1. #1
    Deleted

    What's wrong with Ferals in BGs?

    I just can't believe it: whenever i fight a Feral druid in random BG they never use Bear form and very rarely they ss to Travel form! Are all feral players complete noobs? I take them below 50% health with my warrior or rogue and they still insist to fight in their squishy cat form and they die in cat form, just because they don't ss to bear and tank dmg for a while or Travel and run away, heal to full ...
    Can someone enlighten me why Ferals don't use Bear form in PvP? Am i missing something? Resto druids just ss to bear when needed and they are immortal for a while, even Moonkins use it when needed, but ferals, nope, they would rather die in cat form?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu View Post
    I just can't believe it: whenever i fight a Feral druid in random BG they never use Bear form and very rarely they ss to Travel form! Are all feral players complete noobs? I take them below 50% health with my warrior or rogue and they still insist to fight in their squishy cat form and they die in cat form, just because they don't ss to bear and tank dmg for a while or Travel and run away, heal to full ...
    Can someone enlighten me why Ferals don't use Bear form in PvP? Am i missing something? Resto druids just ss to bear when needed and they are immortal for a while, even Moonkins use it when needed, but ferals, nope, they would rather die in cat form?
    This is one of those situations, where something happens to someone, so they assume that's the case for everyone and everything.

    I have ran into plenty of great feral druids, who kite, go bear form etc. You have ran into a few ferals who don't. It's almost like there's good and bad players of every spec in this game.

  3. #3
    Fight them in 2500+ arenas if you want a challenge instead of random BG's where all skill levels can join.

  4. #4
    I am an offensive and I find this Feral.

  5. #5
    Basically Resto Druids don't need to kill you (they can't) so they just try to delay the inevitable (and they've usually got Guardian Affinity which makes Bear Form better, Ferals normally don't), whereas a Feral will actually have to try to kill you to "win".

    In a Xv1 with no possible escape going Bear is only going to make you go down a tiny bit slower while doing absolutely no damage as Feral, it's entirely understandable they stay Cat Form.

    In a true 1v1 what they should do is bleed + root and heal, but that too is very rare (and given that bgs are generally not 1v1's it is understandable).

    Going Bear Form or Travel Forming if you don't have a healer / an actual escape route is pretty much useless. But if you have a healer or an actual way to escape if you can't win the fight you should definitely go Bear / Travel respectively.

  6. #6
    ^ Very sensible post, summed it up nicely.

  7. #7
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by RelaZ View Post

    In a Xv1 with no possible escape going Bear is only going to make you go down a tiny bit slower while doing absolutely no damage as Feral, it's entirely understandable they stay Cat Form.
    Going down a tiny bit slower? Are we playing the same game? Going Bear makes you almost immortal for a while. Also the damage part of the bear is not that bad at all: you can take Tooth and Claw PvP Talent and get 15% additional health + 30% more dmg while in bear form, so don't tell me that dmg in bear is next to non existent
    I have been fighting many restos and even moonkins, when they pop Bear form: that makes them really hard to kill. It's not just a 2 or 3 seconds added to their survivability, it is more like 20 - 30 seconds added to their survivability vs more than one opponent.
    So i really don't get it why do you think that feral Bear form is weaker than Resto/Moonkin Bear Form?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by RelaZ View Post
    Going Bear Form or Travel Forming if you don't have a healer / an actual escape route is pretty much useless. But if you have a healer or an actual way to escape if you can't win the fight you should definitely go Bear / Travel respectively.
    Wut. Going Bear and Travel Form require neither a Healer or an escape to be viable options. When I'm on my Feral I use both often in combat Due to them being part of my kit and allowing great versatility in what I can do in fights.

    literally 95% of the time I go Travel form isn't because I am trying to escape, it is for the mobility I can use to my advantage in combat.

    I think you are literally the type of person OP is talking about in the first post.

  9. #9
    You misunderstand. He's saying that when you're running, going bear or travel form "just to try and survive" are pointless if you don't have an actual escape possible. Not that using bear form in combat is bad in general. Try to understand what he means before you insult, please.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu View Post
    Going down a tiny bit slower? Are we playing the same game? Going Bear makes you almost immortal for a while. Also the damage part of the bear is not that bad at all: you can take Tooth and Claw PvP Talent and get 15% additional health + 30% more dmg while in bear form, so don't tell me that dmg in bear is next to non existent
    I have been fighting many restos and even moonkins, when they pop Bear form: that makes them really hard to kill. It's not just a 2 or 3 seconds added to their survivability, it is more like 20 - 30 seconds added to their survivability vs more than one opponent.
    So i really don't get it why do you think that feral Bear form is weaker than Resto/Moonkin Bear Form?
    Ferals generally don't play with Guardian Affinity which grants Frenzied Regen - that's the reason Restos/Moonkins are hard to kill (also resto's have hots).

    Additionally if I'm facing a Melee why would you possibly want to go Tooth and Claw instead of Thorns? Especially Rogues. Survive a bit longer - and die pretty much guaranteed (because I sat bear and did 0 damage while still losing health), or pick an ability that does 30% of your total damage when picked vs melee. Hard choice. Oh, also a 30% Bear damage increase from 0 is still 0.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Dracula View Post
    Wut. Going Bear and Travel Form require neither a Healer or an escape to be viable options. When I'm on my Feral I use both often in combat Due to them being part of my kit and allowing great versatility in what I can do in fights.

    literally 95% of the time I go Travel form isn't because I am trying to escape, it is for the mobility I can use to my advantage in combat.

    I think you are literally the type of person OP is talking about in the first post.
    Yeah man, should really listen to the advice of the average 0 exp "I HATE ARENA" no skill player who only plays BGs, I'm sure you know exactly how to play your spec to skillcap

    No, I'm "literally" the type of person that knows exactly how to play Feral.

    If you're actively sitting Travel Form to kite in a fight against a single melee instead of doing bleed->root->heal->stealth->stun rinse repeat then you're doing it wrong.

    Travel Form in 1v1 combat should pretty much only only be used for Travel Form -> Wild Charge to get behind LoS so you can heals of.

    The only other proper use of Travel Form is to escape (either to let your healers heal you in the case of an XvX, or just to abandon the fight).

    Otherwise all you're doing is delaying - doing only bleed damage while taking tons of damage.

    But why do I even bother discussing with you, I already know you don't know anything about how to play this game well.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by RelaZ View Post
    The only other proper use of Travel Form is to escape (either to let your healers heal you in the case of an XvX, or just to abandon the fight).

    Otherwise all you're doing is delaying - doing only bleed damage while taking tons of damage.

    But why do I even bother discussing with you, I already know you don't know anything about how to play this game well.
    The fact you are still saying you never use Travel form for anything other than running away to a healer or escaping a fight is a number 1 indicator that you are fucking horrible and you are right, we don't need to discuss things anymore, you've already shown you aren't just bad, but you think you are actually not bad.

    I beat you are the type of person who sits in CC instead of just shapeshifting out of it easily.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Dracula View Post
    The fact you are still saying you never use Travel form for anything other than running away to a healer or escaping a fight is a number 1 indicator that you are fucking horrible and you are right, we don't need to discuss things anymore, you've already shown you aren't just bad, but you think you are actually not bad.

    I beat you are the type of person who sits in CC instead of just shapeshifting out of it easily.
    Yeah that's not what I actually said though, maybe you should work on your reading comprehension and then re-read my posts. I specifically mentioned 1v1 combat versus melee, but sure - you keep running around using Travel Form while getting pummeled by melee's in 1v1's, go right ahead.

  13. #13
    probably because 99% of ferals are bad or lazy players?

    you've got bear/resto/moonkin 3 fucking amazing top notch raid specs, and m+ specs etc, who in their right mind is playing feral? very very few people.

  14. #14
    It's really not just ferals. I am still surprised after all these years how incredibly easy it is to get top damage, healing or killing blows in random BG. The majority of people are just bad or average and that is the cold hard truth. At low levels the situation is even worse. Sometimes I can't do anything but just stop and laugh at people slowly turning and backpeddling only to spend 4 globals on 2 instant casts.

  15. #15
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    It's really not just ferals. I am still surprised after all these years how incredibly easy it is to get top damage, healing or killing blows in random BG. The majority of people are just bad or average and that is the cold hard truth. At low levels the situation is even worse. Sometimes I can't do anything but just stop and laugh at people slowly turning and backpeddling only to spend 4 globals on 2 instant casts.
    Last night I ran some randoms on a newly dinged 110 and I also was amazed at how little effort people actually put into playing.

    Yes, some people are simply no good but for many it's just that they arent even really trying.
    How many times do you see people fight in corners of a BG map that has zero effect on the objectives? Or people that just run aroun mounted? Or people that are afraid to die for some reason in pvp?

    I always top damage in BG's while playing the objectives. Yes it helps I play certain clases but it's also because i put in maximum effort. It's frustrating that others usually are not

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Deruyter View Post
    Last night I ran some randoms on a newly dinged 110 and I also was amazed at how little effort people actually put into playing.

    Yes, some people are simply no good but for many it's just that they arent even really trying.
    How many times do you see people fight in corners of a BG map that has zero effect on the objectives? Or people that just run aroun mounted? Or people that are afraid to die for some reason in pvp?

    I always top damage in BG's while playing the objectives. Yes it helps I play certain clases but it's also because i put in maximum effort. It's frustrating that others usually are not
    Brawls and Prestige make PvP fairly worthwhile for PvE players with no idea how to play. And PvP is a very harsh environment to facilitate learning since people are forced to face opponents at a variety of skill levels with very little feedback on their performance from the game itself so they just stay bad.

  17. #17
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Brawls and Prestige make PvP fairly worthwhile for PvE players with no idea how to play. And PvP is a very harsh environment to facilitate learning since people are forced to face opponents at a variety of skill levels with very little feedback on their performance from the game itself so they just stay bad.
    You're right, it seems that Brawls and weekly pvp quests attract an influx of PvE players that are used to just pushing their dragon slaying rotation and nothing else.

    Maybe they are also the ones struggling with the idea you have to go bear form to survive even though you play dps in pvp,s ince they never have to in PvE.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Deruyter View Post
    Maybe they are also the ones struggling with the idea you have to go bear form to survive even though you play dps in pvp,s ince they never have to in PvE.
    Bad ferals never have to go bear in PvE. Good ferals still go bear when they have to soak damage in PvE.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by RelaZ View Post
    Ferals generally don't play with Guardian Affinity which grants Frenzied Regen - that's the reason Restos/Moonkins are hard to kill (also resto's have hots).

    Additionally if I'm facing a Melee why would you possibly want to go Tooth and Claw instead of Thorns? Especially Rogues. Survive a bit longer - and die pretty much guaranteed (because I sat bear and did 0 damage while still losing health), or pick an ability that does 30% of your total damage when picked vs melee. Hard choice. Oh, also a 30% Bear damage increase from 0 is still 0.

    Yeah man, should really listen to the advice of the average 0 exp "I HATE ARENA" no skill player who only plays BGs, I'm sure you know exactly how to play your spec to skillcap

    No, I'm "literally" the type of person that knows exactly how to play Feral.

    If you're actively sitting Travel Form to kite in a fight against a single melee instead of doing bleed->root->heal->stealth->stun rinse repeat then you're doing it wrong.

    Travel Form in 1v1 combat should pretty much only only be used for Travel Form -> Wild Charge to get behind LoS so you can heals of.

    The only other proper use of Travel Form is to escape (either to let your healers heal you in the case of an XvX, or just to abandon the fight).

    Otherwise all you're doing is delaying - doing only bleed damage while taking tons of damage.

    But why do I even bother discussing with you, I already know you don't know anything about how to play this game well.
    The increased damage of Tooth and Claw and claw applies to your bleeds / moonfire.

    As for the question, it really depends on the situation, mostly staying in bear form will increase the time you survive but also heavily reduce your damage output. In a one on one BG situation it may not make a lot of sense.

    This also depends a lot on the build you are running. If you are running the classic arena build with jagged wounds and bloody talons your damage will be reduced by a lot if you stop hitting the target and it is mostly not worth the trade, unless there are allies nearby or if there is hope that you can get a re-stealth (which is quite hard when there are no pillars, since everyone now has 4538984 charges and a 30s duration dot).

    If you are playing with some alternative build such as brutal slash, guardian affinity and tooth and claw, then it may make sense, since you are mainly waiting for the TF + brutal slash combo to come out of cooldown, plus the bleeds will deal extra damage.
    I may not be an overachiever, but my Druid is richer than half of Venezuela.

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