Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Lahis]

"a theme no one is expecting"

So... like TBC, Cataclysm, MoP, WoD and Legion?

TBC was kinda expected though. Draenor/Outland has been in Warcraft games since WC2, so going there at some point was a given. MoP came out from nowhere, but it started to set up Legion.

[TheFirstOnes]

"a theme no one is expecting"

So... like TBC, Cataclysm, MoP, WoD and Legion?

I expected Legion. And no, it was not a "filler" Expansion.

That's like saying WC3 was filler. Stop.

[Soulwind]

*gasps*
TBC was half expected though, we just didn't originally expect Illidan as a raid boss.

I don't think spaceships, friendly eredar and, yes, Illidan as the main villain were expected.

Same could be said about Cataclysm and Legion. Sure Deathwing and Kil'jaeden were fairly obvious choices, but revamping the whole world and turning the Broken Isles into a continent were in nobody's list.

Next expansion may very well be about Azshara, N'zoth, Jaina and Sylvanas, but where and how we deal with them varies a lot from one theory to another.

I expected Legion. And no, it was not a "filler" Expansion.

That's like saying WC3 was filler. Stop.

You were expecting the Tomb of Sargeras to become a continent? You were expecting a resurrected Illidan, the Emerald Nightmare, Odyn and Suramar?

Because WoD leaving Gul'dan and Kil'jaeden alive hardly counts as expecting Legion.

It could have been a whole expansion on Argus, it could have been a Burning Legion version of Cataclysm, it could have been a space-travelling expansion, it could have been a lot of things that people expected, and it was none of them.

Also, Rotted said the word filler, I didn't. I don't even consider WoD a "filler expansion".

[zlygork]

I don't think spaceships, friendly eredar and, yes, Illidan as the main villain were expected.

Same could be said about Cataclysm and Legion. Sure Deathwing and Kil'jaeden were fairly obvious choices, but revamping the whole world and turning the Broken Isles into a continent were in nobody's list.

Next expansion may very well be about Azshara, N'zoth, Jaina and Sylvanas, but where and how we deal with them varies a lot from one theory to another.

All very fair points. Draenei, worgen and pandaren alone should certainly shut up any opposition to *anything* based on whether it currently makes sense or not.

[TheFirstOnes]

I don't think spaceships, friendly eredar and, yes, Illidan as the main villain were expected.

Same could be said about Cataclysm and Legion. Sure Deathwing and Kil'jaeden were fairly obvious choices, but revamping the whole world and turning the Broken Isles into a continent were in nobody's list.

Next expansion may very well be about Azshara, N'zoth, Jaina and Sylvanas, but where and how we deal with them varies a lot from one theory to another.

1. They're not spaceships, they're trans-dimensional ships.

2. If there's anything bad, then they can have a good side to them. For example, Draenei.

3. Illidan was NEVER the main Villain, Kil'jaeden was.

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Also, The Broken Isles were a good idea to start the Invasion, as the Tomb was always described have having enough power to create a Portal so large, that it'd rival the Well of Eternity in might.

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I don't think spaceships, friendly eredar and, yes, Illidan as the main villain were expected.

Same could be said about Cataclysm and Legion. Sure Deathwing and Kil'jaeden were fairly obvious choices, but revamping the whole world and turning the Broken Isles into a continent were in nobody's list.

Next expansion may very well be about Azshara, N'zoth, Jaina and Sylvanas, but where and how we deal with them varies a lot from one theory to another.



You were expecting the Tomb of Sargeras to become a continent? You were expecting a resurrected Illidan, the Emerald Nightmare, Odyn and Suramar?

Because WoD leaving Gul'dan and Kil'jaeden alive hardly counts as expecting Legion.

It could have been a whole expansion on Argus, it could have been a Burning Legion version of Cataclysm, it could have been a space-travelling expansion, it could have been a lot of things that people expected, and it was none of them.

Also, Rotted said the word filler, I didn't. I don't even consider WoD a "filler expansion".

I was expecting The Tomb of Sargeras to be a raid. It is a raid. Not a Continent.

I was expecting Illidan. I wasn't expecting Odyn, and/or EN, however. I always thought that the Emerald Nightmare would be for a Black Empire expansion. But, it's alright.

However, I was expecting a Legion to happen, cause Khadgar said "I fear this is only the beginning" during the 6.2 cinematic. Not to mention that, during Blizzcon of 2013, they said that WoD would lead into the next expac. And, since 6.2 had Fel, and Demons, and Archimonde and shit, I was expecting a LOT!

[Drekmar]

All very fair points. Draenei, worgen and pandaren alone should certainly shut up any opposition to *anything* based on whether it currently makes sense or not.

Yeah, the '100% confirmed this is/isn't happening' is the most annoying bunch here. All we got for now are indications, and even those are vague as fuck.

[Soulwind]

1. They're not spaceships, they're trans-dimensional ships.

2. If there's anything bad, then they can have a good side to them. For example, Draenei.

3. Illidan was NEVER the main Villain, Kil'jaeden was.

1. Semantics. If anything, dimensions are more of a sci-fi concept than space is. Point being, nobody expected to go from killing dragons to killing aliens.

2. Then I propose the next playable race to be Faceless. Right, that wouldn't make sense with the current lore. But it would be unexpected!

3. Yeah, sure, all those quests in Outland that get you ready to fight Illidan and his lieutenants are meaningless, the real meat of the expansion is the very last patch where an elf we already killed happens to be alive and summons the real villain in a random corner of Azeroth. There was little to no buildup to Sunwell before 2.4, Illidan was front and center.

[Lahis]

1. Semantics. If anything, dimensions are more of a sci-fi concept than space is. Point being, nobody expected to go from killing dragons to killing aliens.

But that is the basis of the whole franchise o_õ

[Arkura]

1. Semantics. If anything, dimensions are more of a sci-fi concept than space is. Point being, nobody expected to go from killing dragons to killing aliens.

2. Then I propose the next playable race to be Faceless. Right, that wouldn't make sense with the current lore. But it would be unexpected!

3. Yeah, sure, all those quests in Outland that get you ready to fight Illidan and his lieutenants are meaningless, the real meat of the expansion is the very last patch where an elf we already killed happens to be alive and summons the real villain in a random corner of Azeroth. There was little to no buildup to Sunwell before 2.4, Illidan was front and center.

Sunwell wasnt planned to be a part of the expansion, it was a raid that happened because wotlk was delayed alot.

[Soulwind]

But that is the basis of the whole franchise o_õ

Orcs with axes vs Tempest Keep. Not quite the same theme.

I was expecting The Tomb of Sargeras to be a raid. It is a raid. Not a Continent.

I was expecting Illidan. I wasn't expecting Odyn, and/or EN, however. I always thought that the Emerald Nightmare would be for a Black Empire expansion. But, it's alright.

However, I was expecting a Legion to happen, cause Khadgar said "I fear this is only the beginning" during the 6.2 cinematic. Not to mention that, during Blizzcon of 2013, they said that WoD would lead into the next expac. And, since 6.2 had Fel, and Demons, and Archimonde and shit, I was expecting a LOT!

The Broken Isles were nothing but the Tomb of Sargeras before Legion. Now there are two elf civilizations, a massive vrykul presence and a zone heavily connected to the Emerald Dream. All of this was new, all of this was unexpected.

If the Burning Legion had invaded Lordaeron and the Tomb was a patch zone with the raid, it would have fulfilled your expectations, yet it would be a completely different expansion from Legion.

Meaning no, you didn't expect Legion, you expected an expansion with the Burning Legion as the main enemy.

And I'll say again, even if Azshara/N'zoth/Sylvanas/Jaina are the main characters of the next expansion, that hardly defines what the expansion will be about. It can be a South Seas expansion, a Kul Tiras expansion, an Old God dimension expansion or even a fully underwater expansion, any and all can fulfill the few expectations that we have, but each would do so very, very differently.

[Ghargatuloth]

Orcs with axes vs Tempest Keep. Not quite the same theme.

The argument is largely invalid unless you are talking about Warcraft 1 and MAYBE 2...

By the time we got around to WC3 it was literally space demons and their pal the alien lifeform imprisoned in a helmet at the north pole.

Actually, no, yeah... Outland was a thing in WC2... There has always been inter-dimensional war.

...

Are you sure you meant to play this particular game?

[Bandit Mike]

Orcs with axes vs Tempest Keep. Not quite the same theme.

People seem to forget that the Orcs of Warcraft are from another planet, and they waged war with an extraterrestrial species before invading another planet.

[zlygork]

The argument is largely invalid unless you are talking about Warcraft 1 and MAYBE 2...

By the time we got around to WC3 it was literally space demons and their pal the alien lifeform imprisoned in a helmet at the north pole.

Actually, no, yeah... Outland was a thing in WC2... There has always been inter-dimensional war.

...

Are you sure you meant to play this particular game?

I believe the current argument is about expansion content being unexpected, not about unexpected being bad

[Soulwind]

The argument is largely invalid unless you are talking about Warcraft 1 and MAYBE 2...

By the time we got around to WC3 it was literally space demons and their pal the alien lifeform imprisoned in a helmet at the north pole.

Actually, no, yeah... Outland was a thing in WC2... There has always been inter-dimensional war.

...

Are you sure you meant to play this particular game?

Just look at the reaction from players, I'm sure there are some old threads from that age somewhere. People didn't see the themes of Outland coming at all. And even when WotLK was announced, many players said they were happy to go back to fantasy and "the roots of Warcraft".

I'm not saying that's my opinion, I'm just saying most expansions have been largely unexpected.

People seem to forget that the Orcs of Warcraft are from another planet, and they waged war with an extraterrestrial species before invading another planet.

No, that was my point. Medieval fantasy aliens with axes and sci-fi aliens with lasers are thematically very, very different, even if conceptually they're compatible.

[Lahis]

Orcs with axes vs Tempest Keep. Not quite the same theme.

Orcs are literal alien invaders. Sure, they didn't arrive with UFOs, but they used a Stargate instead.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The argument is largely invalid unless you are talking about Warcraft 1 and MAYBE 2...

By the time we got around to WC3 it was literally space demons and their pal the alien lifeform imprisoned in a helmet at the north pole.

Actually, no, yeah... Outland was a thing in WC2... There has always been inter-dimensional war.

...

Are you sure you meant to play this particular game?

While true, I think his point is there were elements of Sci-fi and well places like Legion the sci-fi just went 10 fold(Warframes....Vindicaar).

[Ghargatuloth]

Just look at the reaction from players, I'm sure there are some old threads from that age somewhere. People didn't see the themes of Outland coming at all. And even when WotLK was announced, many players said they were happy to go back to fantasy and "the roots of Warcraft".

I'm not saying that's my opinion, I'm just saying most expansions have been largely unexpected.

Alright, yeah... But the "roots of Warcraft" have always been rather unorthodox is all I'm trying to say. Not sure why those people tend to believe the "real" Warcraft is a classic fantasy about swords and sorcery. Plenty of other games and settings for that.

While true, I think his point is there were elements of Sci-fi and well places like Legion the sci-fi just went 10 fold(Warframes....Vindicaar).

Things got to that level of extreme around Burning Crusade era, it's just concentrated in Argus. Fortunately for those who dislike that sort of thing, we likely will not have a major Legion expansion again... Maybe.

[Soulwind]

Alright, yeah... But the "roots of Warcraft" have always been rather unorthodox is all I'm trying to say. Not sure why those people tend to believe the "real" Warcraft is a classic fantasy about swords and sorcery. Plenty of other games and settings for that.

Again, I agree, this is not about what's better or worse for the franchise, or how right or wrong the majority of the playerbase is.

It's just an example of how Blizzard subverts expectations while (losely) staying true to their lore.

I was originally answering to someone who said the next expansion would be "unexpected filler", and my point is that most expansions have been unexpected, and that hasn't defined the quality of their story or gameplay.

[Ghargatuloth]

Again, I agree, this is not about what's better or worse for the franchise, or how right or wrong the majority of the playerbase is.

It's just an example of how Blizzard subverts expectations while (losely) staying true to their lore.

I was originally answering to someone who said the next expansion would be "unexpected filler", and my point is that most expansions have been unexpected, and that hasn't defined the quality of their story or gameplay.

The funny thing about that is that one of the only expansions I consider "Filler" happens to be one of the more popular expansions. Everyone seemed to like Mists of Pandaria... Ya know, unless they just disliked the setting or "lolpandas".

[CheezeWasabi]

I'm so boring, no news at all and blizzcon still 3 weeks away.