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  1. #1

    BM Hunters! Are we viable now?

    PvP are we viable i hear we got lots of nerfs that makes it pretty useless in Arena but how is it really and how are we in BGS?

    PvE are we viable i hear MM takes over BM by a good margin , How are we in PvE now?

    Just a couple questions and some info please on how BM is thanks!

  2. #2
    If you have to ask "if we're viable", any content you will be doing your class/spec will be viable for. Not a dig at you personally, just an overall statement to anyone who asks that - same goes for people asking what spec is best.

  3. #3
    They are both close but i prefer BM more. All of its attacks are insta cast so it makes dealing with movement from mechanics or chain pulling ez mode while MM has to cast.

  4. #4
    BM was relevant more so last tier than it is now comparatively in terms of dps. MM in simd dps with equal t20 gears etc is anywhere from 100kto200k more dps than BM

  5. #5
    For PvE, marksman is better than BM if you can execute it well. Especially on cleave and somewhat bursty AoE fights.
    BM has a few things going for it that makes it gain quite a bit of ground if you're not very good at MM and/or have to move a lot during a fight and/or are still learning the fights.

    So if you're more casual both MM and BM are solid choices, play what you prefer.
    If you're more hardcore, go with MM. And if you're progressing you can always play BM while you gear up for MM as that will overtake BM once you get some gear and know the fights well (as you can easily predict movement and burst moments making it easier for you to not waste much dps on that).

    As for PvP I'm not really sure. A while back MM was really good, but I think it got nerfed again (or the meta just shifted some what).
    A lot of hunters are still survival.
    I think as far as BM goes, it's not a very good spec for arena's (unless you're lower rated) but I figure it can do alright in the more casual pvp forms.

  6. #6
    What do you raid?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Nythiz View Post
    For PvE, marksman is better than BM if you can execute it well. Especially on cleave and somewhat bursty AoE fights.
    BM has a few things going for it that makes it gain quite a bit of ground if you're not very good at MM and/or have to move a lot during a fight and/or are still learning the fights.

    So if you're more casual both MM and BM are solid choices, play what you prefer.
    If you're more hardcore, go with MM. And if you're progressing you can always play BM while you gear up for MM as that will overtake BM once you get some gear and know the fights well (as you can easily predict movement and burst moments making it easier for you to not waste much dps on that).

    As for PvP I'm not really sure. A while back MM was really good, but I think it got nerfed again (or the meta just shifted some what).
    A lot of hunters are still survival.
    I think as far as BM goes, it's not a very good spec for arena's (unless you're lower rated) but I figure it can do alright in the more casual pvp forms.
    TBH almost all hunters went BM for progression because the real DPS difference in sims doesn't start untill 925-930.... the gap goes from like 70k at 925 to like 170k at 935 BIS....

    Which is part of why Method ran 3x BM hunters for the first 9 bosses... then 3 MM for the Avatar reclear and KJ.... (KJ is also due to the amazing execute)
    Moshots Main Hunter
    mohots alt/former main Moonkin

  8. #8
    Isnt BM near bottom of the pack in dps?

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#dataset=100
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
    Anyway stop being such an ass fucktard.
    Quote Originally Posted by oblivium666 View Post
    Would you kindly go fuck yourself?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by sceptre View Post
    PvP are we viable i hear we got lots of nerfs that makes it pretty useless in Arena but how is it really and how are we in BGS?

    PvE are we viable i hear MM takes over BM by a good margin , How are we in PvE now?

    Just a couple questions and some info please on how BM is thanks!
    Here is as honest as a response to the PvE question that anyone can give you currently.

    MM is the superior spec in terms of dps and with a decent bit of practice it is very possible to play MM at a level high enough to surpass the dps of BM.

    Now not trying to bash you or anyone else I have always hated this question about any spec in the game......"is "x"viable?

    Here is the truth for just about 99.9% of all raiders in this game......the number of wipes that are caused by the spec of anyone in your raid is most likely 0. You know what is viable for just about everyone raiding outside of the top 20 in the world? Players who understand mechanics and are able to reduce avoidable damage and who play proactively during encounters. There may come a day when you reach the pantheon of raiding where the spec you play has some bearing on your success level however for just about any guild outside of say the top 20 World if you played any of the hunter specs at a high level and understood mechanics and played an overall knowledgeable and proactive game in your raid team you would be a huge asset regardless of your class and or spec. ScrubBusters the literal world 6th guild used 3 BM hunter on KJ progress and kill.

    BM is a fine spec and capable of handling any raid encounter in ToS. Could MM do more dps on just about all of them? Sure but asking if something is viable and what does more damage is a completely different question. You could play any spec in the game right now and do just fine if at your core you were a fantastic player.

    Do you think its strange that top guilds have people playing different characters all the time? That is because the char they are on is irrelevant it is a tool for a job. The reason they are the best is not a spec they can play they could probably play them all at a very high progression level. They are the best at recognizing mechanics mastering them and progression on the hardest content with the least amount of gear.

    Just ask yourself this question and be completely honest.....If no one in your raid ever made a mechanical mistake with an ability or a soak or a cd etc......what World rank would you be regardless of your class/spec?

  10. #10
    Field Marshal Kulspruta's Avatar
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    PVP, no idea since I haven't done any at all in Legion. PVE I would say BM is viable till you get the right legendaries for MM, since BM is a bit more forgiving with different legendaries.
    Last edited by Kulspruta; 2017-08-07 at 08:13 AM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Moshots View Post
    TBH almost all hunters went BM for progression because the real DPS difference in sims doesn't start untill 925-930.... the gap goes from like 70k at 925 to like 170k at 935 BIS....

    Which is part of why Method ran 3x BM hunters for the first 9 bosses... then 3 MM for the Avatar reclear and KJ.... (KJ is also due to the amazing execute)
    ?? They did not run x3 BM for the first 9 bosses?

    Goroth, Demonic, Sisters, Maiden were 2x BM, 1x MM,
    Harj was 1x MM
    Desolate and Mistress were 1x BM 1x MM
    Avatar was x3 BM, but MM is just as good,
    KJ was MMx3

    They went with their comfort picks for the faceroll bosses, because they'll mechanically play better with those. Nnoggah and Roger heavily prefer BM, Gingi prefers MM. You can't look at what they picked and go "that's the best"

    Almost all hunters going BM for prog is a load of BS. Majority were MM. Also implying that the top hunters weren't already 925? o k. Plus the dps difference was there as soon as you had tier.

    You clearly don't really know what you're talking about. MM is significantly better than BM if you can play it at peak, but BM is much easier to play at peak.

    If you can't handle movement, BM will also win.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Emerald Archer View Post
    ?? They did not run x3 BM for the first 9 bosses?

    Goroth, Demonic, Sisters, Maiden were 2x BM, 1x MM,
    Harj was 1x MM
    Desolate and Mistress were 1x BM 1x MM
    Avatar was x3 BM, but MM is just as good,
    KJ was MMx3

    They went with their comfort picks for the faceroll bosses, because they'll mechanically play better with those. Nnoggah and Roger heavily prefer BM, Gingi prefers MM. You can't look at what they picked and go "that's the best"

    Almost all hunters going BM for prog is a load of BS. Majority were MM. Also implying that the top hunters weren't already 925? o k. Plus the dps difference was there as soon as you had tier.

    You clearly don't really know what you're talking about. MM is significantly better than BM if you can play it at peak, but BM is much easier to play at peak.

    If you can't handle movement, BM will also win.
    In progression mm isn't as reliable for bosses like avatar, or maiden with the strats method used, considering movement.
    I don't think it was down to them choosing their 'comfort pick'. This is the world 1st guild..
    Scrubusters, kj alliance no.1, used 3 bm hunters. BM is equally as viable at all bosses for all levels of raiding. Yes mm sims higher if played well with good rng. But don't give someone who likely isn't a top mythic raider advice based on watching 1 kill video and a few rank 1 passes.

  13. #13
    PVP: AS A CLASS, Hunter is: Rock bottom in 3's, second from the bottom in 2's, 8 out of 12 in RBG's, so I'm thinking not viable

    See for yourself: http://www.arenamate.net/?region=&re...r=3v3&faction=

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Westey View Post
    In progression mm isn't as reliable for bosses like avatar, or maiden with the strats method used, considering movement.
    I don't think it was down to them choosing their 'comfort pick'. This is the world 1st guild..
    Scrubusters, kj alliance no.1, used 3 bm hunters. BM is equally as viable at all bosses for all levels of raiding. Yes mm sims higher if played well with good rng. But don't give someone who likely isn't a top mythic raider advice based on watching 1 kill video and a few rank 1 passes.
    Methods Maiden strat was terrible, why would you judge how a spec performs on the wrong strat? And on Avatar, they went BM, but other guilds proved MM could do the exact same thing, and pull better dps.

    And yes, it really is them choosing their comfort pick, otherwise why do you think 1 chose mm and 2 chose bm? Both MM and BM are viable and strong ofc, but with bosses where dmg didn't matter, why wouldn't you pick your comfort pick, if you could make bm do nearly as much dmg? For them specifically, it was whichever spec they wanted to play, and could perform all-round better on.

    "Yes mm sims higher if played well with good rng" remove the rng bs in there, BM has rng as well, and you don't need good rng for mm to win. It's like 200k ahead with full bis.

    You're giving someone who isn't a top tier raider, advice based on you checking wowprog to see what specs people played. That is a terrible terrible way to give advice, because you don't know why they made those decisions.

    What matters is, MM played at peak, will do more damage and is the better choice on all bosses. BUT most people can't play MM at peak, or very well, BM will start to win out. Or if you don't have high movement skill, BM will also win out. That is the advice you give, not some stupid "oh lul method people on their first kill of some bosses, played bm on some fights"

    If you can play MM very well, and can handle movement very well, MM will blow BM out of the water. But not many people can perform, which is what makes BM more viable for lower level guilds.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Iwa Washi View Post
    PVP: AS A CLASS, Hunter is: Rock bottom in 3's, second from the bottom in 2's, 8 out of 12 in RBG's, so I'm thinking not viable

    See for yourself: http://www.arenamate.net/?region=&re...r=3v3&faction=
    In PvP, hunter isn't great, but they're definitely more than viable for RBGS, why are you looking at all rating levels?

  15. #15
    BM is fine for PvE, even for Mythic progression. MM has a significantly higher ceiling, especially once AoE comes into the picture, but BM is easy to play and is still decent at its role of boss damage and priority target burst.
    At the level the majority of us are playing at, BM performs well enough that you won't hamper your raid by simply existing, provided you perform well as BM.

    If you're awfully concerned with playing the best spec, then play MM and don't look back. It is better than BM in Tomb, it's that simple. But we need to remove the ridiculous idée fixe that BM is horrible for Mythic ToS and should be avoided at all costs. That is simply not correct, even for the last 4 bosses in the instance.

  16. #16
    Utter trash in PvP after the nerfs, you literally have no damage. Kill command hits about 1.5x hard as any other classes resource generator.

    BM is fine for raiding, but don't expect to top the meters if you've got other competent DPS in the raid.

  17. #17
    What does "Viable" even mean? Bm can do enough dps to kill raid bosses on mythic and basically do every mechanic on every fight that a dps can do. Many specs can do more damage, but the mobility of BM while still maintaining "viable" numbers is the envy of every other dps.

  18. #18
    Mechagnome khazlol's Avatar
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    think it's safe to assume changes are comming. i don't think blizzle wants 4p+2p to be the meta for any spec/class

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Emerald Archer View Post
    ?? They did not run x3 BM for the first 9 bosses?


    KJ was MMx3

    They went with their comfort picks for the faceroll bosses, because they'll mechanically play better with those. Nnoggah and Roger heavily prefer BM, Gingi prefers MM. You can't look at what they picked and go "that's the best"

    Almost all hunters going BM for prog is a load of BS. Majority were MM. Also implying that the top hunters weren't already 925? o k. Plus the dps difference was there as soon as you had tier.

    You clearly don't really know what you're talking about. MM is significantly better than BM if you can play it at peak, but BM is much easier to play at peak.

    If you can't handle movement, BM will also win.
    and MM falls off like a car driving off a cliff when you have to constantly move/learning mechanics

    "Avatar was x3 BM, but MM is just as good"

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#boss=2038 55 BM hunters 8 MM hunters for logged avatar kills...


    MM is a amazing spec with BIS gear. and when it can tunnel/reclears when everyone can do their job easily... Its like demo warlock.. Demo is #1 spec on goroth #1 boss damage warlock spec on Mistress #1 Overall spec on Sisters... and DRUM ROLL 0 Fallen avatar/KJ kills as Demo...... Why because the spec is a fucking rock and you have to stand still to do anything... Avatar is the most movement heavy fight in the entire tier. which is why almost every guild runs BM hunters over MM on progression... But please continue to tell the 7/9M with 200 Avatar pulls and will probably be 8/9M within 7 days why MM is better on avatar.....
    Last edited by Moshots; 2017-08-07 at 01:59 PM.
    Moshots Main Hunter
    mohots alt/former main Moonkin

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by khazlol View Post
    think it's safe to assume changes are comming. i don't think blizzle wants 4p+2p to be the meta for any spec/class
    Its been over month like this. Its not happening, to many huntards thinking bm dps is "fine". There will be no changes. I am expecting 7.3 things to get worst...it seems every one has forgotten BM doesn't scale well. Its been like that since WOTLK. BM starting out decent but by the end of the xpac its shit.

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