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  1. #61
    Herald of the Titans Eurytos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The Judgement mechanic is just inconsequential. When the devs design away a class feature instead of designing around it, it's a tacit admission of failure. Judge Unworthy is essentially an admission that the mechanic is pointless. As I've said elsewhere, Blizzard HAS changed a mastery during an expansion before (Icicles during MoP) they could really just scrap Judgment as a mechanic as well.
    To be clear, you mean the debuff and its interaction with finishers, not the spell itself, right?
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rytoz/advanced

    If there's one thing I'm not, it's in control.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurytos View Post
    To be clear, you mean the debuff and its interaction with finishers, not the spell itself, right?
    I wouldn't be the same if I couldn't judge people and make critics.
    I don't think he meant the spell itself

  3. #63
    Herald of the Titans Gracin's Avatar
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    Okay, assume they take away the CS funtion of judging. Then what do they do with judgement? now you have a random ranged spell with no synergy with ANYTHING we're doing. I'm not saying CS is good for our spec, but maybe figure out a decent solution before gutting what little we have.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Gracin View Post
    Okay, assume they take away the CS funtion of judging. Then what do they do with judgement? now you have a random ranged spell with no synergy with ANYTHING we're doing. I'm not saying CS is good for our spec, but maybe figure out a decent solution before gutting what little we have.
    One word: seals.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Gracin View Post
    Okay, assume they take away the CS funtion of judging. Then what do they do with judgement? now you have a random ranged spell with no synergy with ANYTHING we're doing. I'm not saying CS is good for our spec, but maybe figure out a decent solution before gutting what little we have.
    Judgment
    Judges the target dealing (250% of Spell power) Holy damage and and causing them to take X% increased damage taken from your next Holy Power spender.

    Simple enough. Increase the damage by a decent enough margin to make up for the damage loss. On demand burst with two GCDs, a boon for PvP and PvE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    One word: seals.
    Seals are nice. I mean we still have Boros or Maraad (whichever he was) from the TBC cinematic casting a Seal, it's THAT iconic. Same to have lost them.

    A constant theme among multiple talent trees is that you have one spec for ST and one for cleave/AoE and you just switch between the two of them (or get punished for forgeting/not having a tome) instead of choosing a playstyle. Seals could be used to provide such a switch for us if they work like stances. Or alternatively they could have been made the main mechanic of the spec and be converted to cooldowns.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Seals are nice. I mean we still have Boros or Maraad (whichever he was) from the TBC cinematic casting a Seal, it's THAT iconic. Same to have lost them.
    Thete made a good point in one if his videos that the only class to charge in a cinematic was Tyrion, a paladin, but it's somehow a warrior ability? I think the art team likes paladins a lot more than the class design team does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    A constant theme among multiple talent trees is that you have one spec for ST and one for cleave/AoE and you just switch between the two of them (or get punished for forgeting/not having a tome) instead of choosing a playstyle. Seals could be used to provide such a switch for us if they work like stances. Or alternatively they could have been made the main mechanic of the spec and be converted to cooldowns.
    What made Ret what it was, was its versatility in combat. It wasn't necessarily the king of anything except maybe bursting down priority targets. Its versatility made up for it not being "the best" at most things. Ret has lost a lot of its versatility, and as a result, its identity.

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    Oh Frost Mages need more attention, guys. They're not doing well enough, right? ARE YOU KIDDING ME

  7. #67
    Bloodsail Admiral Dugna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Thete made a good point in one if his videos that the only class to charge in a cinematic was Tyrion, a paladin, but it's somehow a warrior ability? I think the art team likes paladins a lot more than the class design team does.


    What made Ret what it was, was its versatility in combat. It wasn't necessarily the king of anything except maybe bursting down priority targets. Its versatility made up for it not being "the best" at most things. Ret has lost a lot of its versatility, and as a result, its identity.

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    Oh Frost Mages need more attention, guys. They're not doing well enough, right? ARE YOU KIDDING ME
    Mages and rogues will always till the end of this game being favorites for devs, if there is something ever actually wrong with them it will be fixed or adjusted but never to a huge nerf.

  8. #68
    High Overlord Ivank0v's Avatar
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    Something something until Ashbringer is gone, Paladin complaints invalid.

    I hope the epicness returns to Ret.

  9. #69
    they are professional at what they are professionals aswell.

  10. #70
    We won't get the rework we need until next expansion most probably. Must click Pocket City APK download
    Last edited by skr1107; 2018-08-30 at 05:01 PM.

  11. #71
    Odds are that if we don't get a rework on a rehaul of the ret system, we won't see anything new until 8.0

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Colmadero View Post
    Odds are that if we don't get a rework on a rehaul of the ret system, we won't see anything new until 8.0
    I mean it could happen in 7.3.5 as well.

  13. #73
    Deleted
    The inherent problems of the spec design remain there since launch , only real change done was the horse baseline. So the frustration is real.
    On top of that their late moves : buff cs and zeal, buff boj, t20 and ring created even more problems : they may have addressed some damage problems (dont take me wrong the effects were really minor) but created even more : u are forced to squize even more spells inside the debuff window resulting in a total mess, generators on cd and waiting , spells cast outside debuff window (either finishers or boj), resources overcapping frequently. Taking a look at top parsing rets last week one can see that although the gap between the other classes is better (the current situation is outside the scopus of the post) and dps wise rets are middle of the pack or middle bottom, the game-play rotation wise is a total shitpile.
    So to be honest with changes like this i hope they leave us in peace , do some hotfixing tuning ,let us crippled for the remaining of the expansion and they better get some team working on rets for the next expansion starting now.
    And i do hope they get some proper game testing team sooner than later.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I mean it could happen in 7.3.5 as well.
    Why do a rework of a class late into the expansion such as 7.3.5? By then the 8.0 launch would be probably 4-6 months out.

    Would seem like a lot of dev time down the drain, unless they keep the same rework for 8.0 but doing so would be unfair for ret since vritaully everybody else would get a rework.

  15. #75
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    On the contrary: I want it to be HARDER. I want to have a higher skill ceiling!
    I completely agree with you. Personally I believe they should bring something like empowered seals and implement it as following: You have the standard crusade build, easy to use/decent dps and add emp. seals (instead of holy wrath) as a more difficult (i.e. playing it wrongly would result in a worse dps than crusade) alternative that would result in higher dps if played correctly.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Colmadero View Post
    Why do a rework of a class late into the expansion such as 7.3.5? By then the 8.0 launch would be probably 4-6 months out.

    Would seem like a lot of dev time down the drain, unless they keep the same rework for 8.0 but doing so would be unfair for ret since vritaully everybody else would get a rework.
    I'll bring again the example of frost mage in 5.4; the mastery and several talents were redesigned for the last raid tier only. 7.3.5 is the balancing patch for the Argus raid tier, not 7.3

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Colmadero View Post
    Why do a rework of a class late into the expansion such as 7.3.5? By then the 8.0 launch would be probably 4-6 months out.

    Would seem like a lot of dev time down the drain, unless they keep the same rework for 8.0 but doing so would be unfair for ret since vritaully everybody else would get a rework.
    7.3.5 would likely coincide with Argus raid, so likely around decemberish. 8.0 not likely til this time next year (if the next xpac drops in septemberish) so more like 7-9 months.

  18. #78
    Deleted
    Just give us back the execute hammer already

  19. #79
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Feral rework seems to be because the mandatory talents made the spec too complex for their taste.

    Ret's mandatory talents don't complex anything really. So probably not.
    The problem with feral which largely caused the rework was that there was almost zero build deviation in the entire tree. The only thing you'd ever change was to take brutal slash very occasionally, that was it. The point of the rework was to stop jagged wounds and bloodtalons defining the entire spec since the spec should define itself, not 2 talents.
    Other problems included having 2 mandatory talents in the same tier. I realise that sounds odd but as the Soul of the Archdruid legendary gives one of the mandatory talents, it becomes pretty clear.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by mintilol View Post
    The problem with feral which largely caused the rework was that there was almost zero build deviation in the entire tree. The only thing you'd ever change was to take brutal slash very occasionally, that was it. The point of the rework was to stop jagged wounds and bloodtalons defining the entire spec since the spec should define itself, not 2 talents.
    Other problems included having 2 mandatory talents in the same tier. I realise that sounds odd but as the Soul of the Archdruid legendary gives one of the mandatory talents, it becomes pretty clear.
    At the same time though, feral actually has interesting talents so it was a shame not being able to pick them because of bad tier competition and poor tuning. Meanwhile ret has absolute crap talents. Plus the fact that the build is not locked in place doesn't really mean much because the two talent rows at which people do make changes don't affect the way the spec is played at all and is entirely a way to improve ST vs Cleave and AoE.

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