anymore.

    Pvp participation seems at an all time low as well, and good luck finding rated bg groups
    The greatest ever thread on MMO-Champion

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  3. #63
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    are people still making these kind of threads nearly a year on from legion release?

    sad.

  4. #64
    The Lightbringer Niwes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caolela View Post
    I've said it 500 times before but looks like it needs to be said again: I'm sure Blizz is much happier for people thinking they're "incompetent" or "just don't care" or "they don't play their own game", instead of the fact that Blizz knows exactly what they're doing and almost all of this bullshit is fully intended.

    Does anyone with more than a few brain cells really think a $4+ billion corp. like Acti is going to suddenly allow totally "incompetent" devs or lead devs to wreck the golden goose that they've made hundreds of millions on over a decade? That is illogical and from a business standpoint is plain stupid.

    Holunki was doing what he was told in the larger sense by his bosses (anything that keeps people subbed longer is good), it was his job to implement the specifics. The problem is, what he/they did to PvP they miscalculated would be so unpopular. They assumed everyone would just keep plowing through it.

    Balance (let's say within a few % points) is the last thing they want in WoW. Blizz has never wanted balance, since that would discourage FotM rerolls which means you're more likely to stay with a single spec/class or just a few and finish what you want for those specs, instead of shelving your main and rerolling the new OP. That in turn means longer time-in-game and hence longer subs. And, the longer you're in-game the greater the chance that you'll spend money in the Blizz Shop or for services, etc.

    Acti/Blizz knows they still have a virtual monopoly on the MMORPG genre, and an army greater than any on Earth of addicted fools willing to keep plopping down money to play it. It almost doesn't matter how many quit until some number is reached that they have to start doing something about. Even then, they throttle back just enough to appease people to stay.
    this is one of the rare posts from ppl with a little bit more in brain than the average mmoc idiot.

    i dont agree to everything exactly in that form, but the mindset you are comin from is around 16353537 times nearer to reality than that horrible shit ppl on mmoc posting/discussing everyday. and with this i dont even include white knights at all.

  5. #65
    I've played this game since mid 2005 ( vanilla ) , it's been a huge part of my life and while I still play it on and off to this day , as a PvP'er you cannot look past the issues let's be real now WOD was miles ahead in terms on PvP ( gearing , class balance , counters ). Everyone said back then that the next expansion will be better and WOD will remain in history as the worst expansion ever made.

    Looking back now , i would give anything to play WOD again compared to this shallow , empty , gearless mini game-mode. Legion is coming to an end and we didn't even get the World PvP balance templates , what is even more sad is the fact that the PvE community is saying nothing's wrong with the expansion and it's best it's ever BEEN turning a blind eye on the PvP situation which makes a very big part of the whole game.

    It's a damn shame what this game has become and im not even talking about the endless RNG on top of RNG grinds , AP grinds , souless community who doesn't even say "hello" anymore when entering a random LFG Dungeon. What's left to say , the only hope this game has in terms of bringing back the PvP community is to scrap everything in this expansion and revert it to WOD standards , but given this whole pruning fiesta it's never gonna be the same.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Caolela View Post
    Making the game more challenging or fun, or at least backing off on the grind and RNG, would cost more money (overhead) by having to create new content or better ways to go at existing content.

    That cuts into profit. Much cheaper to just have you grind on the same ol' stuff and keep the skinner box going.
    The sad truth I'm afraid

    Quote Originally Posted by off3nc3 View Post
    I've played this game since mid 2005 ( vanilla ) , it's been a huge part of my life and while I still play it on and off to this day , as a PvP'er you cannot look past the issues let's be real now WOD was miles ahead in terms on PvP ( gearing , class balance , counters ). Everyone said back then that the next expansion will be better and WOD will remain in history as the worst expansion ever made.

    Looking back now , i would give anything to play WOD again compared to this shallow , empty , gearless mini game-mode. Legion is coming to an end and we didn't even get the World PvP balance templates , what is even more sad is the fact that the PvE community is saying nothing's wrong with the expansion and it's best it's ever BEEN turning a blind eye on the PvP situation which makes a very big part of the whole game.

    It's a damn shame what this game has become and im not even talking about the endless RNG on top of RNG grinds , AP grinds , souless community who doesn't even say "hello" anymore when entering a random LFG Dungeon. What's left to say , the only hope this game has in terms of bringing back the PvP community is to scrap everything in this expansion and revert it to WOD standards , but given this whole pruning fiesta it's never gonna be the same.
    I agree with everything except that WoD pvp was pretty shit for me. I mained Arms in BG's and it was GOD AWFUL the entire expansion. Literally the most boring spec I've ever played. And compared to MoP, it was a damn crime that it was released in that form.

    Not to mention WoD was post oQueue which made premades harder for us non-guilded bros.

  7. #67
    The Lightbringer Caolela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zayv View Post

    Not to mention WoD was post oQueue which made premades harder for us non-guilded bros.
    Yep. I've often said that oQueue was much better than the piece of shit LFG Blizz has now.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Caolela View Post
    Yep. I've often said that oQueue was much better than the piece of shit LFG Blizz has now.
    It's even worse in legion now. I couldn't even get off the ground with an RBG team.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Dracula View Post
    Yeah dude, with all those Warlock/Shaman teams that 1shot in the first 5 secs of every match. Or those Prot Pally Healers. Or 100% ARP Warriors.

    Sure was at the peak of Balance then

    - - - Updated - - -



    Are you fucking serious? Frost mages have been raged at for like 75% of Arena Seasons in WoW. Arcane Mages have at times been raged at for being Broken when they could just AP/POM Arcane Blast people to death within 5 secs. Fire Mages were raged about for having the PoM/Pyro Build for years and 1 shotting people out of Polymorphs.

    You'd be an idiot to think people have never complained about Mages in PvP
    Oh they were raged at all right, but unjustly lol!!!

    Mage is OP though you say???

    Is that why we LOST the arena world champs for the last like 5+ YEARS, if we even made the finals that is???

    You are trying to act like Mage has been OP in recent history, when that isn't true AT ALL!!!

    There are certain other classes like Warrior, Druid, and Shaman that have been HORRIBLY OP in recent history, but since so many of you are lying bads who literally advocate for imbalance, it was Mage who you said was really OP, when we weren't at all.....

    Get your facts straight much there???
    Last edited by MagusHenosis; 2017-07-16 at 12:01 AM.
    "Haters gonna hate, whatcha gonna do?

    They're haters after all, it's what they do!" - The Legend, aka "The Best," aka "The Champ," aka "Speedymage," aka "MagusHenosis," aka "The Grim Reaper of Top Players"

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by MagusHenosis View Post
    Oh they were raged at all right, but unjustly lol!!!

    Mage is OP though you say???

    Is that why we LOST the arena world champs for the last like 5+ YEARS, if we even made the finals that is???

    You are trying to act like Mage has been OP in recent history, when that isn't true AT ALL!!!

    There are certain other classes like Warrior, Druid, and Shaman that have been HORRIBLY OP in recent history, but since so many of you are lying bads who literally advocate for imbalance, it was Mage who you said was really OP, when we weren't at all.....

    Get your facts straight much there???
    Seems you lack comprehension. I never said other classes weren't OP or that Mage was OP now. I responded to his statement that no one had ever raged about Mages ever.

    HUrr fucking durr.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Dracula View Post
    Seems you lack comprehension. I never said other classes weren't OP or that Mage was OP now. I responded to his statement that no one had ever raged about Mages ever.

    HUrr fucking durr.
    No, you didn't say it, but you did in fact IMPLY it!!!!

    Isn't reality fun???

    Not if you are really disconnected from it though right???
    "Haters gonna hate, whatcha gonna do?

    They're haters after all, it's what they do!" - The Legend, aka "The Best," aka "The Champ," aka "Speedymage," aka "MagusHenosis," aka "The Grim Reaper of Top Players"

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by MagusHenosis View Post
    No, you didn't say it, but you did in fact IMPLY it!!!!

    Isn't reality fun???

    Not if you are really disconnected from it though right???
    I mean the fact you are looking for implications in text indeed does show you are pretty disconnected from reality. Have fun with that.

  13. #73
    lulz at people praising wrath arenas... and then the people going off about warriors and hunters, forgetting that RMP was the most stable contender season after season. you had your times with uniquely OP setups (I notice no one mentioning the terribly OP Beastcleave comps) which were the catalysts to some of the big spell changes they made for pvp (like removing bloodlust effects).

    Blizzard has NEVER had balanced pvp. You guys aren't going far enough to see the source problem. It was the foundation of the PVP mini-game from the ground up that was problem. Remember first that Blizzard didn't immediately implement instanced battlegrounds. For the longest time PvP consisted mostly of barrens raids, TM vs SS.. on a whim. When instanced pvp came out, it was an instant hit, but not because it gave players a different way to play.. It was because now the level 60's had something to in between raids and mats farming. Time they might otherwise have logged out, they are now staying in the game in the hopes of making new pvp rank... Which takes us to another part of the foundational problem. When the instanced pvp came out, so did a bragging.... I mean ranking system. I think the worst thing they did at this point was in creating a tangible (in game I mean) benefit to playing pvp. This came in the form of titles next to your name. Gear that was on par, or better, than gear available for the majority game cycle. A rogue getting Grand Fieldmarshall for example, could get the armor that was 2nd to none until naxx. All he had to do was the same thing everyone else was doing: farming honor and farming honor. Not to mention the abuses happening on servers. small groups of players working together at times that only themselves could be the highest rank. Remember, in order to keep your seargent, or knight-captain rank.. you had to keep PVPing, your rank will degrade if you neglect your BG's.

    So yeah, I could continue.. but I will let you build from there. PVP, if it was ever meant to be a unique meta-game to the franchise, they should have used an expack to literally reboot the pvp system and allow class unique game play for PVPers instead of class excluding gameplay, supposedly for PVPers.

    Also, can we go back to needing pvp gear to pvp. There should be a power-curve applied to people who are putting in the work to rank up. this whole "all stats X5 to this cap" system did any favors. You can make gear and control the power-curve as appropriate, but gear is often the best indicator of power level, and allowing it to have some bearing on how a PVP encounter may turn out is a good thing. Just be more vigilant about what classes are doing, not just what classes are there.
    "When you build it, you love it!"

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by bowchikabow View Post
    lulz at people praising wrath arenas... and then the people going off about warriors and hunters, forgetting that RMP was the most stable contender season after season. you had your times with uniquely OP setups (I notice no one mentioning the terribly OP Beastcleave comps) which were the catalysts to some of the big spell changes they made for pvp (like removing bloodlust effects).

    Blizzard has NEVER had balanced pvp. You guys aren't going far enough to see the source problem. It was the foundation of the PVP mini-game from the ground up that was problem. Remember first that Blizzard didn't immediately implement instanced battlegrounds. For the longest time PvP consisted mostly of barrens raids, TM vs SS.. on a whim. When instanced pvp came out, it was an instant hit, but not because it gave players a different way to play.. It was because now the level 60's had something to in between raids and mats farming. Time they might otherwise have logged out, they are now staying in the game in the hopes of making new pvp rank... Which takes us to another part of the foundational problem. When the instanced pvp came out, so did a bragging.... I mean ranking system. I think the worst thing they did at this point was in creating a tangible (in game I mean) benefit to playing pvp. This came in the form of titles next to your name. Gear that was on par, or better, than gear available for the majority game cycle. A rogue getting Grand Fieldmarshall for example, could get the armor that was 2nd to none until naxx. All he had to do was the same thing everyone else was doing: farming honor and farming honor. Not to mention the abuses happening on servers. small groups of players working together at times that only themselves could be the highest rank. Remember, in order to keep your seargent, or knight-captain rank.. you had to keep PVPing, your rank will degrade if you neglect your BG's.

    So yeah, I could continue.. but I will let you build from there. PVP, if it was ever meant to be a unique meta-game to the franchise, they should have used an expack to literally reboot the pvp system and allow class unique game play for PVPers instead of class excluding gameplay, supposedly for PVPers.

    Also, can we go back to needing pvp gear to pvp. There should be a power-curve applied to people who are putting in the work to rank up. this whole "all stats X5 to this cap" system did any favors. You can make gear and control the power-curve as appropriate, but gear is often the best indicator of power level, and allowing it to have some bearing on how a PVP encounter may turn out is a good thing. Just be more vigilant about what classes are doing, not just what classes are there.
    I think that the rewards for doing non rated PvP should be MUCH better, if you do it a lot, and have high prestige, etc.

    I am the best player in the game for PvP outside of the arena, and I am 922 ilevel, but the vast majority of the gear that I am wearing didn't come from PvP, even though I do so many BGs.

    Since rated PvP is such a cesspit of cheating, I feel that non rated PvP should give good gear as well, if you are high honor/prestige.
    "Haters gonna hate, whatcha gonna do?

    They're haters after all, it's what they do!" - The Legend, aka "The Best," aka "The Champ," aka "Speedymage," aka "MagusHenosis," aka "The Grim Reaper of Top Players"

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Caolela View Post
    Does anyone with more than a few brain cells really think a $4+ billion corp. like Acti is going to suddenly allow totally "incompetent" devs or lead devs to wreck the golden goose that they've made hundreds of millions on over a decade? That is illogical and from a business standpoint is plain stupid.

    Holunki was doing what he was told in the larger sense by his bosses (anything that keeps people subbed longer is good), it was his job to implement the specifics. The problem is, what he/they did to PvP they miscalculated would be so unpopular. They assumed everyone would just keep plowing through it.
    now turn it around: as long as I pay money I expect them to cater to my needs. so I expect them to fix wpvp to a playable state. a contract always goes 2 ways.

  16. #76
    The Lightbringer Caolela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliessa View Post
    now turn it around: as long as I pay money I expect them to cater to my needs. so I expect them to fix wpvp to a playable state. a contract always goes 2 ways.
    Agreed, but you can't get that through the thick skulls of the Blizzard fanboys and deniers. After all, templates were going to be The Great Solution™ to all things PvE and PvP, right? Then there's always some excuse invented.

    But as usual for Blizz it was another bait & switch. They did sell a lot of Legion copies with it though.
    Last edited by Caolela; 2017-07-25 at 08:24 PM.

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