Feral - Blizzard just doing whatever?

[Valqt]

Isn't that exactly how druid is meant to be? Bit of everything?

Sounds like you're complaining about RP factor without realizing that ferals aren't actual cats, they are druids shapeshifting into cats. xd

[Whitepaw]

We have this whole discussion right now in the Feral sticky thread on this forum! Seems some Ferals these days simply don't want to be Druids - they just want to be cats, doing SR and bleeds.

[Deleted]

I found it very weird when i researched yesterday, from what i saw 2 out 5 combo points are with moonfire and regrowth.
So feral dps rotation is only 60% feral abilities.

not sure if stupid or trolling.
i can't see any reason you would ever use lunar aspiration. you would always use blood scent for ST and predator for aoe. you would never ever use lunar inspiration. no reason whatsoever. stop. now. please. you hurt my brain.
that and as said before, regrowth is only a part of your rotation if you use bloodtalons, which just so happens to be the best talent to go to for st. and in the case you want aoe, you wouldn't even use bloodtalons but would go for brutal slash.
on another note, why is this a problem exactly? in a case you take damage in a dung/raid, you can just get yourself (slightly) up while doing your rotation.

[Bearshield]

We have this whole discussion right now in the Feral sticky thread on this forum! Seems some Ferals these days simply don't want to be Druids - they just want to be cats, doing SR and bleeds.

I see these comments and have to wonder how long some of you have played your Druid. Back in the day, a good feral did spend most of their time in cat form, until they needed to pop out and innervate a healer, brez someone, cast tranquility to patch the raid, or go bear and pick up a loose mob. A good feral could do all of that AND pull off respectable damage. Those days are over though, Blizzard has killed the hybridity of the Druid and to a lesser extent, of the other hybrid classes as well. Casting Moonfire in forms doesn't make sense, and like someone else in this thread mentioned earlier, rotationally using a heal that more often than not is just going to waste anyhow certainly doesn't make things feel more "Druid". It literally exists solely to add to the complexity of the rotation.

[Polarthief]

on another note, why is this a problem exactly? in a case you take damage in a dung/raid, you can just get yourself (slightly) up while doing your rotation.

I wouldn't say it's a problem but it definitely feels weird to use healing spells as a Feral.

It also feels more weird that Feral has innate healing through a talent that's integrated in its rotation while Moonkin has nothing outside a horrible trait that heals for less than a non-Feral Regrowth.

[Whitepaw]

I wouldn't say it's a problem but it definitely feels weird to use healing spells as a Feral.

It also feels more weird that Feral has innate healing through a talent that's integrated in its rotation while Moonkin has nothing outside a horrible trait that heals for less than a non-Feral Regrowth.

Ferals have been healing since Vanilla - so that is the definition of not being weird. The fact that the devs have taken almost all our healing spells from us in this expansion is what feels weird, since that is a deviation from the norm.

But having a dps sequence with a healing spell integrated is definitely bad design. And the fact that it is used as much as it is has probably led to a nerf in healing, so we now have Regrowth, which heals for 8% of total health.

Compare that to the selfhealing of a rogue (with built-in damage reduction).

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I see these comments and have to wonder how long some of you have played your Druid. Back in the day, a good feral did spend most of their time in cat form, until they needed to pop out and innervate a healer, brez someone, cast tranquility to patch the raid, or go bear and pick up a loose mob. A good feral could do all of that AND pull off respectable damage. Those days are over though, Blizzard has killed the hybridity of the Druid and to a lesser extent, of the other hybrid classes as well. Casting Moonfire in forms doesn't make sense, and like someone else in this thread mentioned earlier, rotationally using a heal that more often than not is just going to waste anyhow certainly doesn't make things feel more "Druid". It literally exists solely to add to the complexity of the rotation.

Spot on. And remember, "back in the day" is about a year ago in WoD, when we could still do amazing stuff with Heart of the Wild, Dream of Cenarius, Nature's Vigil and Cyclone.

But I do think that Lunar Inspiration is an interesting talent. It could even have been competitive, if the devs had designed it to benefit from all the stuff that enhances our bleeds.

[Polarthief]

Ferals have been healing since Vanilla - so that is the definition of not being weird. The fact that the devs have taken almost all our healing spells from us in this expansion is what feels weird, since that is a deviation from the norm.

But having a dps sequence with a healing spell integrated is definitely bad design.

I didn't mean having healing spells; sorry I'm shit with words. I meant the bolded part.

And the fact that it is used as much as it is has probably led to a nerf in healing, so we now have Regrowth, which heals for 8% of total health.

Compare that to the selfhealing of a rogue (with built-in damage reduction).

Agreed, yet it's still way better than Balance! 8% per Combo Cycle vs... a flat 200k heal, once in every five times you take damage, and on a ridiculous cooldown for how miniscule the heal is.

Oh and upgrading the trait just makes it proc easier, not more often (lower cd) or proc better (more healing). Whoever came up with that trait definitely, most definitely, doesn't even play the fucking game.

All that said, for a hybrid DPS, Feral (and to a much greater degree, Balance) have very shit healing.

[Deleted]

All dps specs have some type of healing. Just because a spec has abilities that you disagree with, does not make them "bad design".

Where's my heal as a mage?

[Gorgodeus]

Where's my heal as a mage?

On your artifact weapon. Cauterizing Blink

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=194318/...terizing Blink

[Deleted]

On your artifact weapon. Cauterizing Blink

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=194318/...terizing Blink

I don't play fire, and that has a cooldown on top of being tied to blink. Not really useful.

[Morokite]

The idea seems to be that your a druid who specializes in being a cat but uses all his capabilities as a druid.
But i agree that blood talons is a very badly designed talent

[Tradu]

The idea seems to be that your a druid who specializes in being a cat but uses all his capabilities as a druid.
But i agree that blood talons is a very badly designed talent

It's a very well designed talent, if you don't like that you're using a "heal", just make a macro that changes the icon to something more pleasing to you.

[Krekal]

I dislike ferals

Edit: infracted -- post constructively.

[Kaharon]

So wasn't it like 40% overall dmg buff and blood talons 25% instead of the now 33% overall dmg buff and 20% blood talons? It appears they shifted the "buffs" down and nerfs up. I wonder if it is an overall damage gain now or if they just wanted to make the unskilled ferals feel special.

[Nigmatar]

Is the set 2 change new?

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Where's my heal as a mage?

absorbs are a form of healing

[RelaZ]

It's a very well designed talent, if you don't like that you're using a "heal", just make a macro that changes the icon to something more pleasing to you.

It's actually a terribly designed talent - especially for PvP.

It forces you to use your utility in fixed time spaces instead of when you actually want to, because otherwise you lose too much damage (=> decreased skill cap & fun). And pre-7.3 you can't even use PS on roots, only HT with Bloodtalons.

It's another one of those Legion damage-is-everything designs. It should've never made its way into PvP (in MoP it didn't because of HotW and WoD because of Shirvallah).

I sure fucking hope MoC is going to be BiS in PvP from now on.

But sure it might be great in PvE.

[Whitepaw]

It's actually a terribly designed talent - especially for PvP.

It forces you to use your utility in fixed time spaces instead of when you actually want to, because otherwise you lose too much damage (=> decreased skill cap & fun). And pre-7.3 you can't even use PS on roots, only HT with Bloodtalons.

It's another one of those Legion damage-is-everything designs. It should've never made its way into PvP (in MoP it didn't because of HotW and WoD because of Shirvallah).

I sure fucking hope MoC is going to be BiS in PvP from now on.

But sure it might be great in PvE.

Spot on.

Having to synchronise a survival ability with your dps rotation sucks, design wise. We should expect more from the developers.

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So wasn't it like 40% overall dmg buff and blood talons 25% instead of the now 33% overall dmg buff and 20% blood talons? It appears they shifted the "buffs" down and nerfs up. I wonder if it is an overall damage gain now or if they just wanted to make the unskilled ferals feel special.

Can we stop the differentiation between the "good" Ferals and the "bad"? People who use that kind of argument sound like douchebags.

OT: Our talents have had way too large effects on our dps output, if you compare to other specs. This has meant that our cookie cutter spec has been dominating and other talents have been very underperforming.

[Nigmatar]

Can we stop the differentiation between the "good" Ferals and the "bad"? People who use that kind of argument sound like douchebags.

bad ferals are shit and perform badly, how is that a problem ever?

[Tradu]

It's actually a terribly designed talent - especially for PvP.

It forces you to use your utility in fixed time spaces instead of when you actually want to, because otherwise you lose too much damage (=> decreased skill cap & fun). And pre-7.3 you can't even use PS on roots, only HT with Bloodtalons.

It's another one of those Legion damage-is-everything designs. It should've never made its way into PvP (in MoP it didn't because of HotW and WoD because of Shirvallah).

I sure fucking hope MoC is going to be BiS in PvP from now on.

But sure it might be great in PvE.

They could fix that with PvP talents(cba thinking up a way how, not my job, but off the top of my head... just make normal talents not work and give equivalent talents to some "normal" talents as PvE talents). In PvE it's absolutely fine(with the 7.3 change especially)

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Can we stop the differentiation between the "good" Ferals and the "bad"? People who use that kind of argument sound like douchebags.

Considering it's a very important distinction, no. There's a big difference between a well played Feral and a badly played one, so obviously that's going to be central to discussing changes to the spec.

[Kaharon]

Can we stop the differentiation between the "good" Ferals and the "bad"? People who use that kind of argument sound like douchebags.

OT: Our talents have had way too large effects on our dps output, if you compare to other specs. This has meant that our cookie cutter spec has been dominating and other talents have been very underperforming.

You are not wrong in the regard of talent choices being 90% set in stone yet there is a clear difference between good and bad ferals, now it may well be that ferals get punished for bad ferals not being able to play with the best talents because it is hard? We will see if this results in an overall dmg buff or not, yet I am somewhat distrustful.