Thread: Why?

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  1. #21
    Old God FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anduin Menethil View Post
    Yeah and then they contacted him in the AU and made him invade Azeroth. All of a sudden he wasn't selfish anymore and the perfect general of the Legion.
    Because this is a different guldan, one from a different realm and timeline
    and hey he never betrayed them, he did think about it again in the tomb of sargeras, but he overall came to thought and stuck with the legion till his dying breath.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigxy the Lemming View Post

    but they cant summon spiders and posion...
    also the demon yes was summoned, but it killed the warlock, and they would simply command them from the spirit realm until the demon died...
    it was not "i summon a demon at my side and it obeys" it was "i give my life to summon a demon, then i from the spirit realm direct it where to go"
    Quote Originally Posted by Domoda View Post
    I was a "Warlock main" In vanilla and i think soulshards disappeared upon logging out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    Me too!

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Nobody said Warlords made a great deal of sense.

    Plus the audio drama also showed that AU Gul'dan was actually loyal in large part because he came to know of his MU counterpart's fate. KJ made sure to inform him of the price of betrayal.

    My own question is, where be these demons? There's no demon trash in the tomb apart from those at the entrance which are recent arrivals. Everything deeper in the raid is Naga stooges, ghost elves (never enough of those apparently), and malfunctioning Titan constructs.
    shredded by illidan and maiev? i dont rememeber exactly the mission, but im pretty sure that you kill something inside the tomb

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Nobody said Warlords made a great deal of sense.

    Plus the audio drama also showed that AU Gul'dan was actually loyal in large part because he came to know of his MU counterpart's fate. KJ made sure to inform him of the price of betrayal.

    My own question is, where be these demons? There's no demon trash in the tomb apart from those at the entrance which are recent arrivals. Everything deeper in the raid is Naga stooges, ghost elves (never enough of those apparently), and malfunctioning Titan constructs.
    The Tomb should be swarming with demons but blizzard left them out. ToS literally has more Murlocs than demons in it, for the same reason it's a virtually pristine elven temple instead of a twisted ruin, because Blizzard didn't want it to feel too similar to Antorus or overdo the demons.

    Basically it's an unofficial retcon - gameplay over lore. They deemed it more important to have variation for variation's sake instead of consistency and lore.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    My own question is, where be these demons? There's no demon trash in the tomb apart from those at the entrance which are recent arrivals. Everything deeper in the raid is Naga stooges, ghost elves (never enough of those apparently), and malfunctioning Titan constructs.
    Because they fucked up ToS.

    In TfT it was portrayed pretty fittingly, ancient temple that got ruined by spending a fuck ton of time under water, filled with demons.

    In WoW, they pretty much ignored the fact that the Tomb, even the entire Broken Shore, spent a lot of time underwater.

    The only part that sort of stayed true to the Warcraft 3 version are the Runes left by Gul'dan, his corpse (which most people won't even find because you skip the area where it's located) and the ruined naga section.

    It's offtopic but i was seriously dissappointed by the Tomb of Sargeras raid, one of the most anticipated raids due it's lore heavy implications, all just shoved aside.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    The Tomb should be swarming with demons but blizzard left them out. ToS literally has more Murlocs than demons in it, for the same reason it's a virtually pristine elven temple instead of a twisted ruin, because Blizzard didn't want it to feel too similar to Antorus or overdo the demons.

    Basically it's an unofficial retcon - gameplay over lore. They deemed it more important to have variation for variation's sake instead of consistency and lore.
    Yeah, I was confused as well. I think they could have replaced a boss down there (Engine, Harjatan or Sisters) with a demon, maybe revealed as the one who killed Gul'dan and who has basically gone feral, along with his cohort. I get that they don't want to overdo demons, but fighting as many Murlocs or ghost NEs as we fight demons in the Tomb of Sargeras is just wrong. It's not like we had that many demon raid bosses so far, even Antorus has several non-demon bosses and it is the very heart of the Burning Legion.

  6. #26
    Scarab Lord Flurryfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigxy the Lemming View Post
    Hmm apperantly they lost the ability to do that after Warcraft 1, so there are some doublesided facts around Maybe Blizzard themselfs were not quite sure about what a warlock really was. But in Warcraft 2 and 3, there were no warlocks with the ability to summon demons.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    The Tomb should be swarming with demons but blizzard left them out. ToS literally has more Murlocs than demons in it, for the same reason it's a virtually pristine elven temple instead of a twisted ruin, because Blizzard didn't want it to feel too similar to Antorus or overdo the demons.

    Basically it's an unofficial retcon - gameplay over lore. They deemed it more important to have variation for variation's sake instead of consistency and lore.
    Blizzard will proberly excuse it with, that the demons got returned to Argus or used in the army when Gul'dan took over the place in 7.0. I would actually agree, that it would be odd if all the demons in the tomb had stayed there, since the Legion had actually taken full control of the tomb from that point.

    Also, Illidan did pretty much ruin the entire tomb after he went and got the eye of Sargeras. And Maiev did have her own fill of demonic killing while she was there, so maybe all of them were just killed off.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    Blizzard will proberly excuse it with, that the demons got returned to Argus or used in the army when Gul'dan took over the place in 7.0. I would actually agree, that it would be odd if all the demons in the tomb had stayed there, since the Legion had actually taken full control of the tomb from that point.

    Also, Illidan did pretty much ruin the entire tomb after he went and got the eye of Sargeras. And Maiev did have her own fill of demonic killing while she was there, so maybe all of them were just killed off.
    It's the Legion's main base on Azeroth, the very source of their invasion. It should have been extremely heavily guarded.

    And after being smashed to the bottom of the sea by the sundering, then violently thrust back to the surface, being partially collapsed during Illidan's visit, then being rocked by the Cataclysm, and all the while filled with demons for 10,000 years the place by all logic should be a corrupted ruin. It's been a demon tomb far longer than it was an elven temple. But the Tomb in the game is utterly pristine - barely a brick out of place, and next to no demonic corruption at all.

  8. #28
    Legendary! slime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheapnecrolyte View Post
    Quick question: Why did MU Gul'dan not have a demonic army to protect him against the Burning Legion or against the demons that tore him to shreds at the Tomb of Sargeras? Is the whole warlock class not about fighting fel army against fel army?
    It really doesn't matter if he did or did not, we would still just carefully pull one pack at a time like we always do. Guess the devs just felt like giving us a break from time gating trash.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post

    but they cant summon spiders and posion...
    also the demon yes was summoned, but it killed the warlock, and they would simply command them from the spirit realm until the demon died...
    it was not "i summon a demon at my side and it obeys" it was "i give my life to summon a demon, then i from the spirit realm direct it where to go"
    I don't understand what you mean by that. What does that have to do with the question of if Demons could be summoned in a warcraft RTS? Different warlocks can do different spells I guess - it's not like we haven't gotten new and lost a few abilities in WoW overtime and some Warlock NPCs can do stuff we never could. And to be honest, we do have a LOT of demonic spiders in Legion.

    And as for the demon - eh, at least in Warcraft 1: "The most powerful spell ever rumored to exist. Legends say that the caster would have the ability to summon forth a daemon by allowing his body to be sacrificed to enable its existence in this plane. The daemon would then be guided by the spirit of the caster to do his bidding, but should the daemon be destroyed, the warlock's life would be forfeit. The truth to this tale is questionable, but the incantations and rituals used to summon the creature may lay in some lost runic writings. The dream of every follower of the underworld is to rediscover these incantations and be able to command the power of the Daemon"

    I'm sure they've retcon'd it, but I'm just answering the question if they could summon in the RTS games (even though you see lots and lots of demons being summoned these days without such heavy sacrifices). Which they could. And the warlocks didn't die when the were summoned, nor were they killed off when the demon died. I remember these things darn well since Warcraft 1 is the first game I ever remember playing and I did love to summon 4 of those demons and wreck the enemy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    Hmm apperantly they lost the ability to do that after Warcraft 1, so there are some doublesided facts around Maybe Blizzard themselfs were not quite sure about what a warlock really was. But in Warcraft 2 and 3, there were no warlocks with the ability to summon demons.
    Well in Warcraft 2 there were no warlocks so, I guess that makes sense! The spellcasters of Necrolytes and Warlocks was swapped for Ogre Mages and Death Knights. Warcraft 3 you see them for like.. 2 missions in RoC and around 2 in the Outland missions of TFT and then, no, not much of demon summoning either. Either way: Warlocks could summon demons in at least one RTS game!
    Last edited by Sigxy the Lemming; 2017-08-20 at 01:18 PM.

  10. #30
    Old God FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigxy the Lemming View Post
    I don't understand what you mean by that. What does that have to do with the question of if Demons could be summoned in a warcraft RTS? Different warlocks can do different spells I guess - it's not like we haven't gotten new and lost a few abilities in WoW overtime and some Warlock NPCs can do stuff we never could. And to be honest, we do have a LOT of demonic spiders in Legion.

    And as for the demon - eh, at least in Warcraft 1: "The most powerful spell ever rumored to exist. Legends say that the caster would have the ability to summon forth a daemon by allowing his body to be sacrificed to enable its existence in this plane. The daemon would then be guided by the spirit of the caster to do his bidding, but should the daemon be destroyed, the warlock's life would be forfeit. The truth to this tale is questionable, but the incantations and rituals used to summon the creature may lay in some lost runic writings. The dream of every follower of the underworld is to rediscover these incantations and be able to command the power of the Daemon"

    I'm sure they've retcon'd it, but I'm just answering the question if they could summon in the RTS games (even though you see lots and lots of demons being summoned these days without such heavy sacrifices). Which they could. And the warlocks didn't die when the were summoned, nor were they killed off when the demon died. I remember these things darn well since Warcraft 1 is the first game I ever remember playing and I did love to summon 4 of those demons and wreck the enemy!



    Well in Warcraft 2 there were no warlocks so, I guess that makes sense! The spellcasters of Necrolytes and Warlocks was swapped for Ogre Mages and Death Knights. Warcraft 3 you see them for like.. 2 missions in RoC and around 2 in the Outland missions of TFT and then, no, not much of demon summoning either. Either way: Warlocks could summon demons in at least one RTS game!
    From the spell you just linked yourself
    "allowing his body to be sacrificed"
    "The daemon would then be guided by the spirit of the caster to do his bidding"
    "but should the daemon be destroyed, the warlock's life would be forfeit."
    you literally post this qoute, then say "but they didnt die"
    Quote Originally Posted by Domoda View Post
    I was a "Warlock main" In vanilla and i think soulshards disappeared upon logging out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    Me too!

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    From the spell you just linked yourself
    "allowing his body to be sacrificed"
    "The daemon would then be guided by the spirit of the caster to do his bidding"
    "but should the daemon be destroyed, the warlock's life would be forfeit."
    you literally post this qoute, then say "but they didnt die"
    Aaand right after those very lines...

    The truth to this tale is questionable, but the incantations and rituals used to summon the creature may lay in some lost runic writings.
    That line was exactly after what ya said. It was even underlined for you. And in the RTS, the warlocks did not die - wether it's lore canon or not, doesn't matter. It was just an answer to the question. Which was the entire point of the post because I only pointed out that, yes, you could summon demons in the RTS games with warlocks.

    Now, I'll ask again: what does the summon spider and poison cloud spells have to do with my answer to that guy, wether warlocks could summon a Demon or not in an old RTS game? Because you seem really lost at the moment.

    Edit:

    In fact, let's make this as easy on you as possible.

    Question was: "Couldn't Warlocks summon demons in the Warcraft RTS?"

    Answer: 4 Minutes 11 Seconds in

    Last edited by Sigxy the Lemming; 2017-08-20 at 07:13 PM.

  12. #32
    Old God FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigxy the Lemming View Post
    Aaand right after those very lines...

    The truth to this tale is questionable, but the incantations and rituals used to summon the creature may lay in some lost runic writings.
    That line was exactly after what ya said. It was even underlined for you. And in the RTS, the warlocks did not die - wether it's lore canon or not, doesn't matter. It was just an answer to the question. Which was the entire point of the post because I only pointed out that, yes, you could summon demons in the RTS games with warlocks.

    Now, I'll ask again: what does the summon spider and poison cloud spells have to do with my answer to that guy, wether warlocks could summon a Demon or not in an old RTS game? Because you seem really lost at the moment.

    Edit:

    In fact, let's make this as easy on you as possible.

    Question was: "Couldn't Warlocks summon demons in the Warcraft RTS?"

    Answer: 4 Minutes 11 Seconds in

    Interesting, ok, that is weird it would say such a thing, but then well... not do it.
    also the spiders and posion thing is simply weird that we never saw ANYTHING like them after that
    Quote Originally Posted by Domoda View Post
    I was a "Warlock main" In vanilla and i think soulshards disappeared upon logging out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    Me too!

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Interesting, ok, that is weird it would say such a thing, but then well... not do it.
    also the spiders and posion thing is simply weird that we never saw ANYTHING like them after that
    III guess it's because this game was made so long ago and they were a bit limited...? *Shrugs* I 'unno. And the spider thing I -can- understand if they are... demonic spiders I suppose but they don't mention that. Poison cloud, I'll admit: No idea! o_o

  14. #34
    As Xalatath says : intruders face intruders ...

    But hell bet Guldan just ... faced Jaraxus eredar lord of the burning legion
    "Are you sexually harassing me right now? Because if you are, I think I’m gonna have to report you. For giving me a serious boner."
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