1. #97201
    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    After doing some of these old raids post-squish, I really wonder what their QA testers are getting paid to do.

    RIP old Blizzard.
    We have these issues just because they're rushing the release date. With two or three more months of polishing we wouldn't have all these problems we have now.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  2. #97202
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Steampunkette View Post
    Ehhhhhh...

    The scales involved are so big that some minor damage to a town, a few dead prison guards, and a couple of diplomatic prisoners doesn't swing things in her favor. What does she get out of it? A foot in the door of Zandalar? The Alliance didn't need to rescue diplomats to get a foot in the door in Kul'tiras, and both have to completely save the kingdoms they're intending to court for Naval Aid before they get anywhere.

    Sylvanas starts out a step behind Anduin on getting to their newest allies and the rescue operation allows her to catch up with the Alliance in that respect.

    Now if you wanted to look at the loss of Territory/life between Teldrassil and Lordaeron, that might get somewhere. Though we don't know the relative strengths of either side other than the Alliance being the "Only Superpower on Azeroth" in the wake of Siege of Orgrimmar I think it's fair to say that the Alliance took heavier losses at Lordaeron than the Horde took at either Teldrassil -or- Lordaeron, based on what we're shown. Though both lost their territory without being able to claim the other's, so the real-estate issue is a bit of a draw.

    The real question is whether or not the Horde is a Superpower by the end of Legion (Doubtful) or whether or not the Alliance lost enough resources and manpower at Lordaeron to downgrade their military from Superpower (Possible, edging on plausible) in which case the war "Goes Well" for Sylvanas in the sense that her military's strength is becoming more comparable to a superior opponent. But it would still be too early to say who is winning the war, in that case, since they'd be roughly evenly matched.

    For the war itself we'll need to see how things go through BFA with lore decisions on battles. Like whether Stromgarde holds (Securing the Arathi Highlands for the Alliance) or falls (Securing the Arathi Highlands for the Horde).
    All valid points, but let's not forget that catching up still means that the war is going in her favour. And there's also a fact that any death on the battlefield is a net loss for Anduin, but Sylvanas can use every soldier twice. As she did in Lordaeron.

  3. #97203
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizson View Post
    How is it possible to make such a bad gameplay/story even in the beginning of BfA?

    >group of 5 people gets into SW city trough flying mounts
    >even though there are guards everywhere no one notice it
    >manage to sneak in to Stockade
    It's much easier to get in to a city with 5 people. You expected for them to send entire army? It's much easier for 3 people to get in and sneak around to get things done, the mission wasn't to burn the city or annihilate everyone, it was only to save few people.
    There was dense fog, and Horde came on eagles not a planes/ gyro copters or balloons. And you had in team Rokhan which is seasoned scout and shadow hunter, he is the main reason why for such a long time Horde remained undetected.

    >kill tons of guards and burn the city
    It's the moment they were spotted they had to fight, otherwise they wanted to avoid any fights. And it was Zul that set the city ablaze, not Horde. If anything it should show to Alliance how Zul is dangerous.

    >manage to get out of SW despite being attacked by 3 leaders of the Alliance and tons of guards
    They were not attacked by 3 alliance leaders.
    They were running away from Genn, stayed out of Anduin's sight and at the very end met Jaina. They were only in 5 they had to avoid any serious fighting because otherwise the'd be surrounded and then likely executed.

    What's the point of the war if we could kill alliancelets right there?
    RUN RUN EVERYONE RUN! GREYMANE IS COMING!! AHHH LOA SAVE US AN OLD MAN IS WALKING AT US MENACINGLY...!
    Well perhaps Genn left it to his worgen to do the job at chasing as he figured out it was a matter of time to capture 5 people. It wasn't an army after all. And this is why Horde group was so keen on escaping, once they'd be caught they'd be done.


    AAAAHHHH RUN MY NEW HORDE ALLIES, JAINA THE SUPERIOR SORCERER IS WALKING TOWARDS US MENACINGLY ALSO!
    Thalyssra said that we mustn't fight her, not that she was more powerful. The reason why they couldn't allow themselves to fight was that eventually they'd be stopped, surrounded and captured, then likely executed or left to rot in prison. Their objective was to free people and get out asap.

    LOK'TAR OGAR VICTORY OR RETREAT!! Oh don't killt us Jaina please, look, fire go! GO ! HELP THE CITY, We killed your guards and probably will wage war against you soon, but yeee GOO.
    - Lok'tar Ogar is orcish motto. There were no orcs in group
    - All the group was up for fight so I don't think she would instant kill them but they'd likely waste enough time for Horde to be eventually caught by Alliance army, and for Stormwind to burned into even bigger degree.

    But way to hyperbole.
    I miss Mists of Pandaria

  4. #97204
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    We have these issues just because they're rushing the release date. With two or three more months of polishing we wouldn't have all these problems we have now.
    history goes against what you're saying though. Last time they did a squish, at the end of MoP there were scaling issues then too, and that final tier lasted over 400 days. Putting this expansion off another 2-3 months isn't going to make all the scaling problems go away. Yes, there would probably be less, but is fixing old content really worth doing antorus for another few months?
    Khadgar: Prepare to heroically CTRL-E through the portal with me!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooky View Post
    yeah wow cool..how about raising the valor cap consider WoD isn't that far away? 1000 valor points gets u a lollipop and kick in the nutsack these days! Back in my day we could get a bucket of candy and a pet ferret with that sort of points!
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    QUICKLY FRIENDS, TO THE HYPERBOLEMOBILE!

  5. #97205
    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteCharger View Post
    Most of the problem with the Stormwind Scenario for the horde is the fact that there are no player characters there from the other side.
    Same problem with the alliance scenario at the Undercity. Its a scenario about horde or alliance attacking major cities where players get no agency.
    That is not really the issue I have with it. Mine is that they try to have this alliance fist-bump moment, as refered to in the past, in a horde scenario. The only thing it does is show that Jaina - and to a lot smaller extend Gen - are badass, followed by showing that Zuul's powers are legit and Telanji can hold her own. The horde established characters are just comedic relief.

  6. #97206
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    That is not really the issue I have with it. Mine is that they try to have this alliance fist-bump moment, as refered to in the past, in a horde scenario. The only thing it does is show that Jaina - and to a lot smaller extend Gen - are badass, followed by showing that Zuul's powers are legit and Telanji can hold her own. The horde established characters are just comedic relief.
    Oh yeah, I forgot about the "alliance fist bump" what a meme that was.
    Khadgar: Prepare to heroically CTRL-E through the portal with me!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooky View Post
    yeah wow cool..how about raising the valor cap consider WoD isn't that far away? 1000 valor points gets u a lollipop and kick in the nutsack these days! Back in my day we could get a bucket of candy and a pet ferret with that sort of points!
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    QUICKLY FRIENDS, TO THE HYPERBOLEMOBILE!

  7. #97207
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    That is not really the issue I have with it. Mine is that they try to have this alliance fist-bump moment, as refered to in the past, in a horde scenario. The only thing it does is show that Jaina - and to a lot smaller extend Gen - are badass, followed by showing that Zuul's powers are legit and Telanji can hold her own. The horde established characters are just comedic relief.
    To be fair, Rokhan was useful, he used the shadows to hide the group. Thalyssra was completely useless, and I reckon the added her only to make it appear as if the new AR leaders matter. Hell even Lasan Skyhorn did more than her in his 15 sec cameo.
    Crimea is Ukraine!

  8. #97208
    Quote Originally Posted by Drekmar View Post
    To be fair, Rokhan was useful, he used the shadows to hide the group. Thalyssra was completely useless, and I reckon the added her only to make it appear as if the new AR leaders matter. Hell even Lasan Skyhorn did more than her in his 15 sec cameo.
    Rokhan was great for utility, but we could have just taken another route over the graveyard as well, not to mention that it doesn't really make alot of sense how he can hide us .

    It was also established that I would love to hit the bars with him, I'm positive that he'd be an awsome wing-man, but in combat I'm not sure I want him to have my back, he didn't show much there. Same for most of Zandalar :/.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Let's not forget the entire worgen experience in Cata, best seen by playing a Forsaken in Silverpine and Arathi.
    I was okay with that, not seeing the fighting worked somewhat, your story was how you were turned and all that. Still, obviously a part was hidden away on the other side.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Is it possible that they broke the /usetalents # macro?

  9. #97209
    Quote Originally Posted by Doomchicken View Post
    history goes against what you're saying though. Last time they did a squish, at the end of MoP there were scaling issues then too, and that final tier lasted over 400 days. Putting this expansion off another 2-3 months isn't going to make all the scaling problems go away. Yes, there would probably be less, but is fixing old content really worth doing antorus for another few months?
    That's pretty much how it works. These issues are annoying, but not really dangerous to the game and don't justify delaying it further. People just don't get prioritising.

  10. #97210
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    That's pretty much how it works. These issues are annoying, but not really dangerous to the game and don't justify delaying it further. People just don't get prioritising.
    I would sacrifice old legacy content for a period of time for new working content any day any time.
    Crimea is Ukraine!

  11. #97211
    is it just me or is jainas nose kinda big here?

  12. #97212
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainhard View Post
    is it just me or is jainas nose kinda big here?
    Kul tiras' biggest nostrils.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  13. #97213
    Another artist another completely different interpretation of her visuals. I'm glad as long as they won't use the tracer from the 3 sisters comic.

  14. #97214
    Quote Originally Posted by rainhard View Post
    is it just me or is jainas nose kinda big here?
    first step in becoming the new wicked witch of the east.
    Khadgar: Prepare to heroically CTRL-E through the portal with me!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooky View Post
    yeah wow cool..how about raising the valor cap consider WoD isn't that far away? 1000 valor points gets u a lollipop and kick in the nutsack these days! Back in my day we could get a bucket of candy and a pet ferret with that sort of points!
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    QUICKLY FRIENDS, TO THE HYPERBOLEMOBILE!

  15. #97215
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Another artist another completely different interpretation of her visuals. I'm glad as long as they won't use the tracer from the 3 sisters comic.
    Headcanon: Constant exposure to Lei Shen's absorbed power is awakening the vrykul within.
    It became clear that it wasn’t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hardcore, as it had been in the past. -- Tom Chilton

  16. #97216
    Quote Originally Posted by rainhard View Post
    is it just me or is jainas nose kinda big here?
    Cleopatraina

  17. #97217
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Both sides do the Undercity scenario.
    Yes, but you aren't fighting any actual real players from the other side in the scenario.

    In my book you should have to do the Stormwind infiltration quest in the live zone not in a phased scenario.

    Same thing in the attack on the undercity. You should be attacking the undercity in the live zone not some instanced version.

    Defeats the point of this being a "war" which means against other live players not AI.

  18. #97218
    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteCharger View Post
    Yes, but you aren't fighting any actual real players from the other side in the scenario.

    In my book you should have to do the Stormwind infiltration quest in the live zone not in a phased scenario.

    Same thing in the attack on the undercity. You should be attacking the undercity in the live zone not some instanced version.

    Defeats the point of this being a "war" which means against other live players not AI.
    No, it doesn't. War is armed conflict between groups, in this case Horde and Alliance. Nowhere does it state both sides have to be live players.

    What you're looking for is PvP, not war. But Blizzard never claimed either scenario to be PvP.

  19. #97219
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    That is not really the issue I have with it. Mine is that they try to have this alliance fist-bump moment, as refered to in the past, in a horde scenario. The only thing it does is show that Jaina - and to a lot smaller extend Gen - are badass, followed by showing that Zuul's powers are legit and Telanji can hold her own. The horde established characters are just comedic relief.
    True. But to me that is just a side effect of Blizzard not wanting to make game play around these events to reflect the fact that it is a MMO game. The game should be forcing the PVP aspect of the name of the expansion. Players should not be able to avoid it. Going to the Undercity or Stormwind in an instanced scenario is just something they came up with for gameplay reasons since they couldn't figure out any other way to do it without people complaining. People are already complaining about other factions invading their capital cities with or without war mode. The best way to promote faction pride is to actively have horde vs alliance in live zones around Lordearon along with Darkshore and Teldrassil. The actual final plague assault should be the only phased aspect of the attack where the zone changes to the plagued version. Or, even better, make it an instanced battleground as opposed to simply PVE scenario.....

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    No, it doesn't. War is armed conflict between groups, in this case Horde and Alliance. Nowhere does it state both sides have to be live players.

    What you're looking for is PvP, not war. But Blizzard never claimed either scenario to be PvP.
    It is an MMO, which means you are playing with other players. "The Alliance" is not just NPCs, it is also other players and same for "the horde". Attacking a town or city always means attacking other players in an MMO. At least that was the original idea way back in the day. But of course nowadays people have watered that definition down to meaning whatever they want to mean. Even in the RTS you played against other players in sieges and campaigns. This is the whole point in theory because that is always going to be more of a challenge than pure PVE. How on earth can we say that we attacked Lordaeron and other players from the opposite faction are not impacted? It just destroys the immersion.
    Last edited by InfiniteCharger; 2018-07-22 at 04:07 PM.

  20. #97220
    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteCharger View Post
    True. But to me that is just a side effect of Blizzard not wanting to make game play around these events to reflect the fact that it is a MMO game. The game should be forcing the PVP aspect of the name of the expansion. Players should not be able to avoid it. Going to the Undercity or Stormwind in an instanced scenario is just something they came up with for gameplay reasons since they couldn't figure out any other way to do it without people complaining. People are already complaining about other factions invading their capital cities with or without war mode. The best way to promote faction pride is to actively have horde vs alliance in live zones around Lordearon along with Darkshore and Teldrassil. The actual final plague assault should be the only phased aspect of the attack where the zone changes to the plagued version. Or, even better, make it an instanced battleground as opposed to simply PVE scenario.....
    Nah, they did it because this is still an mmoRPG and telling a story in PvP is like the worst possible way they could have this going down. Even in your other response you completely ignore the other part that comes after mmo. If you want shallow battle royale then black desert is more for you tbh.

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