Guy gets reported until banned with new system

[Deleted]

I'm Widow, I am the hitscan, I'm getting jumped by Winston, but they still have a Pharah. So who gives then? Maybe they also have a Reaper or Symmetra or Bastion, which I could also handle pretty easily that other DPS would struggle to get near.

Who's to say the Junkrat is the one being most heavily countered by Pharah? If I'm Pharah, why am I bothered by what Junkrat is up to? I have free reign on their back line, or I'm aggressively hunting down flankers on our own that are tearing up ours. Basically anyone else on my team can handle Junkrat just as easily as I could, I'm wasting myself on him. I've lost matches because a Junkrat switched to deal with Pharah as 76, because they were a) a bad 76, and b) we lost all the damage on barriers being thrown up and suddenly Genji wasn't bouncing around trying to avoid dangerous ground anymore and could focus better on killing us.

So many of these calls to change are made entirely on presumptions and stereotypes, not the reality in the match. That's why it is scapegoating.

so true! I wish more people could have this awareness.
I mostly play Reaper - for a good reason. in 90%+ cases the enemy has a winston and or a D.Va, because this is "what the pros play". Those 2 heros are a feast to my guns. And still the other dps ask me to switch, because it doesn't fit the comp....

[Zamfix]

Makes sense. If you don't want to play competitively then you don't get to play in competitive mode. There's casual mode for people like him who "main" certain characters.

[Eapoe]

so true! I wish more people could have this awareness.
I mostly play Reaper - for a good reason. in 90%+ cases the enemy has a winston and or a D.Va, because this is "what the pros play". Those 2 heros are a feast to my guns. And still the other dps ask me to switch, because it doesn't fit the comp....

While accurate that Reaper is a great counter to tanks, you're not going to win a match against those tanks if they have a 76 and/or McCree with awareness and are aware enough to watch their tanks. Seen multiple times where Reaper doesn't work because they can't get close enough to be effective. Other times I've seen him be majorly effective.
I've also asked Reapers to switch before simply because the enemy team played together, and while the Reaper was trying to kill the Winston or Mercy with him, he was getting hit by Winston's beam as well as 76 firing into him from afar, maybe giving Reaper 1-2 shots before he's dead or runs away.
As stated before, there's so many factors at play that you can't say "why should I switch?" or "let someone else deal with them." Even the post you responded to shows the flaw in that mentality: "why should I care about Junkrat when someone else on my team could do it?" Maybe that Junk is in a good spot and holding your team back with another person. Maybe that Pharah could have disrupted Junk or even killed him that allowed the push. Maybe Pharah kills him and nothing changes. It's a team game, and sometimes it takes the team, or even just 1 other person, to kill others. How many Pharmercy combos do people see and then complain 76 can't handle it? Maybe someone else could switch that would help shut it down and help out that 76. Someone who sits on Junkrat while a 76 is asking for help killing Pharah, and complaining 76 isn't doing his job or "that's 76's job!" while firing grenades into DVa's matrix and not helping is just as much the problem as the other teams player.
Usually, in my experience, when people ask someone else to swap it's because they aren't helping the team. Sure, they might pick off a healer at the back, but if your team is getting outdamaged in a team fight because you aren't there to help, then killing that 1 healer isn't helping the team where it need some it most. Then you have other games where picking that healer makes the difference. ITS the issue where some people can't recognize what helps the most and become stubborn and refuse to try and change.

[Tharkkun]

Explain me how exactly sticking to your guns is trolling. Do you even know what the word means?
If a person who is mainly playing soldier & Mc cree is doing badly, but is trying their best, can you say they are trolling? No you cant.

Unless... Please specify what exactly trolling is, i would love to hear it.

If it's competitive it's borderline trolling. Especially considering people can play more than 2 characters so switching to something that you might do better against the opposing comp is how its done. Or go back to quickplay and practice until you're consistent. Competitive is not the place to learn how to play a character better.

[DeadmanWalking]

While accurate that Reaper is a great counter to tanks, you're not going to win a match against those tanks if they have a 76 and/or McCree with awareness and are aware enough to watch their tanks. Seen multiple times where Reaper doesn't work because they can't get close enough to be effective. Other times I've seen him be majorly effective.
I've also asked Reapers to switch before simply because the enemy team played together, and while the Reaper was trying to kill the Winston or Mercy with him, he was getting hit by Winston's beam as well as 76 firing into him from afar, maybe giving Reaper 1-2 shots before he's dead or runs away.
As stated before, there's so many factors at play that you can't say "why should I switch?" or "let someone else deal with them." Even the post you responded to shows the flaw in that mentality: "why should I care about Junkrat when someone else on my team could do it?" Maybe that Junk is in a good spot and holding your team back with another person. Maybe that Pharah could have disrupted Junk or even killed him that allowed the push. Maybe Pharah kills him and nothing changes. It's a team game, and sometimes it takes the team, or even just 1 other person, to kill others. How many Pharmercy combos do people see and then complain 76 can't handle it? Maybe someone else could switch that would help shut it down and help out that 76. Someone who sits on Junkrat while a 76 is asking for help killing Pharah, and complaining 76 isn't doing his job or "that's 76's job!" while firing grenades into DVa's matrix and not helping is just as much the problem as the other teams player.
Usually, in my experience, when people ask someone else to swap it's because they aren't helping the team. Sure, they might pick off a healer at the back, but if your team is getting outdamaged in a team fight because you aren't there to help, then killing that 1 healer isn't helping the team where it need some it most. Then you have other games where picking that healer makes the difference. ITS the issue where some people can't recognize what helps the most and become stubborn and refuse to try and change.

The problem with your arguement is that it has to go into other vectors outside the math to make it work. Now it isn't that the vectors are not relevant but rather once you start adding in vectors then the person on the other side can add vectors and essentially the argument turns into an infinite circle jerk.
"Yes but if you have a McCree or 76 countering the Reaper and my team has a Doomfist who is one shoting your McCree then the Reaper can counter all tanks." And, "Well if you have a Doomfist we would have a Sombra to shut him down so McCree can shut down Reaper." And, "Well then we take a Torbjorn to protect the area Doomfist is in so she can't survive to hack him so Doomfist can kill McCree and Reaper can kill your tanks..."

See, infinite circle jerk. You can pull counters out of thin air all day long but ultimately talking means nothing compared to the walk. These arguments constantly pop up in games workshop gaming clubs where two guys constantly spit out units that would counter the others and ultimately it meant nothing as a legitimate argument because what happened on the table would be entirely different than their imaginary game.

[Nurvus]

If I feel like someone is going to use this against me and get me kicked, rare as it is, and especially if the player is part of a 3-4 player premade in a dungeon or something, I will take advantage of it. For instance, if they are trashing me badly while I am tanking or trolling like mad and I expect or fear they will kick me because of their actions (and obviously, I don't deserve it) I will vote kick one of them and say something to the extent of "lol tank" or "terrible tank" or something else, and they'll vote yes.

I do exactly the same.
I once joined a dungeon, where the game ported me far behind the group, and I said so in chat, and was running towards them when Tank didn't give a damn and pulled. Before the boss finished, I votekicked tank saying "lazy rogue" and the tank was gone.

Just shows how systems like these are super abusable.
Any kick system should be reviewed by GMs.
It would be a hassle at first, but GMs could then upgrade or downgrade/remove your ability to votekick based on how legitimately you use the tool.

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It's a little different in WoW where on a kick vote it pops up Yes or No. In Overwatch on computer (not sure about consoles), you have to spend time trying to convince your team AND the opposing team of this player being a troll or thrower, which usually doesn't happen unless you can convince them that they see the player is killing themelves or not being in team fights. Then those players have to go to a menu screen, then they have to go to a sub menu, then they have to click the right player, then they have to click report, then they have to click the right drop down, THEN they have to type a small amount of what the player is doing.
It's harder to get so called "mindless drones" to go thru that without it being pretty blatant and in your face.

The thing is Overwatch is a game where players pretty much shout at each other "pick x" or "don't pick y" because of a Meta that is only valid on a competitive level that they do NOT participate in.
Players get hysterical about their perceived knowledge and circlejerk votekick.
If everybody says Hanzo sucks, people will report you for playing it, regardless of whether it is true. It is perceived as true.

[Eapoe]

The problem with your arguement is that it has to go into other vectors outside the math to make it work. Now it isn't that the vectors are not relevant but rather once you start adding in vectors then the person on the other side can add vectors and essentially the argument turns into an infinite circle jerk.
"Yes but if you have a McCree or 76 countering the Reaper and my team has a Doomfist who is one shoting your McCree then the Reaper can counter all tanks." And, "Well if you have a Doomfist we would have a Sombra to shut him down so McCree can shut down Reaper." And, "Well then we take a Torbjorn to protect the area Doomfist is in so she can't survive to hack him so Doomfist can kill McCree and Reaper can kill your tanks..."

See, infinite circle jerk. You can pull counters out of thin air all day long but ultimately talking means nothing compared to the walk. These arguments constantly pop up in games workshop gaming clubs where two guys constantly spit out units that would counter the others and ultimately it meant nothing as a legitimate argument because what happened on the table would be entirely different than their imaginary game.

They do in fact mean something, and simply put, it's that everything people post here has to be taken with a grain of salt. I even put the reverse of the arguement in my own post, about how the arguement can work for or against someone. That's one reason, every time I even made a complaint post, I try to be as specific as possible as to what's going on in the match.
It's easy to say "I was on Pharah locking a healer out of a team fight the whole game by spawn camping them," but if that's not helping your team because you are absent from the team fight where they could have used spread damage or some helpful picks, then you are effectively not contributing as much as you think you are. The reverse also holds true, where sometimes that 1 healer being spawn camped is worth it.
The point I was making is that it doesn't hold true every game 1 way or the other, and just because you effectively spawn camped 1 game doesn't mean that it will help in the next. People are so quick to say "I do this and it was effective," that they don't realize it might be effective for them, but not for the team.

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I do exactly the same.
I once joined a dungeon, where the game ported me far behind the group, and I said so in chat, and was running towards them when Tank didn't give a damn and pulled. Before the boss finished, I votekicked tank saying "lazy rogue" and the tank was gone.

Just shows how systems like these are super abusable.
Any kick system should be reviewed by GMs.
It would be a hassle at first, but GMs could then upgrade or downgrade/remove your ability to votekick based on how legitimately you use the tool.

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The thing is Overwatch is a game where players pretty much shout at each other "pick x" or "don't pick y" because of a Meta that is only valid on a competitive level that they do NOT participate in.
Players get hysterical about their perceived knowledge and circlejerk votekick.
If everybody says Hanzo sucks, people will report you for playing it, regardless of whether it is true. It is perceived as true.

And yet there are countless games where people say Hanzo/Tracer/Genji sucks and these players are not getting reported. 1/2 the time when someone complains a team member is throwing, they don't even report it and are usually blowing off steam. Even if they are 80% certain someone is throwing, they usually don't report them.
Again, this is personal experience; however, that is much like yours. Even in WoW, I can say I've seen the same thing happen as you and the other poster stated, but I've seen it happen many more times where someone votes to kick and the vote fails.

[Deleted]

If it's competitive it's borderline trolling. Especially considering people can play more than 2 characters so switching to something that you might do better against the opposing comp is how its done. Or go back to quickplay and practice until you're consistent. Competitive is not the place to learn how to play a character better.

Yeah you call it borderline trolling, but you know you cant really call it that, because its not a reportable offence.

It is not against the rules to only play one character, unless the devs state so, nor is it against the rules to actually practice in comp mode.

[Perfectdoll]

nor is it against the rules to actually practice in comp mode.

Technically not, no. But when the practice is to the detriment of the team and the person practicing is being repeatedly asked to switch off of the character they're practicing because they're not contributing and they refuse? It may not be trolling but it is poor teamwork. _If_ one choose to practice in competitive for whatever reason... It should bloody well not be to the exclusion of teamwork or actually winning the game, nor should it be the first time you touch the character (lovely stuff that, the season after Sombra came out I had the fortune of having not one but several comp matches where different people thought it an excellent time to try Sombra for the first time. It went about as well as one can expect).

Another exhibit of poor teamwork I can mention is when you (general you) choose to play Genji into a Winston, Symmetra and Torbjörn and constantly get yourself killed and then, when repeatedly asked by the four people you're not grouped with (they were grouped with someone who instalocked Mercy) to change to something with more impact... respond to said (admittedly increasingly annoyed asking, but it was by no mean harsh from the start, it was phrased along the lines of 'hey genji might not be the best choice considering they have X, Y and Z) by lashing out and telling people to stop flaming them, leaving voice comms and then threatening to go afk in spawn if people doesn't stop bothering them. We did win the match, but with very close margins that would several times have been solved by the Genji being on comms. Several times there was a low WM up above that was being called out that he could have dealt with... but since he wasn't on comms he didn't and she got repeatedly healed up from range.

[Jessicka]

People have been a lot quieter since this announcement, I'm actually feeling more comfortable and confident picking Widow and Sombra from the start. That was unexpected.

[Jtbrig7390]

There's a big difference betwean playing specific characters because you are good at them, and playing specific characters even when you are countered HARD.
In the second case it can be considered as throwing the match or trolling.

No it isn't and blizzard has been clear on this like @Rotted said.

Make a pre-made team if u want people to make the perfect picks.

[Deleted]

Technically not, no. But when the practice is to the detriment of the team and the person practicing is being repeatedly asked to switch off of the character they're practicing because they're not contributing and they refuse? It may not be trolling but it is poor teamwork. _If_ one choose to practice in competitive for whatever reason... It should bloody well not be to the exclusion of teamwork or actually winning the game, nor should it be the first time you touch the character (lovely stuff that, the season after Sombra came out I had the fortune of having not one but several comp matches where different people thought it an excellent time to try Sombra for the first time. It went about as well as one can expect).

Another exhibit of poor teamwork I can mention is when you (general you) choose to play Genji into a Winston, Symmetra and Torbjörn and constantly get yourself killed and then, when repeatedly asked by the four people you're not grouped with (they were grouped with someone who instalocked Mercy) to change to something with more impact... respond to said (admittedly increasingly annoyed asking, but it was by no mean harsh from the start, it was phrased along the lines of 'hey genji might not be the best choice considering they have X, Y and Z) by lashing out and telling people to stop flaming them, leaving voice comms and then threatening to go afk in spawn if people doesn't stop bothering them. We did win the match, but with very close margins that would several times have been solved by the Genji being on comms. Several times there was a low WM up above that was being called out that he could have dealt with... but since he wasn't on comms he didn't and she got repeatedly healed up from range.

The problem with the keywords "poor teamwork" is that they are being interpreted wildly different, and usually used as some way to bend stuff into an excuse for the reportee to report something else they dont like.

He didnt swap when i asked him to? What a poor teammate, reported for poor teamwork.
He didnt go left when we all went right? Must be poor teamwork
He did not go on voice? Poor teamwork, reported.
He plays widow into dva and winston? Poor teamwork since it degrades our team comp and win chance. Reported


Basically "poor teamwork" is used a lot as a "The person did not do what I/We told him to, and this annoys us greatly, we would like him banned"

You can always ask, once, if the person is sure on their pick. But you can never expect people to swap, or begin to harass them for playing the game.
It doesnt matter if he is counterpicked, or an extremely bad genji. Because you cannot report someone for being low skilled at the game, if you could, anyone below X tier would be auto-banned, and that wouldnt make much sense would it.

[Fluffyfluff]

lol just had a comp game with this guy called "kelgone" said if doesn't see a 2 2 2 comp he will just afk at base and 5 v 6 this match which he did lol easy report

[Mlz]

Pretty much.

You get these meta slaves and control freaks and other types so entrenched in their hysteria over it that they actually stop acknowledging what words mean anymore. Suddenly everything is "feeding" and "trolling" in their mind, and they expect Blizzard to step in and enforce their will on their team - but of course everyone else on their team is wrong.

Chances are that if you think you're amazing on your widow at 2k, in reality you'd do 200x better on any of the so-called meta heroes, such as soldier. Get your shit together and learn to aim on easy heroes before picking the ones with higher skill-cap. But people like you mostly just care about their edgy sombras and what not despite sucking harder than a hooker on a free trial night.

[Deleted]

u cant be ban for playeing non meta heros , blizzards didn't say u can't play them all they say u should swap heros to counter enemy , if u got ban beacouce u toxic and they just checed your logs for toxic