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  1. #1

    Lessons of space-time no longer worth using t20

    If you have 4/4 diabolic its worth using 2/4 t19 and drop lessons out. Maybe titanforged hc gear eventually pull ahead of ur t19 pieces but not much then again you miss the cast time reduction for sure. Prydaz is very viable now when mastery is equally good with haste and crit. I use it with feretory.

    And now sc pull ahead of channel demonfire. It sims higher and has no room for error like cdf.

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire Walrock's Avatar
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    Proof?
    /10char

  3. #3
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...-hand/kridlock

    His 3 percentile mythic Goroth proof enough? So much better than with Lessons he used on hc/normal.
    "Ahhh ahhhhh, ahhh, yeah, ahhhh, YEAH, YEAH, RIGHT THERE, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhhhhhh" Jenna Jameson

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Walrock View Post
    Proof?
    /10char
    This depends on gear you have, but it's not outside the realm of possibility. For example it holds almost true for me, Prydaz+Feretory+SC+2pc19+4pc20 sims almost as well as my best gear combination with T20 and Lessons and if I replace Prydaz with Spite, then it's better, although like 0.5% margin over Prydaz combo.

    Naturally there is a great benefit with going with Prydaz in progress when you barely lose any damage.

    And yes Soul Conduit with such setup tier mix setup overtakes CDF, it also provides absolutely beastly cleave windows with 2pcT19 and SC allowing you to chain a ton of CBs and shit in Havoc window.

    But again, a lot depends on gear you have, right now my gear is pretty shitty mix with pieces I don't want, while I have 2 ilvl 920 T19 pieces I can't use now, I wonder what will happen once we gear up and whether 2pcT19 with SC will still be worth it as a way to dodge Lessons.

    Also, one more thing - it's a good way to use something like Sephuz too, which is pretty good, even as is. In short, there is potential in what OP says, it's just not a thing yet, as people seem to be conservative still and did not pick up on deviation possibilities with tier mixes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by VladimirM View Post
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...-hand/kridlock

    His 3 percentile mythic Goroth proof enough? So much better than with Lessons he used on hc/normal.
    Good thing I have 92% on Goroth Mythic and I used exactly that setup with Prydaz, yo? And that is as ilvl 918 btw. The fact that he fucked up on that encounter does not mean that whatever he says has no merit to it. It is at least worth giving a thought.

    - - - Updated - - -

    P.S. That said I would not say "Lessons not worth", rather the better wording would be that under certain conditions and gear setups, Lessons are not the holy grail legendary you have to use and other pretty surprising choices rise in value. Sephuz is very obvious, for example, but Prydaz seems to be seriously underrated.

    If you can make it so that a mix with Prydaz will result in like less than 0.5% loss over your best setup with Lessons, then fuck me, that's super worth it for progress and it is possible to achieve that under certain conditions. That's even not talking about encounters where suddenly other legos overtake, for example Lessons is not that good for Mistress, you have at least 3 better options there.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2017-07-08 at 12:27 AM.

  5. #5
    P.S. That said I would not say "Lessons not worth", rather the better wording would be that under certain conditions and gear setups, Lessons are not the holy grail legendary you have to use and other pretty surprising choices rise in value. Sephuz is very obvious, for example, but Prydaz seems to be seriously underrated.
    that's a proper post and not claiming something that might be result of computer saying what could be best like OP said
    "Ahhh ahhhhh, ahhh, yeah, ahhhh, YEAH, YEAH, RIGHT THERE, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhhhhhh" Jenna Jameson

  6. #6
    I use simc and test on raid dummy alot..So we had 1 night with mythic Goroth and i died on the pull we downed him so my argument is not valid? You dont make any sense..

    I have 6/6 diabolic and i found 1 setup lessons beat prydaz and t19 but only by like 0.9%, 1m16k vs 1m6k. Not worth sacrificing prydaz at this point for so little gain. SC becomes better when you have 2/4 t19. With only 4/4 diabolic channel demonfire is still better. but sc sometimes provide super strong streaks, its crazy. 1 annoying thing goes away without t19 2/4, when u cast 2 bolts in row second one dont get eradication buff becouse it get off so fast. With t19 u always need to use filler between bolt, if the target doesnt allready have eradication buff with enough time.

    Some people like me care about the numbers and like allkind of tweaking and improving even small ammounts at time. If you dont have any ideas or anything usefull to add, digging up my loggs and flaming my opinions dont have any value becouse i died on mythic goroth it will only make you look stupid and complety irrational.

  7. #7
    The Insane Taftvalue's Avatar
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    Better get those 950 titanforged set items from Night Hold.

    Good luck.
    We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.
    Man is not free unless government is limited.

  8. #8
    Just say to say I use t20 4pc + t19 2pc and love it. I'm a two night a week cutting edge raider and love the feretory soul conduit eradication chain bolt build. The set stacking also feels terrific on havoc chain bolting.

    Prydaz also feels terrific on fights like H KJ and M Goroth in my experience.

    I'm lucky enough to have a 920 t19 cape and 910 chest or legs. I think I'm going to run this 4 set for awhile.

    I also just don't like CDF.

    Logs: powerpig-lightbringer, I can't post links yet.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    But again, a lot depends on gear you have, right now my gear is pretty shitty mix with pieces I don't want, while I have 2 ilvl 920 T19 pieces I can't use now, I wonder what will happen once we gear up and whether 2pcT19 with SC will still be worth it as a way to dodge Lessons.
    What would you guess the rough ilvl of the t19/t20 needs pieces to be for it to even out to the level that prydaz is similar to lessons? Only have the t20 2p on 900 at the moment so can't really sim/test it myself yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    I think there'll be a shitstorm.

    period.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Taftvalue View Post
    Better get those 950 titanforged set items from Night Hold.

    Good luck.
    As if you need it, you can just combine low budget high ilvl T19 pieces and it works fine. I have 920 T19 hands and back stashed just for that, the bonus will compensate for a small ilvl deficiency compared to Mythic T20 pieces there.

  11. #11
    For 2/4 T19,4/4 T20, prydas, SC(1m6k dps) VS T20 4/4, Lessons and best gear(1m16k dps) test i used only 890ilvl T19 pieces. I have 905 chest and 910 cloak but it was best result to use gloves and pants. Equip is 915 vs 917. I think its safe to say going for 2pc T19 especially with good ilvl is very valid option for entire tos. It provide very good dps and do it with prydaz which makes it very good option. Also the chaosbolt streaks are like a drug. Spamming for near 3m crits nonstop..Better yet with cleave. Ofc not happening all the time but still.

    I think this matter will somewhat divide the playerbase and which style you want to play. Its good to have options.

  12. #12
    Looking at your grey and green parse logs you seem to know what you're talking about thanks for the insight.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    Looking at your grey and green parse logs you seem to know what you're talking about thanks for the insight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post


    Good thing I have 92% on Goroth Mythic and I used exactly that setup with Prydaz, yo? And that is as ilvl 918 btw.
    Try reading more than one post next time.

  14. #14
    Very interesting, I have a 920 chest and 905 cloak with socket... i might give this a go, just need to pick up the T20 shoulders next reset

  15. #15
    Do you go with Prydaz due to the overall budget of stats compared to using the Spite? I have both and tried Feretory with Spite mixed with the 2 T19 and 4 T20 and it felt fine. I thought about trying out Prydaz but just haven't had the time due to working a lot.

  16. #16
    Prydaz is about double the stat upgrade of Sindorei for me so I would assume sindorei slightly edges it in most circumstances.

    That being said I prefer the consistently of prydaz and enjoy the shield for progression / relevant bosses for my guild group.

    Prydaz is enormously helpful with H KH M goroth and M Harj, all bosses most "'mythic guilds" deal with on a regular basis.

  17. #17
    Sup...

    Rank 1 Destro at Goroth with ilvl 922 using 2pc19+4pc20,Prydaz,Soul Conduit. As ilvl 922 too, 10 guys below me are all ilvl 928-934.

    So yeah, it works ok, at the very least it is a decent alternative to usual Lessons trope.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Sup...

    Rank 1 Destro at Goroth with ilvl 922 using 2pc19+4pc20,Prydaz,Soul Conduit. As ilvl 922 too, 10 guys below me are all ilvl 928-934.

    So yeah, it works ok, at the very least it is a decent alternative to usual Lessons trope.
    How were you weaving CBs? CB > spell > CB? or CB > spell > spell >CB?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Evatar View Post
    How were you weaving CBs? CB > spell > CB? or CB > spell > spell >CB?
    It depends on how much you are getting refunded, if you started with 4 shards and got 1 refunded, then 2 spells in between (unless havoc or SH up, then you want to be more spammy banking on future recovers while it lasts), if you started with 4 and got 2 refunded, then only 1 spell. If you somehow overcapped (feretory proc and refunds, can happen), then chain CBs to like 2.x shards.

  20. #20
    Bloodsail Admiral Uzkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Sup...

    Rank 1 Destro at Goroth with ilvl 922 using 2pc19+4pc20,Prydaz,Soul Conduit. As ilvl 922 too, 10 guys below me are all ilvl 928-934.

    So yeah, it works ok, at the very least it is a decent alternative to usual Lessons trope.
    Nah m8. The OP has a 3% grey parse where he died early so clearly he must be wrong. And since he's wrong you're wrong too.

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