Black Pigeon Speaks' weird interpretation of transhumanism

[Techno-Druid]

Immigration and egalitarianism aren't exactly what's keeping us from modifying human embryos en masse. There are ethical concerns that stem from our lack of understanding of many things such as the fact that CRISPR-Cas9 may not be as clean and cut as was once anticipated and may cause mutations in hundreds of genes.

There's also potential backlash from religious groups, Christians and religious people in general still make up a majority of the United States and while the concept of "Playing God" is a largely moot and arguably hypocritical imperative to bring up (Is selective breeding playing God?), any work on the human genome other than curing genetic diseases will most likely face considerable religious backlash.

Also, BPS seems to not understand that birthrates (and death rates) are almost always tied to socio-economics. As countries become more industrialized, they will undergo a sharp increase, stabilization and then a decline in birthrates just as Western Europe and East Asia.

[purebalance]

I mean people still talk about medical chips being a bad thing because "I don't want the guvment to track meeee!" when they have their little tracking device by their side 24/7 already.

[Manabomb]

Interpreting an individual curing ones own self implied imperfections as "playing god" is the problem of the religious group. It's their fault they can't put down their holy book and pick up a dictionary, or perhaps a thesaurus.

When you get down to it, if people are going to tout the ideals of "freedom of choice", that's going to have to apply to a lot more than just an embryo and most definitely is applicable to religion itself.

[Techno-Druid]

Interpreting an individual curing ones own self implied imperfections as "playing god" is the problem of the religious group. It's their fault they can't put down their holy book and pick up a dictionary, or perhaps a thesaurus.

When you get down to it, if people are going to tout the ideals of "freedom of choice", that's going to have to apply to a lot more than just an embryo and most definitely is applicable to religion itself.

Personally, I'm for morphological freedom under the cicircumstances that there is no danger towards others. In the regards to safety, I do believe the government should have some control.

CRISPR-Cas9 has the ability to change humanity forever, and I hope that change is ultimately a positive.

[Deleted]

This sounds like a fantastic step in the right direction. Humans cannot progress in their very primitive, fragile biological bodies. We must evolve our bodies rapidly to respond to the urgency of defending ourselves against the harsh environment of time, space and disease. Especially with the threat of overpopulation destroying our planet. Colonization of other planets is absolute priority in our species' survival right now. I am sad that this is not getting as much traction and attention as it should be.

We cannot make much progress by only being awake 12 hours a day, requiring food, water and shelter and needing space suits to fight the deadly conditions of vacuum. We need to be able to live for much longer in order for interstellar travel to become a reality. At least the first generation of interstellar travel. The third or fourth generation may allow us to travel several times faster than the speed of light once we learn how to be already travelling at that speed (wormholes or black holes). We need to evolve the human body AND the human mind to keep up with our own technology. This is like strapping a monkey to a rocket and sending him to Pluto. The monkey doesn't know how to use the controls, he is susceptible to aging, disease and death. His mind would not be able to handle the isolation either and would most likely go insane. He needs food, water and heating as well. These are things that weigh down rockets and make it harder for us to reach planets.

But then here are the issues that comes with it. The human nature to procreate will always be there so long as we have the primitive caveman instincts ingrained inside our brains from birth. What will we do about overpopulation? As beings that have become significantly stronger, so too will our technology. As we spread out across the galaxy, will we start declaring war on each other? What will those wars look like with the technology that we'd come up with at that time? Will it devastate entire sectors of the galaxy?

Will we end up wiping ourselves out? There are advantages to becoming super strong and super resilient but then the disadvantages comes with the biological mentality that we are born with. Will that stay or will we be removing it? Freedom of will starts to apply here, if we're going to remove things that humans may want to keep... then that's probably going to create some moral/ethical issues in the future. In fact, they've already started now.

I am completely for evolving humans into much stronger and better versions of ourselves. But only if we change our society's mindset. It's way too dangerous to have immortal super-soldiers going around firing mini-nukes casually like a wild wild west shootout. It's already too dangerous today as we're still using a bronze-age ideology in the 21st century where we have extremely powerful technology at our hands.

It is very exciting to imagine the possibilities and opportunities we'd have if we could do these things though. Boy, what would I give to become immortal, to never age or die. To be able to roam the universe and learn everything I can from it. To meet billions of alien civilizations and have relationships with them, to learn more from them, to have several lifetimes of happiness before moving onto somewhere else in the universe. And when we discover a way to leave this universe to enter a new one? That's where the real fun begins. Then multiple dimensions, then whatever is beyond that. Maybe there's no end because maybe the entire world that everything exists in is always changing and evolving to contain the world.

It's very, very exciting to think of the prospects of such a simple thing like improving our biological human bodies would have for our future as a species.

[Techno-Druid]

This sounds like a fantastic step in the right direction. Humans cannot progress in their very primitive, fragile biological bodies. We must evolve our bodies rapidly to respond to the urgency of defending ourselves against the harsh environment of time, space and disease. Especially with the threat of overpopulation destroying our planet. Colonization of other planets is absolute priority in our species' survival right now. I am sad that this is not getting as much traction and attention as it should be.

We cannot make much progress by only being awake 12 hours a day, requiring food, water and shelter and needing space suits to fight the deadly conditions of vacuum. We need to be able to live for much longer in order for interstellar travel to become a reality. At least the first generation of interstellar travel. The third or fourth generation may allow us to travel several times faster than the speed of light once we learn how to be already travelling at that speed (wormholes or black holes). We need to evolve the human body AND the human mind to keep up with our own technology. This is like strapping a monkey to a rocket and sending him to Pluto. The monkey doesn't know how to use the controls, he is susceptible to aging, disease and death. His mind would not be able to handle the isolation either and would most likely go insane. He needs food, water and heating as well. These are things that weigh down rockets and make it harder for us to reach planets.

But then here are the issues that comes with it. The human nature to procreate will always be there so long as we have the primitive caveman instincts ingrained inside our brains from birth. What will we do about overpopulation? As beings that have become significantly stronger, so too will our technology. As we spread out across the galaxy, will we start declaring war on each other? What will those wars look like with the technology that we'd come up with at that time? Will it devastate entire sectors of the galaxy?

Will we end up wiping ourselves out? There are advantages to becoming super strong and super resilient but then the disadvantages comes with the biological mentality that we are born with. Will that stay or will we be removing it? Freedom of will starts to apply here, if we're going to remove things that humans may want to keep... then that's probably going to create some moral/ethical issues in the future. In fact, they've already started now.

I am completely for evolving humans into much stronger and better versions of ourselves. But only if we change our society's mindset. It's way too dangerous to have immortal super-soldiers going around firing mini-nukes casually like a wild wild west shootout. It's already too dangerous today as we're still using a bronze-age ideology in the 21st century where we have extremely powerful technology at our hands.

It is very exciting to imagine the possibilities and opportunities we'd have if we could do these things though. Boy, what would I give to become immortal, to never age or die. To be able to roam the universe and learn everything I can from it. To meet billions of alien civilizations and have relationships with them, to learn more from them, to have several lifetimes of happiness before moving onto somewhere else in the universe. And when we discover a way to leave this universe to enter a new one? That's where the real fun begins. Then multiple dimensions, then whatever is beyond that. Maybe there's no end because maybe the entire world that everything exists in is always changing and evolving to contain the world.

It's very, very exciting to think of the prospects of such a simple thing like improving our biological human bodies would have for our future as a species.

I agree, human beings must modify our physical and cognitive conditions if we are to cope with ever advancing technology, artificial general intelligence and the colonization of our galaxy.

One of the issues in the distant future, which I've discussed with @Connal and @Theodarzna is the concept of a Great Speciation where extensive gene editing and relative planetary isolation and physical adaptation will create a multi-species, posthuman civilization. However, the prospect of life extension may help prevent the latter in many cases.

[Yvaelle]

I wrote this awhile back regarding my thoughts on Crispr (albeit for a less tech-woke audience):

Of all the coming technological leaps we make over the next century, this I think is the most important one.

Forget the automation revolution, forget climate change, artificial intelligence, and asteroid mining: we're going to accomplish all of those - but none of them quite compare to the paradigm shift of genome editing.

The impact of eradicating HIV, Zika, and Cancer: that's just the teaser. What follows is the ability to end all diseases, hereditary disorders, and genetic imperfections.
We can design perfection, and standardize toward it.

"GATTACA", I'm sure you're saying. I disagree.
The costs to implement these changes are (1) access to information and (2) willingness to take risk.
The setup cost is less than $1000 today. The material cost is trivial (viruses give themselves away).

1) The internet continues to change the rules on access to information. All information is digital. All digital information ends up online. Anything online is ultimately accessible. All information is therefore accessible.
We still haven't come to the fruition of the change the internet still brings to society, but the end to me is clear: secrets are an endangered species, and they will be extinct within the century.
The ability to deny access to genome editing by controlling access to information will not last much longer.

2) The willingness to take risks when life and quality of life are at stake - will create an unstoppable pull for this technology over the next century. If access is not available to everyone, everyone will take risks to gain access.

If all the above is true, then genome editing will be the most transformative technology of the next century. We will change what it means to be human, and ultimately each create our own definition.

We are living to see the extinction of humanity. Soon we will be post-human.

[GreenJesus]

This sounds like a fantastic step in the right direction. Humans cannot progress in their very primitive, fragile biological bodies. We must evolve our bodies rapidly to respond to the urgency of defending ourselves against the harsh environment of time, space and disease. Especially with the threat of overpopulation destroying our planet. Colonization of other planets is absolute priority in our species' survival right now. I am sad that this is not getting as much traction and attention as it should be.

We cannot make much progress by only being awake 12 hours a day, requiring food, water and shelter and needing space suits to fight the deadly conditions of vacuum. We need to be able to live for much longer in order for interstellar travel to become a reality. At least the first generation of interstellar travel. The third or fourth generation may allow us to travel several times faster than the speed of light once we learn how to be already travelling at that speed (wormholes or black holes). We need to evolve the human body AND the human mind to keep up with our own technology. This is like strapping a monkey to a rocket and sending him to Pluto. The monkey doesn't know how to use the controls, he is susceptible to aging, disease and death. His mind would not be able to handle the isolation either and would most likely go insane. He needs food, water and heating as well. These are things that weigh down rockets and make it harder for us to reach planets.

But then here are the issues that comes with it. The human nature to procreate will always be there so long as we have the primitive caveman instincts ingrained inside our brains from birth. What will we do about overpopulation? As beings that have become significantly stronger, so too will our technology. As we spread out across the galaxy, will we start declaring war on each other? What will those wars look like with the technology that we'd come up with at that time? Will it devastate entire sectors of the galaxy?

Will we end up wiping ourselves out? There are advantages to becoming super strong and super resilient but then the disadvantages comes with the biological mentality that we are born with. Will that stay or will we be removing it? Freedom of will starts to apply here, if we're going to remove things that humans may want to keep... then that's probably going to create some moral/ethical issues in the future. In fact, they've already started now.

I am completely for evolving humans into much stronger and better versions of ourselves. But only if we change our society's mindset. It's way too dangerous to have immortal super-soldiers going around firing mini-nukes casually like a wild wild west shootout. It's already too dangerous today as we're still using a bronze-age ideology in the 21st century where we have extremely powerful technology at our hands.

It is very exciting to imagine the possibilities and opportunities we'd have if we could do these things though. Boy, what would I give to become immortal, to never age or die. To be able to roam the universe and learn everything I can from it. To meet billions of alien civilizations and have relationships with them, to learn more from them, to have several lifetimes of happiness before moving onto somewhere else in the universe. And when we discover a way to leave this universe to enter a new one? That's where the real fun begins. Then multiple dimensions, then whatever is beyond that. Maybe there's no end because maybe the entire world that everything exists in is always changing and evolving to contain the world.

It's very, very exciting to think of the prospects of such a simple thing like improving our biological human bodies would have for our future as a species.

Did you watch that anime "Kado: The right answer" by any chance?

[kasuke06]

I'm personally hoping more for cyberization than genetic control. I like one thing I found about AI from a guy I can't even remember now, but he pointed out that the first true AI will not likely be a robot, it would be something integrated with a human to augment our senses and capabilities. Imagine being able to force yourself past your limits on a regular basis or even at will, a health monitor that actively tries to keep you on your diet and runs your various chemistries automatically to keep you up to date on your own health, someone to automatically call for help in emergencies.

[Zelk]

"actually curing diseases is bad"

[Deleted]

Did you watch that anime "Kado: The right answer" by any chance?

I don't watch these cartoon shows anymore but I just read the Wiki on that show. It's very interesting and it's very similar to what I want for the human race. I want them to advance to the point where they can enter multiple dimensions, manipulate time and never die. I want them to become literal libraries of knowledge. I want them to go forth and discover more about our universe, about the world that encapsulates all that exists if there is a world outside our universe.

[Shadowmelded]

I think CRISPR-Cas9 still has a few issues, and there will be a cleaner technique that does not cause the random edits that have been found to occurs.

CRISPR Gene Editing Can Cause Hundreds of Unintended Mutations
http://newsroom.cumc.columbia.edu/bl...ded-mutations/

Wasn't there some substantial criticism of that study? The original publication added this correction;

Corrected online 25 July 2017
Editorial Expression of Concern: The editors of Nature Methods are issuing an editorial expression of concern regarding this paper to alert our readers to concerns about interpretation of the data. Multiple groups have questioned the interpretation that single nucleotide changes seen in whole-genome sequences of two CRISPR–Cas9-treated mice are due to the CRISPR treatment. Since the background genetic variation between the control mouse and the CRISPR-treated animals is not known, an alternative proposed interpretation is that the observed changes are due to normal genetic variation. We are in contact with the critics and with the authors to examine this matter further. We will update our readers once these investigations are complete. All the authors do not agree with the journal's decision to issue an editorial expression of concern.

Further reading.

[GreenJesus]

I don't watch these cartoon shows anymore but I just read the Wiki on that show. It's very interesting and it's very similar to what I want for the human race. I want them to advance to the point where they can enter multiple dimensions, manipulate time and never die. I want them to become literal libraries of knowledge. I want them to go forth and discover more about our universe, about the world that encapsulates all that exists if there is a world outside our universe.

I mean.. fuck that. I just wanna chill.

[Sunseeker]

I mean people still talk about medical chips being a bad thing because "I don't want the guvment to track meeee!" when they have their little tracking device by their side 24/7 already.

People are idiots. If the Government made a device capable of alerting the smartest bestest most trained medical professionals come to their rescue at a moments notice, they've NEVER buy it. But if Apple made the "iKnowWhereYouAre" it'd be the hottest product on the market.

[Grimbold21]

Why would you take into consideration what a religious group has to say?

[Deleted]

Sometimes i have the impression some people did not really get that Gattaca is meant as a dystopia.

[Techno-Druid]

Sometimes i have the impression some people did not really get that Gattaca is meant as a dystopia.

I think most people are aware of that (hopefully). That doesn't stop us from looking at the technology's application. Besides, in a world where gene editing was widespread and mainstream, it would most likely be applicable to already existing humans.

[Calfredd]

Why would you take into consideration what a religious group has to say?

Because while the amount of people who are religious (not spiritual but actually go to church and such) are declining, you still have doctors, lawyers, construction workers, teachers, and so on who are religious and you kind of still need those people to do their job.

[Grimbold21]

Because while the amount of people who are religious (not spiritual but actually go to church and such) are declining, you still have doctors, lawyers, construction workers, teachers, and so on who are religious and you kind of still need those people to do their job.

So what? They would refuse to carry out their jobs on the grounds that their religious input, which is invalid from the get, is being ignored?

[truckboattruck]

if you talk about this in an honest fashion youll be infracted for "racism"

you can't censor reality though no matter how sad it makes the feelers