Is there even a point to ranked pvp anymore?

[Lykaboss]

Yeah.. no.

MoP was a shitbag. TBC was.... meh. It introduced the concept that balance should be built around deathmatch in a box and that wasn't good.

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compared to your 38 posts and nothing of merit said?

Youve literally been proven utterly wrong on every statement you've made.

Enjoy ignore.

You contribute nothing.

Things ive done though?

Proven the "gear doesn't matter" myth to be an outright lie via math.
Proven the ladder collapse with math and hard data. (and correctly predicted months ahead of time).
Proven the massive PvP decline with math and hard data. And correctly predicted it months ahead of time.
Proven the massive failure of templates, why they dont work, and how they will never work. (With math).
Proven the massive failure of the initial AP system and how it negatively impacted PvP in a massive way that proved the "you can just jump right into PvP in Legion" was a lie for the first 7 months. (With math).
Proven that the Honor system, as originally intended, was a 2 1/2 month slog to get all your honor talents unlocked to even begin to PvP. With math. Notice how they changed it within a month of launch. Predicted ahead of time.

Have the ability to look outside my own narrow zone of interest - which is fun group oriented PvP - and predicted how a lot of the changes will damage PvP as a whole for the entire community - those of us who view rated as cancerous shit and even those of you who like rated.

Things you've done:

Come into a thread and said "Blizzard is great" or "Nuh uh".

Bye, junior.




No, you can't, because 1+1 does not equal 3.

Broke the whole thing down months ago.

Gear matters precisely as much, or more, than it did before.

You. Are. Wrong.

That's not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of basic addition and multiplication.

If you believe otherwise, then you don't really know how the system works and where the multipliers and templates interact with each other and how (which is excusable, since Blizzard has done a shit job documenting).

It's all been proven out in-game, too, dozens of times by equipping gear and reworking talents to verify the coefficients.

Gear is just as important now as it ever was. Period. Moreso, actually.



Ive been playing since the original beta son. You were what, 10?

The class balance right now is a fucking joke. One-stun instagibs are not fun or balanced gameplay.

Ok so i had a look at a few of your posts and the only thing youve proven is that your your a deluded self absorbed pompous clown! xD Youre posts are illiterate ramblings that almost always always derail from the actual point youre trying to make. Also ide rather have 38 posts with nothing of merit that 2700 lmao thats alot of time youve put into to showing the internet your dumb af. Also youve got the toxic mmo attitude of everyone is wrong except and i will lie to try and prove my point. This math you talk of doesnt exist you have literally just bare faced lie to people on the internet and that is just sad i actually pity you...also saying "lol enjoy ignore" just shows how pig headed you really are, NO ONE CARES about some random wste of space ignoring them on the internet. sometimes the truth hurts buddy but you had to hear it

[rda]

Ok so i had a look at a few of your posts and the only thing youve proven is that your your a deluded self absorbed pompous clown! xD Youre posts are illiterate ramblings that almost always always derail from the actual point youre trying to make. Also ide rather have 38 posts with nothing of merit that 2700 lmao thats alot of time youve put into to showing the internet your dumb af. Also youve got the toxic mmo attitude of everyone is wrong except and i will lie to try and prove my point. This math you talk of doesnt exist you have literally just bare faced lie to people on the internet and that is just sad i actually pity you...also saying "lol enjoy ignore" just shows how pig headed you really are, NO ONE CARES about some random wste of space ignoring them on the internet. sometimes the truth hurts buddy but you had to hear it

(I am not sure why you even posted this. It would be one thing if you said "you are wrong here and here" and said why. But you do nothing of the sort. Regardless of whether your opponent is right or wrong, your message is a waste of time.)

[Mokuna]

if your rating is decent you get insane gear from it with a low investment

[rda]

How was your post full of "Hahahahaha hurr durr" relevant? Hm?

https://www.esportsearnings.com/game...ld-of-warcraft

Do some math. Add up the prize pools for each year that were awarded for Warcraft eSports (aka Arena Tournaments, ignore the Hearthstone/HotS/OW numbers) and voila, you have a figure totalling in the millions. Was that hard?

If you can't easily discern how that's relevant to this discussion, I can't help you.

Sure, why not, let's do some math.

Top 25 tournaments totaled 2,541 thousand = 2.5 million. For the period of about 10 years, because the earliest tournaments are from 2008. That's unless I overlooked something even earlier.

The list contains a very promising "more" at the end but if we expand that "more", we will see that this more ends very quickly. At position 78 where we have super-grand tournaments with prizes of about $110 (woohoo!). The entire long tail sums up to about 548 thousand.

So, we are looking at 3 million total for all tournaments for 10 years.

That, my friend, is nothing. Just one tournament for, say, Hearthstone, now can easily total something like 1 million. And there are multiples of them per year. I am not even talking about MOBAs or CSGO.

WoW PVP in terms of tournament money does not exist and its entire history is a disappearing figure close to zero when you take it in scale appropriate for something loudly called "esport".

Happy to be of service.

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Don't try to change the subject now that you've been proven wrong. What I consider "big" or "little" has no relevance here.

So, you just wanted to say that the total figure for all WoW tournaments from all years is in the millions regardless of this being tiny in context? I thought you were trying to say that WoW PVP is in great shape and used that as an illustration, no? OK.

[Kagthul]

if your rating is decent you get insane gear from it with a low investment

And by its nature, less than 10% of people can get that rating.

Its a strictly enforced pyramidal ladder system.

[Mafic]

You're right, we can use math to prove that gear matters less now then it ever has before. And no, not trolling, I genuinely believe that the classes are pretty well balanced at the moment. Maybe you haven't been around long enough to remember the shit storm that's been the previous expansions.

This has to be a troll....

Concordance alone blows that statement out of the water....having three % more resilience on a healer makes them a demi god compared to a person that is 30 ilevels lower....

I could go on but yeah Blizzard tricked you with their slick marketing tactics and gimmicks.

If gear didn't matter then gladiator gear would appear more often in random BGs, warden towers, etc.

Why so much scarcity towards PVP gear if "gear doesn't matter"? Because it does matter and always will.

[MagusHenosis]

One thing that I will say, is that rated PvP in its current form is a complete mess.

So many of you think the arena is really important for one thing, but then when you come out of the arena, I totally overpower you (no matter who you are now) lol!!!

That's because I train in a wide variety of settings, and I feel VERY sure of my abilities in BGs and WPvP.

Sure, I am somewhat out of my element in the arena, but then again, doing the arena all the time isn't even good for you!!!

Perhaps ALL instanced PvP should become rated, even allowing solo queue???

[Deleted]

Why did you play previously? If it's fun, then play it. Luckily Legion fixed most of the issues in PvP, no longer does gear matter, classes are finally pretty balanced. It's a good time to PvP if you enjoy it.

Really amazing that some people think this. I've done pvp since vanilla. The only times I remember balance being worse were during arena PTR in vanilla, season 5 in wotlk (DK/pala/TnT hunter), and the beginning of cata with warriors.

You can usually tell how good/bad class balance is by how effectively high skillcap specs can beat fotm specs. At the moment most the players in gladiator range are basically fotm rerollers. In most expansions the best players can make specs work but the pruning and dumbing down of legion make this impossible much of the time.

[Sencha]

I think pet battles are pointless but I don't start a thread to let MMO-C know about my preferences. Nobody cares.

[Saverem]

I mean, other than for the elite transmog. But besides that is there any reason why I should queue up. Seems kind of pointless.

Title, Mount, Mog, same as its always been...

[Caolela]

Jesus christ, not again. Well I guess we'll always have nubs and/or fanboys coming out of the woodwork.

■ Mafic was right when he said: "If gear didn't matter then gladiator gear would appear more often in random BGs, warden towers, etc. Why so much scarcity towards PVP gear if "gear doesn't matter"? Because it does matter and always will." It's very obvious to anyone who's played WoW and knows how things work in the game - things of greater use, ilvl, or power are generally scarcer than things of lesser. Time to get over the lies Blizz has fed you.

■ Kag was right when he gave the actual numbers that come from Blizz, blue posts, and the various sources he's mentioned. He's always been correct about it and has discussed it in detail quite often along with several of us. But the info from Blizz has been cryptic and misleading at best, and Kag's done a great job in deciphering it. Plenty of threads here that just require a search to find.

■ rda was right when he talked about e-sports and the like. WoW e-sports is an embarrassing failure. They know it and we know it. The Euro Cup of a few weeks ago that I posted proved it once again: goddamned pathetic.

All of these guys I've found to be honest and objective about their posts, and are part of the very small group here including myself that have warned people on MMO-C (and sometimes Blizz forums) about the bullshit that Blizz has spun. All of us were talking about the exact issues above, and similar terrible decisions from Blizz, well before Legion launched and how they'd be a big problem - the very problems that have now come home to roost.

Blizz decided to shit on WoW PvP and its customers to make it a quasi-MOBA to increase profit margins. It hasn't worked. The end.

Actually, none of this is real hard to see if you have a good sense of how the game works, what players like and don't like, how Blizz operates - and you're not an idiot stick.

------------------------------


With a purposeful grimace and a terrible sound
He pulls the spitting high tension wires down

Helpless people on a subway train
Scream bug-eyed as he looks in on them

He picks up a bus and he throws it back down
As he wades through the buildings toward the center of town

Oh no, they say he's got to go - go go Godzilla
Oh no, there goes Tokyo - go go Godzilla

History shows again and again
How nature points up the folly of men

[Protean]

Oh, so by "totalling in the millions" you meant the total number over multiple years from all tournaments?

How many millions are we talking about exactly? Do you think this is big or what?

That word in the text you quoted literally means "the sum of".

[rda]

That word in the text you quoted literally means "the sum of".

I know.

But the guy brought it up to say that WoW PVP is big and doing fine. And even growing, I kid you not (LOL).

Here's the exact phrase:

"Rated PvP didn't start a "long decline". Unless you call emerging into eSports, national and international tournaments with grand prizes totalling in the millions, and a huge surge of players coming to the game not only for the PvE fun, but also for the competitive aspect of PvP a "long decline"."

You see? He wrote that prizes are "totalling in the millions" to convey the idea that things are going great. (Everything else in the phrase is complete BS as well, but let's even ignore it, we are talking about tournaments now.)

Well, when you add that single-digit millions are a figure for ~10 years, this is absolutely not doing great for an esport. The figure is not big, it is disappearingly small. It actually illustrates the notion that WoW PVP is crap and nobody is interested in "competing" in it.

[Krusza]

Yeah, right, you have no clue. PVP was one of the main endgame activities before they broke it. Go figure.

Kagthul has way too much patience.

No he doesn't. He blocks anyone that argues with his ideas.

The reason no one uses this forum and probably why all the mods left is because of people like you, Caolela and Kagthul - the 3 people who sit on this forum all day spewing flawed statistics and other nonsense that has no basis in reality when none of you actually play the game. You all sit there backing each other up and Caolela will then say "look, these 2 other people are supporting my idea! i win!!". Any good players who actually used this forum got fed up of the Three Retardos ruining every thread. And probably the weekly Cempa "This is OP" thread.

PvP was never the "main endgame" activity, if you think that you must be severely deluded. State statistics.

And let me guess, it uses something along the lines of "X amount of players played 1 BG/Arena this week" compared to "X amount of people raided this week"

This forum probably isn't the best place to ask these sort of questions. The majority of people who post here are people that don't even play the game and they're salty about their pride and joy being ruined so spout falsehoods in every thread. Yes, legion PvP is bad but there's no need to lie about shit.

I mean, the biggest poster on this forum is a hardstuck 1800 US RBGer with Warbound who claims he can't get higher because of cheaters, and that every high rated player in every bracket is a cheater.

When 2 people are allied with him, it's safe to abandon this forum. Just like the mods did.

[socialmaker]

only if you crawl yourself in the top 0.5% to get glad and mount.... or elite gear dunno kind of limited tbh and 99.5% of the pvp-ers get the short stick...

[Dacu]

Uhhhhh.....what was the point before legion? To get gear? Because that only took a few weeks at most.

[Krusza]

only if you crawl yourself in the top 0.5% to get glad and mount.... or elite gear dunno kind of limited tbh and 99.5% of the pvp-ers get the short stick...

Then that's the incentive to get better.

Be glad you even have anything. Tabards at 2.2 instead of 2.5, elite gear at 2k instead of 2.2, prestige rewards for easy mounts/titles/arti skins/toys/pets, tons of vicious mounts instead of the one horse from RBG... Legion has more rewards than ever for the majority of PvPers.