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  1. #21
    There are more BM parses than MM parses. If they weren't "viable" they wouldn't be taken.

    MM does more on AoE. If your raid is struggling with adds then spec into it to help out more. Other than that, it matters not a jot. It's whichever you prefer.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Banard View Post
    Its been over month like this. Its not happening, to many huntards thinking bm dps is "fine". There will be no changes. I am expecting 7.3 things to get worst...it seems every one has forgotten BM doesn't scale well. Its been like that since WOTLK. BM starting out decent but by the end of the xpac its shit.
    BM is already receiving a 3% buff to most abilities according to patch notes for 7.3 PTR.

    BM dps is lower than we would like, however it's definitely within the realms of acceptable considering all the other benefits of BM we get.

  3. #23
    Scarab Lord Myz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moshots View Post
    and MM falls off like a car driving off a cliff when you have to constantly move/learning mechanics

    "Avatar was x3 BM, but MM is just as good"

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#boss=2038 55 BM hunters 8 MM hunters for logged avatar kills...


    MM is a amazing spec with BIS gear. and when it can tunnel/reclears when everyone can do their job easily... Its like demo warlock.. Demo is #1 spec on goroth #1 boss damage warlock spec on Mistress #1 Overall spec on Sisters... and DRUM ROLL 0 Fallen avatar/KJ kills as Demo...... Why because the spec is a fucking rock and you have to stand still to do anything... Avatar is the most movement heavy fight in the entire tier. which is why almost every guild runs BM hunters over MM on progression... But please continue to tell the 7/9M with 200 Avatar pulls and will probably be 8/9M within 7 days why MM is better on avatar.....
    Don't forget that a lot of guilds still do private logs. It won't skew the distribution that much, but it is reality.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Moshots View Post
    and MM falls off like a car driving off a cliff when you have to constantly move/learning mechanics

    "Avatar was x3 BM, but MM is just as good"

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#boss=2038 55 BM hunters 8 MM hunters for logged avatar kills...


    MM is a amazing spec with BIS gear. and when it can tunnel/reclears when everyone can do their job easily... Its like demo warlock.. Demo is #1 spec on goroth #1 boss damage warlock spec on Mistress #1 Overall spec on Sisters... and DRUM ROLL 0 Fallen avatar/KJ kills as Demo...... Why because the spec is a fucking rock and you have to stand still to do anything... Avatar is the most movement heavy fight in the entire tier. which is why almost every guild runs BM hunters over MM on progression... But please continue to tell the 7/9M with 200 Avatar pulls and will probably be 8/9M within 7 days why MM is better on avatar.....
    You can literally see on that, MM does more damage. If you can handle the movement, (you need extremely good movement management) it will do more damage.

    You seem to think MM is extremely immobile. That is not the case, it's just very difficult to manage the mobility.

    But yeah, ALMOST every guild did run a BM hunter over an MM hunter on Avatar, but those that went MM, and are damn good, played better than BMs did. It 100% comes down to how good you are.

    I don't know how you can't see that MM, if you have the skillset, is better, when literally what you linked, showed that it is.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Emerald Archer View Post
    ?? They did not run x3 BM for the first 9 bosses?

    Goroth, Demonic, Sisters, Maiden were 2x BM, 1x MM,
    Harj was 1x MM
    Desolate and Mistress were 1x BM 1x MM
    Avatar was x3 BM, but MM is just as good,
    KJ was MMx3

    They went with their comfort picks for the faceroll bosses, because they'll mechanically play better with those. Nnoggah and Roger heavily prefer BM, Gingi prefers MM. You can't look at what they picked and go "that's the best"

    Almost all hunters going BM for prog is a load of BS. Majority were MM. Also implying that the top hunters weren't already 925? o k. Plus the dps difference was there as soon as you had tier.

    You clearly don't really know what you're talking about. MM is significantly better than BM if you can play it at peak, but BM is much easier to play at peak.

    If you can't handle movement, BM will also win.
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#dataset=95

    20k MM hunters, 29k BM hunters. Yes there are not only BM, but it's 60% BM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by gushDH View Post
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#dataset=95

    20k MM hunters, 29k BM hunters. Yes there are not only BM, but it's 60% BM.
    That doesn't make it the right choice? Nice logic. BM is easy, most players are bad, therefore most players play BM.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Emerald Archer View Post
    That doesn't make it the right choice? Nice logic. BM is easy, most players are bad, therefore most players play BM.
    I'm just stating the fact because you said that majority is MM which is wrong.

    Of course MM can do more dps at peak, we can see that at warcraftlogs as well. There isn't any argument for or against that, it's a fact.

  8. #28
    BM for progression, MM for farm.

    Which one is better? Whelp depends on what you're doing of course, like anything else.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by gushDH View Post
    I'm just stating the fact because you said that majority is MM which is wrong.

    Of course MM can do more dps at peak, we can see that at warcraftlogs as well. There isn't any argument for or against that, it's a fact.
    I was assuming that he meant good players, not all. Because who tf cares about your average pleb when discussing which spec is better.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    BM for progression, MM for farm.

    Which one is better? Whelp depends on what you're doing of course, like anything else.
    Wrong, MM is better for progression, if you're good at it, and movement management. If not, yeah use BM, it's a good crutch.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Emerald Archer View Post
    Wrong, MM is better for progression, if you're good at it, and movement management. If not, yeah use BM, it's a good crutch.
    Depends entirely on the encounter I guess. Some will favour each of the specs

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    Depends entirely on the encounter I guess. Some will favour each of the specs
    For sure, but in ToS, the only fight where that's the case, is Avatar, but MM wins if you have excellent (EXCELLENT) movement management.

  12. #32
    Bit of luck sprinkled in there too I think (like not being targeted by blades)

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    Bit of luck sprinkled in there too I think (like not being targeted by blades)
    Nah even with blades, you just disengage. Really not a big deal.

  14. #34
    How do you disengage a blade and not interrupt a cast?

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Emerald Archer View Post
    You can literally see on that, MM does more damage. If you can handle the movement, (you need extremely good movement management) it will do more damage.
    Actually, the max dps for both specs is basically identical in those statistics, BM just has a bit lower average dps. And it's going to be subject to strat as well. One of our MM hunters who absolutely loathes BM has swapped to it for that fight (all 3 hunters playing BM now) because of how we organize our beam soaks plus all the other mandatory movement. You keep going about about "movement management being excellent" but you can only do that up to a certain point on fights like this when mechanics come at such a quick pace.

    But it's one fight at any rate, so nowhere am I saying you're wrong. It's just amusing as fuck to see you feel compelled to come in to every thread that poses a question of "is BM viable" to quash any potential reason for saying "yeah, it actually is". I've raided alongside 2 MM hunters this entire tier so far, and at no point on any fights have I felt like any kind of burden on the raid team. Sure, they tend to pass me on overall damage but I'm always competitive on the things I'm suited for: boss damage and priority burst. And before you even try to bring up about the level of players I'm with, it's US top 40 currently (US top 20 in NH). So, not exactly scrubs at any rate.
    Last edited by Mavick; 2017-08-07 at 05:00 PM.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    How do you disengage a blade and not interrupt a cast?
    Interrupting a single cast rarely isn't a big deal.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mavick View Post
    Actually, the max dps for both specs is basically identical in those statistics, BM just has a bit lower average dps. And it's going to be subject to strat as well. One of our MM hunters who absolutely loathes BM has swapped to it for that fight (all 3 hunters playing BM now) because of how we organize our beam soaks plus all the other mandatory movement. You keep going about about "movement management being excellent" but you can only do that up to a certain point on fights like this when mechanics come at such a quick pace.

    But it's one fight at any rate, so nowhere am I saying you're wrong. It's just amusing as fuck to see you feel compelled to come in to every thread that poses a question of "is BM viable" to quash any potential reason for saying "yeah, it actually is". I've raided alongside 2 MM hunters this entire tier so far, and at no point on any fights have I felt like any kind of burden on the raid team. Sure, they tend to pass me on overall damage but I'm always competitive on the things I'm suited for: boss damage and priority burst. And before you even try to bring up about the level of players I'm with, it's US top 40 currently (US top 20 in NH). So, not exactly scrubs at any rate.
    I am not at all saying BM isn't viable, it is extremely viable, I am saying that it isn't the best, if you were min-maxing. People stating "BM is the best for progression" (out of the 2 hunter specs) is 100% wrong. But it is most definitely still viable, and a strong progression spec.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Emerald Archer View Post
    Interrupting a single cast rarely isn't a big deal.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I am not at all saying BM isn't viable, it is extremely viable, I am saying that it isn't the best, if you were min-maxing. People stating "BM is the best for progression" (out of the 2 hunter specs) is 100% wrong. But it is most definitely still viable, and a strong progression spec.
    what about unbound chaos? Touch of sargeras?

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    what about unbound chaos? Touch of sargeras?
    Ofc you're moving for those? I think you aren't aware of how far ahead MM is on dps, compared to BM. On a stand still fight, it isn't close. The more movement you add, the closer it gets, Avatar is the closest, but with perfect play, MM just does more damage. Logs prove that, aswell as what some high level raiders have stated on hunter disc.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Emerald Archer View Post
    For sure, but in ToS, the only fight where that's the case, is Avatar, but MM wins if you have excellent (EXCELLENT) movement management.
    You also ignore what strat the guilds with MM hunters ran..

    Did they run 5 rogues and no one every have to soak??? If your running 5 rogues then MM probably>BM when you can ignore soaking thats 5 less times (10-20 seconds of movement overall) over the fight you have to move... There is alot more to factor.


    In the end though MM is fine being close to the top spec because of the skill+movement penalty much like Demo warlock.....
    BM however needs a slight buff and were getting it (4% overall buff on PTR right now)
    Last edited by Moshots; 2017-08-07 at 07:22 PM.
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  20. #40
    Legendary! Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    what about unbound chaos? Touch of sargeras?
    If Warlocks, Mages, Healers, etc can do it why should it be so hard for MM? You really forget that every other ranged class does it perfectly fine. The damage of the abilities is higher to compensate.
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