Mage in Legion pretty... boring?

[Doffen]

Been in love with arcane gameplay since I started the mage in late wotlk(except the mess it was in Legion before 7.1.5)Maybe thats why I love Havoc DH gameplay as well. Mashing few buttons with good CD usage is awesome fun gameplay, for me.

Frost in WoD was also fun. Was fire mage main in start of legion, but its for me dull and boring, especially since they nerfed the burst alot few months in. Arcane was just messy and boring at that time so I rerolled hunter.

They pretty much nailed the arcane how it is now, and I love it!

[Soulwell]

Who cares of ToS HC. Actually that is true - Frost is the easiest spec and it performs well only for pure ST fights, if you have good procs of course



I just listed areas where Arcane and Fire (yeah i was talking about both specs), ale better than Frost. And frost is only better on 2... yes 2 fights in ToS M. You are already spending your morning by arguing with me instead of giving some arguments. You don't have anything better to do anyway so... please at least give me something to show that Frost is better than Arcane and Fire.

You're pulling statistics in the middle of a tier where all of the pad pad bosses are at the start (inq, harj, deso, mistress). There's around 400 or so guilds that have killed mythic mistress so saying you only take mythic into consideration when you look at logs is downright stupid. Hc is the best way to judge logs until people progress further, you aren't comparing the one person with rank 1 that got completely retarded procs you're comparing the spec as a whole. But since you're clearly retarded you probably won't understand that, whatever lackluster progression you have with the people that are bad enough to let you believe arcane is "one of the best specs in the game" and that "frost is the weakest spec out of the 3" need to revaluate their raid group.

[The Archmage]

I invite people to discuss the matter at hand with calm. There has been enough "retarded" accusations in one thread for my tastes. Moreover, this topic is about which is one's favourite spec and why: let's try to avoid turning it into another "my spec is better then yours" thread.

I feel like we all have read enough of those.

[Deleted]

You're pulling statistics in the middle of a tier where all of the pad pad bosses are at the start (inq, harj, deso, mistress). There's around 400 or so guilds that have killed mythic mistress so saying you only take mythic into consideration when you look at logs is downright stupid. Hc is the best way to judge logs until people progress further, you aren't comparing the one person with rank 1 that got completely retarded procs you're comparing the spec as a whole. But since you're clearly retarded you probably won't understand that, whatever lackluster progression you have with the people that are bad enough to let you believe arcane is "one of the best specs in the game" and that "frost is the weakest spec out of the 3" need to revaluate their raid group.

That is a nice point of view. Nice to hear that for someone fights that are like 2min long, are good to value the worth of the class, because you know, during those 2 minutes all that maters is performance and not procs ye? But what to expect, if one class is not so good on Mythic anymore, people will search for areas where his class looks like a good one. So, I understand why you are trying to make the HC looks like valuable place to judge classes. However, I can explain to you why Mythic log matters. Mythic is here long enough so people have like 7 kills on each boss. That is enough to learn the fights, and know how to pull enough dps on it. Avatar and KJ may not have many logs, but that only works for Frost advantage. We all know how much higher Fire is on Avatar than Frost. And how much Arcane beats Frost on KJ And btw. what matters the most, early stages of progression, where you are learning and killing the bosses or the farm? I think you know the answer to that question, boy.

To sum up, please stop using the argument that Arcane is one of worst specs, as it is misleading and totally not true. It is the most rewarding spec of all 3, and it may be very fun to play, if you focus on min-max aspects of the spec. So, if someone likes how Arcane works, he shouldn't feel be forced to play Frost which play like early legion DH, where you had 2 buttons to press. Frost being top spec is the past, and you have to learn how to live with it.

End of topic for me.

[vaccine]

Enjoyed Arcane a lot before I swithed to Frost. Frost was fun before the double IL/TV nerfs that have made it very boring now, considering switching back to Arcane. Not had much experience since early EN so before the changes but seems okay.

[Zenfoldor]

Frost plays like a casino game. Wait for the numbers to light up and go weee.

Fire is still fun, but I vastly prefer gameplay when you can create it, without the bracers. The bracers make it feel like a complex version of frost.

Haven't played as much arcane in a raid environment, but I do keep the spec up, ie concordance, relics, talent, gearset, and it feels a lot more satisfying than frost to me, but to each their own.

I've moved over to about 50% frost for my playtime now, and I'm the lesser for it. It was necessitated by Blizzard, so that I could pull the 1.2 millions on Maiden, sisters, and Goroth. Outside of those 3 bosses though, frost is not as good in the rest of the game as the public perception suggests.

3 issues:

1. It's boring
2. AoE is questionable and must be premeditated if larger than a 3 pack
3. Relative QoL sucks in non-relevant content, ie dat open world where you are spamming non-buffed ice lance because you don't want to make a pet, and also you have been waiting forever on your best spell, frozen orb, to come off cooldown so you can do a big ice lance, hoping to target at least 2 mobs, so your dps can quicken you once more

It's fun to do 4m burst and dps down world bosses each week to the dismay of all others in the raid group, but at the same time, it sucks to solo easy shit with 5-10 second breaks in them. With fire and arcane burst aoe, world mobs die from looking at you and you never pop a cooldown.

[Soulwell]

It's fun to do 4m burst and dps down world bosses each week to the dismay of all others in the raid group, but at the same time, it sucks to solo easy shit with 5-10 second breaks in them. With fire and arcane burst aoe, world mobs die from looking at you and you never pop a cooldown.

The only way you're doing 4m burst as frost is if you get 20 il procs off of one orb, which isn't going to happen.

[Zenfoldor]

The only way you're doing 4m burst as frost is if you get 20 il procs off of one orb, which isn't going to happen.

Number wasn't real observation, being facetious, that said, burst in outdoors with frost is pretty high when combined with BL, shark, owl. I always run the 20% mage Isles buff as well(so I really only need to get 3m to get close), from the combat follower, and of course I don't play a second of this game unless I'm potting, flasked, food, and lfr thing.

Also keep in mind that at least a couple of world bosses are not single target, and you can get bigger burst on them as frost. Particularly the one on the island that has 3 adds, where you can cleave right off the bat.

In fact, I'd almost take the pepsi challenge with that bet. World boss is out this week, may be able to post a screen. I also suspect I can do it with fire/bracers and the 20% buff, just need to get lucky. Always run rune of power for high burst.

They key to getting a big burst is to try to line everything up well. Especially as fire, if you are running the trink off krosus, you can make rop/pot/20% meteor, db and that trink hit on your very first second of dps. So here's what I like to do in aoe for really high burst in the world(the unsuspecting). You toss up the trink, lust, meteor, have all your buffs, 20% from combat ally, have the dragon helm. Here's what you want. You want to have lust and potion going and be standing in RoP, but not get into combat until the second your trink/meteor hit. At that exact second, also hit dragons breath(so now you have rop, lust, pot, 20% world buff, krosus trinket, helm/talent buffed dragon breath, meteor all hitting on second 1). Now in that first second, you have dropped down several million damage, so you are starting from a high point. Now you pop two fireblast, don't care if they crit or if its efficient, just pop them both and pyro, now use all 3 of your phoenix flames, and immediately drop combat as soon as rop is gone, screenshot dps at highest point.

I get bored.

In a raid on a raid boss, I'm sure I burst up to exactly what everyone else does at 925 with optimal gear. I'm no snowflake.

[SherriMayim]

Honestly I love fire, always have. Ever since the Hot Streak proc was introduced in Wrath of the Lich King it has been so much fun.

Granted this is in comparison to having to Scorch -> Fireball in Vanilla, and Scorch -> Fireball MOAR in BC.

As for this expansion? One of the best I've ever played in Fire-Wise.

Combustion is GREAT. I love the gameplay with it, I love getting a super pyroblast proc and slowly winding down that 3.7sec cast to combust right before it launches off for a 33% ignite tick off of a 5.4mil pyroblast crit.

I love the Phoenix aspect, I like how they 'fixed' fire by including pyrotechnics, and then Fire Blast being an instant cast while casting enabling hotstreaks easier and less 'guess work' when playing the spec.

The only problem is the damage feels.. terrible.

The class doesn't work without proper Legendaries.

And unfortunately one of the cooler ones, Scorch Belt, doesn't work with Kindling so that's a touch of feelbad.

Molten Shoulders was going to be so cool, until they nerfed it into the ground by requiring 30 FB/PBs instead of 10, which would have made for an interesting choice on fights where you'd have to decide if you needed more mobility with Scorch, like Fallen Avatar, or if you could work with it in a more stationary fight, Maiden.

But Frost can get away with more vanilla legendaries like the Time Warp Ring.

My suggestion would be start frost, because Fire Gameplay, not just the damage but the gaemplay aspect, how it 'feels' is straight up garbage without the Bracers and Belt.

[Deleted]

I mostly played fire in this xpac and i should say this is the best iteration ever especially with the legendaries.

[Zenfoldor]

I mostly played fire in this xpac and i should say this is the best iteration ever especially with the legendaries.

The belt is majorly fun. I won't mind losing the bracers. I'm sure they will mix it up again next xpak, but overall fire is in a fun place. It was even better at the beginning of the xpak when you built exclusively around the combustion phase. It was truly a machine gun spec then, but it's still great. I think originally it had too big of a margin between great and average players, since you had to save PF, fire blasts, ect for combustion and patience is not a strong suit of the average player. Thus the "fire mage is OP" calls at the beginning of the xpak.

Like aff locks a few xpaks ago when you had dot snapshotting. Average player's aff lock sucked major ass. Great players did god numbers, and they could never nerf it enough because snapshotting was so insidiously powerful to the players who understood it. Last boss in thunder isle dropped a trink that gave 100% crit for 3 seconds, and iirc demo locks were snapshotting off that, to get a huge herd of 100% crit imps. I never played demo, but it was all the rage t the time.

[Syfus]

Rofl so now mage is boring in all xpac? Wtf... i saw many players playing happy in the begin... so seems another drama stuffs... bla bla

[Sylvaeres]

You're pulling statistics in the middle of a tier where all of the pad pad bosses are at the start (inq, harj, deso, mistress). There's around 400 or so guilds that have killed mythic mistress so saying you only take mythic into consideration when you look at logs is downright stupid. Hc is the best way to judge logs until people progress further, you aren't comparing the one person with rank 1 that got completely retarded procs you're comparing the spec as a whole. But since you're clearly retarded you probably won't understand that, whatever lackluster progression you have with the people that are bad enough to let you believe arcane is "one of the best specs in the game" and that "frost is the weakest spec out of the 3" need to revaluate their raid group.

Dude, you just said logs are better based off heroic, and frost is better than the other specs. Are you fucking high, or just plain stupid?

[Deleted]

The only way you're doing 4m burst as frost is if you get 20 il procs off of one orb, which isn't going to happen.

Depends on your meter, with Skada it's impossible, but with Recount and Details it's easy to exceed 5mil during the first 2-5 seconds of a pull.

[gaymer77]

Just curious, why do you say that Norgannon's Foresight is the worst legendary for a fire mage out there?

[Deleted]

Just curious, why do you say that Norgannon's Foresight is the worst legendary for a fire mage out there?

fire already has strong mobility. you don't need extra mobility. The value of the passive effect is close to 0.

[Manabomb]

I'm a big fan of Legion's take on fire save for a couple small QoL changes I'd like them to make. (Pheonix flames giving hot streak when the button is pressed, not when the spell reaches the target for starters.)

I felt that arcane was the most bland of the 3, but frost wasn't too far behind. Frost just felt like it had very little control, which is crazy when you consider, you know. Fire mage.
Arcane is... The same way it's been since Cataclysm.... Honestly find it difficult -anyone- can enjoy that "playstyle".

[Deleted]

maybe with spell animation upgrade on 7.3, arcane will become a bit more funny.

[klaps_05]

Love Frost, sure you can get a 10-20s window in a raid with nothing proccing off Frostbolt, but since Mythic ToS happened, i have had that happen only twice. In Mythic+ is loads of fun, especially if you run helm, constantly pumping out orb, lances, comet storms, blizzard, the big dickcicle from ebonbolt, I find it all quite enjoyable and cant wait for the new animations to hit live!

As Frost, while execution is fairly straight-forward, this allows you to optimize other aspects of the fights.

[gaymer77]

fire already has strong mobility. you don't need extra mobility. The value of the passive effect is close to 0.

Wouldn't giving it yet more mobility be a good thing? It has crit on it now so at least you get your preferred stat now. It's not as useless as Belo'vir's Final Stand or Prydaz, Xavaric's Magnum Opus since they give absolutely no dps gain.

I'm a big fan of Legion's take on fire save for a couple small QoL changes I'd like them to make. (Pheonix flames giving hot streak when the button is pressed, not when the spell reaches the target for starters.)

I felt that arcane was the most bland of the 3, but frost wasn't too far behind. Frost just felt like it had very little control, which is crazy when you consider, you know. Fire mage.
Arcane is... The same way it's been since Cataclysm.... Honestly find it difficult -anyone- can enjoy that "playstyle".

I happen to enjoy the simplistic playstyle of Arcane. Its always been my favorite spec.