Blood and H Desolate Host

[Taalyn]

Can anyone help me out and figure out why our Blood DK is taking so much damage from Boneshards? Our healers were having issues keeping the DK up and based on other logs she was taking way more damage from Boneshards. Also would it be better to have the Prot Pally upstairs and the DK downstairs?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...2xFr8#fight=14

[xpire]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...false%24219788


This plus the fact he had 45 death strikes in 7 minutes(I had 88 on mythic while AFKing the first 4 minutes of the fight) I don't think more needs to be said really other than that he has no clue how to blood DK. There are plenty of helpful guides and DK discord he can consult for more knowledge.

[Lodion]

Tell them to press Marrowrend and Death Strike more, Blood Boil instead of Death's Caress

[Philondra]

Your DK is missing out on the very fundamentals of playing the spec. There are so many things wrong with what he's doing, but I'll point out the fundamental errors.

* Bone Shield Uptime of 34.88%. This is a core component of DK survivabilty, providing 16% damage reduction passively and 10% haste + 10% of your haste rating. Your tank needs to make sure Bone Shield is up at all times by using Marrowrend frequently.
* He cast Death's Caress, our ranged ability, *113* times. That ability is only used to pull mobs--and honestly, these days he's better off just pulling with taunt or Death Grip and saving the rune for Heart Strike. Tell him to remove this ability from his bars and never look back. This error is just mind-boggling to me. That's probably more than I cast Death's Caress the entire expansion.

Until he fixes these two Blood Death Knight 101 errors, there's no point in looking at his logs any further. Get him to fix those two things, and report back if you have trouble again.

To be frank, I'm gobsmacked as to how your guild even got this far with him tanking. You must have beastly healers.

[Bloodyleech]

1. Boneshield uptime should be above 98%, if not 99% at 5++ Stacks, preferable always 8-10 (Ossuary needs 5+ Stacks, Foul Bulwark = more life for each Boneshield stack)
2. Never ever use this weak Death's Caress, it's worthless and shouldn't be used ever - Blood Boil is for the Blood Plague, and if there are Adds outside the AoE Range, use Taunt or Grip them, less Death's Caress more Hearthstrike means more Runic Power = more Death Strikes
3. More Death and Decay because of Rapid Decomposition (= more Runic Power)

Something little to add: She can use a Potion of Prolonged Power pre-pull, too!
If I see this right, she has one crit enchant on one of her rings, switch it to 200 haste in addition to the other ring, which has only 150 haste.

[Ashaeron]

As others have mentioned, these logs on heroic are deeply concerning.

Marrowrend for Bone Shield. Seriously. Under 95% Uptime is a critical failure. Instant loss of 16% DR, loss of a bunch of talents (loss of Ossuary and Foul Bulwark is huge) and artifact traits (Skeletal Shattering). Hint: There's no melee attack without the adds up, so s/he'll have to refresh Boneshield every 30s.

Death's Caress is, at most, a pulling tool. Remove from bars. Blood's Filler is Heart Strike, as it provides 50% more RP (and therefore considerably more Death Strikes, our primary DPS AND Heal). If they aren't in range of the Engine of Souls for some reason, move to the Engine.

As a more general note, 24% haste (armory) is a little low. Good enough, but a little low.

[Taalyn]

Thanks for the analysis. Our raid was confused because she doesn't ever get hit so hard on any boss really. The first week our attempts on Desolate Host were mechanical failures, she wasnt taking nearly as much as damage as she did last week. It just felt really off.

[Raiz]

As a more general note, 24% haste (armory) is a little low. Good enough, but a little low.

May I know exactly why we need more haste ?

Also you guy forgot his DnD uptime ? He casted it only 7 times. No wonder why he's missing a lot of RP if he casts Death Caress instead of HS.

[wilster]

May I know exactly why we need more haste ?

Also you guy forgot his DnD uptime ? He casted it only 7 times. No wonder why he's missing a lot of RP if he casts Death Caress instead of HS.

Haste target w/out buffs/boneshield is about 30-40% so you can lower your GCD and increase rune regen, enabling more HS and DS. In other words, more DPS and HPS/Mitigation

[Saverem]

Can anyone help me out and figure out why our Blood DK is taking so much damage from Boneshards? Our healers were having issues keeping the DK up and based on other logs she was taking way more damage from Boneshards. Also would it be better to have the Prot Pally upstairs and the DK downstairs?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...2xFr8#fight=14

291k HPS on a fight he was taking in 860k DTPS is just beyond pathetic. I'm not going to call him a bad player since I don't know him, but I can objectively call him a bad Blood DK. If he's taking in 860k damage per second, he should be easily breaking 600k HPS on himself. He's doing less than half the healing that he should be doing.

[Deleted]

May I know exactly why we need more haste ?

Also you guy forgot his DnD uptime ? He casted it only 7 times. No wonder why he's missing a lot of RP if he casts Death Caress instead of HS.

More haste = more runes = more heartstrikes = more deathstrikes, haste is all you want bro, it will never devalue at this rate due to our mechanics

[Raiz]

More haste = more runes = more heartstrikes = more deathstrikes, haste is all you want bro, it will never devalue at this rate due to our mechanics

How much more DS are we talking about ? I feel like those kind of answers are pretty vague because I could say the same with mastery (more mastery = more heal = more blood shield = yadda yadda).
Let's say we're fighting a boss and 5% more haste would've given me 5 more death strike. But I had 5% less mastery meaning less blood shield. In the end how much "effective" heal are we talking about in term of Death Strike ? 2,5 ?

All in all, I feel like we're overvaluing the stats, because the Ilvl alone is doing a pretty good job.

I wouldn't say 25% haste is "bad". It won't stop you tanking mythic.

[Deleted]

How much more DS are we talking about ? I feel like those kind of answers are pretty vague because I could say the same with mastery (more mastery = more heal = more blood shield = yadda yadda).
Let's say we're fighting a boss and 5% more haste would've given me 5 more death strike. But I had 5% less mastery meaning less blood shield. In the end how much "effective" heal are we talking about in term of Death Strike ? 2,5 ?

All in all, I feel like we're overvaluing the stats, because the Ilvl alone is doing a pretty good job.

I wouldn't say 25% haste is "bad". It won't stop you tanking mythic.

You are incorrect. The fact of the matter is that mastery will only create a sheild based on the amount healed by death strike. Death strike heal is both capped and has a minimal value and a max value, so that means in average the max shield you can create with mastery lets say at 100% is equal to be 15% of your total health since the limits are 10-20%. Has such you sacrifice huge stats budgets for a marginal gain, since 100% is deep in heavy DR, on the other hand this shield stacks, and you can use DS multiple times in a row because there is no CD, that means stacking haste allows to stack this shield and at same time heal more health. so your 41% mastery means your sheild has aroun 7% total, while i can't do sheild that big i can reach that value cause i will deathstrike far more then you, in addition i mitigate more damge since i will heal all far more then you do to use of dps, in addition bosses and mobs hit for far more then a paltry 7% so in your going to get starved has well in the long run,in addition i have other stats meaning in the long run i have more TOF

This is not vague, this is a very evident mechanic and logical, it has been like this since the start of expansion with little to no change, if you read your abilities you will come to this same conclusion. If you still do not believe, head to "icy veins" they have the calculations for you there if you wish. But the matter of the fact that we are all focusing on runic generation traits should have given you the tip. At the same time if you check top raiders you will see the same reasoning, in addition when going through logs, one of the main ways to point out a bad BDK is to check the number of DS and HS per minute and if he stayed inside DnD. DO you wish more tips?

[Raiz]

snip

I've never been a math guy, but I feel like you're missing the point. Do you think you'd not be able to tank if you had, say, all your haste converted to crit or mastery (won't say vers since I believe it's our 2nd best stat) while keeping the same overall Ilvl's gear ? I've always wanted to know how it'd play out.

[figuratively]

I've never been a math guy, but I feel like you're missing the point. Do you think you'd not be able to tank if you had, say, all your haste converted to crit or mastery (won't say vers since I believe it's our 2nd best stat) while keeping the same overall Ilvl's gear ? I've always wanted to know how it'd play out.

It would fucking suck. You'd take damaging hits more quickly than you could hope to mitigate them.

[TwentyTwelve]

Whilst people might aim for 30-40% haste before boneshield it really dosen't matter that much compared to having 24%... I tank with 23% haste just fine, would i like more haste? Hell yeah but due to how stupid the ilvl scaling is at the moment that isn't always possible.

The answer is clear as day as many have pointed out, the BDK is just overall playing terrible, either have the dk research the class OR it might simply be a case of actually trying. The dmg may seem a bit high but you have all the self healing in the world.

Literally as many have said, Bone shield must be up at all times, let it drop once? You messed up but it's not end of the world if you realise your mistake and get it back up, but anything below 90% is just lolwat.

Blood boil does exactly the same as deaths caress except it doesn't cost a rune, it does more damage, it hits multiple targets but it has less range... At the very most you use deaths caress to agro a mob but even then, just death grip.

[wilster]

I've never been a math guy, but I feel like you're missing the point. Do you think you'd not be able to tank if you had, say, all your haste converted to crit or mastery (won't say vers since I believe it's our 2nd best stat) while keeping the same overall Ilvl's gear ? I've always wanted to know how it'd play out.

I wouldn't say unable to tank, just not as efficient. Healers would have to focus more on you as with no haste your GCD is maxxed at 1.5 seconds, meaning longer periods of time between DS's giving the boss more time to dmg you further. On the other end of the spectrum if you have 40-50% haste (including boneshield buff) your GCD is around 1 sec giving you access to DS quicker.

If you ran full mastery then sure you would get bigger shields but I don't even think its possible to get enough mastery to make it worth the exchange. Just for example, if a boss hits you for 10 million over 5 seconds, you heal for 2 mil. With 30% mastery your shield is only about 660,000. If you could double that at the loss of all haste your shield would be at 1.2 mil (less than most boss auto attacks still) but get less DS's to build that back up over the entire fight.

Again it is not that you would be unable to tank, but you become even more dependent on your healers as well as possibly having several seconds of downtime in a fight that you could otherwise be doing more damage and healing.

[Deleted]

I think your miss understanding something from what i reading, the current status quo isn't that you can't tank if you don't stack x or y gear, the issue like many pointed, is that at the long run your both more healing intensive and difficult to heal. I have to contradict the person that stated that being at 23% haste is no better then 30% before bonesheild, there are 2 things that stacking haste solves, our current rotation, and our mitigation. We heal to mitigate damage and the more haste the more resources we have to heal when required, while keeping buff and slashing our VPE CD, the basis is like a train, you have to keep pumping coal to move, but if you pump faster you move faster.

At first i also did not believe that going full haste was the answer, but from what i am experiencing, specially when i get bloodlust to compare, is that the more resources i have, the faster i can use DS/HS the better my mitigation and the more relaxed the tanking in particular for the healer. Hey do the math, or check logs, or try it out, its a worlds difference

[Deleted]

I think your miss understanding something from what i reading, the current status quo isn't that you can't tank if you don't stack x or y gear, the issue like many pointed, is that at the long run your both more healing intensive and difficult to heal. I have to contradict the person that stated that being at 23% haste is no better then 30% before bonesheild, there are 2 things that stacking haste solves, our current rotation, and our mitigation. We heal to mitigate damage and the more haste the more resources we have to heal when required, while keeping buff and slashing our VPE CD, the basis is like a train, you have to keep pumping coal to move, but if you pump faster you move faster.

At first i also did not believe that going full haste was the answer, but from what i am experiencing, specially when i get bloodlust to compare, is that the more resources i have, the faster i can use DS/HS the better my mitigation and the more relaxed the tanking in particular for the healer. Hey do the math, or check logs, or try it out, its a worlds difference

[Philondra]

OP, your guild seems to be similar to mine--focusing on heroic with no intention of going into mythic--so I'll share with you my Desolate Host heroic kill log from last week, since this is the fight you're asking about. I'm not the world's best DK and make plenty of mistakes, but I think I do well enough.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...8&type=healing

As you can see, my healing parses 94th percentile for my ilevel and I beat all the healers. A lot of it is knowing the fight and knowing when to Death Strike, but an equal portion is making sure you keep all your buffs up. My biggest mistakes are not using my cooldowns frequently and having a Gravewarden (two piece T20 bonus) uptime of only 82%, but my fundamentals are solid, with 99.45% uptime of Bone Shield and Ossuary. Your tank is doing none of those things, so get her to focus on pressing that Marrowrend button. People here will say that it's not good to overcap on Bone Shield charges, which is true, but in your tank's case, it's okay if she over-corrects for a couple resets until she gets in the habit of maintaining those charges!

I would also like to note that my current unbuffed haste is 17%, so you absolutely do not need to stack haste in order to perform properly as blood. It is our best stat, but I would urge you to go for ilevel first.