4pT20/2pT19 vs 2pT20/2pT19 & Leggo shoulders

[Hewliganz]

So like the title says my 4pT20/2pT19 with Vigor ring currently sims higher than 2pT20/2pT19 with Leggo shoulders.. but in the boss fights that I've tested it on it has performed a bit lower. I'm sure I could most likely fix some issues with my rotation and such but do you guys think going 4p/2p with Vigor ring actually the way to go?

Just looking for some thoughts on which set up people will prefer. I am running with denial and KJ trinket in both setups just to put that out there.

[Deleted]

Will be using 4pc/2pc + vigor ring for Fallen avatar and KJ Mythic progress, as it makes being able to use feint a lot easier, and makes keeping nightblade uptime a lot easier.

[Won7on]

I agree, playing with T19 2pc is a MUCH more "comfortable" playstyle. Whether that's 2pc+2pc with Shoulders or 2p+4p with Vigor ring. Pure 4p builds are punished too heavily for boss downtime IMO, as running out to soak/target swap for just a few seconds results in Nightblade falling off and subsequently delays your big burst. A build with T19 2pc can just put up a 38 second NB and hang out for a bit, if need be.

Of course, most Rogues are going Assassination anyway for Avatar, I think...

[Deleted]

I agree, playing with T19 2pc is a MUCH more "comfortable" playstyle. Whether that's 2pc+2pc with Shoulders or 2p+4p with Vigor ring. Pure 4p builds are punished too heavily for boss downtime IMO, as running out to soak/target swap for just a few seconds results in Nightblade falling off and subsequently delays your big burst. A build with T19 2pc can just put up a 38 second NB and hang out for a bit, if need be.

Of course, most Rogues are going Assassination anyway for Avatar, I think...

I am very worried about future of Subtlety. I dont like it at all. I mean, what will happen once ilvls start going high enough to make t19(and maybe even CoF) not viable anymore? And if best build still will be 231xx12(and variations...) and 111xx13 obviously... the gameplay will be horrible. For every evis outside of shadow dance you will have to cast one nightblade, and most of the time you will just be backstabbing. Less uptime on shadow blades too, combined with 15-18s nightblade and only 2 shadow dance charges that recharge much slower than with enveloping shadows.

I really wish gloomblade(krosus, avatar....) and 2pT19 were baseline. Otherwise i cant see how i will be able to deal with sub gameplay that is coming. Even with cof and 2pt19 gameplay is getting annoying without enveloping shadows. Backstab periods are so damn slow right now, and its going to be more of them + more NB refreshing all paired up with less shadow blades.
T21 so far doesnt seem to do much to compensate for all of it.

[Deleted]

I am very worried about future of Subtlety. I dont like it at all. I mean, what will happen once ilvls start going high enough to make t19(and maybe even CoF) not viable anymore? And if best build still will be 231xx12 (and 111xx13)... the gameplay will be horrible. For every evis outside of shadow dance you will have to cast one nightblade, and most of the time you will just be backstabbing. Less uptime on shadow blades too, combined with 15-18s nightblade and only 2 shadow dance charges that recharge much slower than with enveloping shadows.

I really wish gloomblade(krosus, avatar....) and 2pT19 were baseline. Otherwise i cant see how i will be able to deal with sub gameplay that is coming. Even with cof and 2pt19 gameplay is getting annoying without enveloping shadows. Backstab periods are so damn slow right now, and its going to be more of them + more NB refreshing all paired up with less shadow blades.

I suspect we're going to see op trinkets in the next tier that will alleviate the loss of CoF and t19. But the spec will need more tuning next expansion for sure.

[Won7on]

I agree, I would take a 2-3% nerf for something like T19 2pc baseline... the spec just plays so much better when you aren't using half your CPs to refresh Nightblade.

Fortunately I have some good Mythic NH tier and 2p+2p or 2p+4p with Vigor ring are both quite viable, so I'll probably keep using one of those builds as long as I can.

[Deleted]

What ilvl do your t19 pieces have tho? I wasn't lucky on tforged t19 pieces especially my cowl is just 895. T19 2PC with cowl/cloak and 4PC T20 with Bracers/Ring still sim better on any cleave or heavy movement fight. It is a pretty damn viable alternative to switching to Sin for Avatar tbh. I cant stand Sin anymore and dont wanna swap my spec but without T19 2PC Avatar is really horrible to play

[tawnos42]

So in all that the bracers are still the assumed first legendary and its a question of whether to pair them with shoulders or the new ring?

The extent of the nerf to the bracers was so huge i was afraid they were no longer going to be very good - it is a relief if that is not the case since their effect also helps the gameplay. That effect would be a nice one to see them 'bake in' to the spec as well.

[Deleted]

So in all that the bracers are still the assumed first legendary and its a question of whether to pair them with shoulders or the new ring?

The extent of the nerf to the bracers was so huge i was afraid they were no longer going to be very good - it is a relief if that is not the case since their effect also helps the gameplay. That effect would be a nice one to see them 'bake in' to the spec as well.

In pure single target or light movement / cleave, Mantle/Bracers are still far ahead for me. Heavy movement and steady cleave like Avatar for example favors 2PC T19 + 4PC T20 with Bracers/Ring. I assume you might also want to play Bracers/Ring and T19/T20 mix on KJ myth since you cant stack adds. T19 2PC makes constant target swapping just so much smoother.

[Umbrex]

4 piece + bracers/mantle is still ahead in all ravenholt top 20 sims

[MisterBigglez]

I recently just started playing rogue again, I already had the shoulders and wrists so lucky me but today I got the soul ring. I thought at first it would just be crap for all specs but I did some simming and if I obtain helm and cloak mythic t19 at 905 it's an 11k increase. I just have to get those pieces now :P

It might not be a big gain but if it means the playstyle is more forgiving and comfortable, im all for dropping the shoulders and rocking that t19 while im raiding.

[Seliar]

4 piece + bracers/mantle is still ahead in all ravenholt top 20 sims

That's strange, because I don't sim higher with 4 t20H +mantle/bracers as with t19m+t20h+mantle/bracer, nor do I have higher dps in raids or target dummy. Actually, changing my t19 2set bonus for t20 4 set bonus is a 100k dps loss...