Which events from the Chronicles are not canon anymore?

[chrisisvacant]

did you read the part where its fucking irrelevant where it came from because of how the events happened?

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okay again. Deathwing erupting is not a byproduct of KILLING the old gods. its an entirely different being not comparable to what happened the way Yasharraj died.

Deathwing caused earthquakes by shattering the pillar of earth in deepholm and coming up THROUGH the mealstrom.

Yasharajj left a CRATER and opened up hallow "veins" where his tendrils used to go that caused the world soul to bleed out heavily.

Deathwing shattered the earth pillar to escape. Yogg Saron Dying didnt shatter the earth pillar.

Deathwing went on his world tour of destruction because he was a powerful behemoth, not because Yogg Sarons Death caused firestorms to randomly appear.\

This is the topic and if none of you can grasp that then so be it. You must be confused by elementary school writing.

I think you are just taking the causality bit a smidge too literal.

[FelPlague]

did you read the part where its fucking irrelevant where it came from because of how the events happened?

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okay again. Deathwing erupting is not a byproduct of KILLING the old gods. its an entirely different being not comparable to what happened the way Yasharraj died.

Deathwing caused earthquakes by shattering the pillar of earth in deepholm and coming up THROUGH the mealstrom.

Yasharajj left a CRATER and opened up hallow "veins" where his tendrils used to go that caused the world soul to bleed out heavily.

Deathwing shattered the earth pillar to escape. Yogg Saron Dying didnt shatter the earth pillar.

Deathwing went on his world tour of destruction because he was a powerful behemoth, not because Yogg Sarons Death caused firestorms to randomly appear.\

This is the topic and if none of you can grasp that then so be it. You must be confused by elementary school writing.

It is from chris metzen himself, it is possible yog sarrons death played a role, warning nzoth possibly, causing him to wake up deathwing "it is time, they are going to come for me" kinda deal


i do love how you are trying to say you have more lore authority then chris though...

[Aucald]

Three words

Isnt falstaad dead?

The argument is killing old gods is bad. Deathwing would of risen regardless of yogg saron being killed or not. If the hour of twilight got sped up because of it is irrelevant. It was going to happen anyway

Correctness is not quite the same thing as canonicity - the Devs can alter the story, changing the nature of events (e.g. the Eredar and the origins of the Draenei) and so make new canon and retiring existing canon. In the case of the Draenei Metzen made a mistake about the Eredar's history but that mistake is now part of Warcraft canon regardless.

As for the Old Gods and the Cataclysm, Metzen's quote implies that Yogg-Saron's death was indeed a component that sparked the Cataclysm. Likely Yogg-Saron's death sent a shockwave out that destabilized the boundaries between Azeroth and Elemental Planes, causing the Elemental upheaval that occurred before Deathwing's actual release (a psychic event that Thrall and many other Shamans picked up on in the waning days of the Northrend campaign). This shockwave might've also compromised the World Pillar in Deepholm, which Deathwing capitalized on when he fully destroyed it and escaped Deepholm in a fury.

[Lahis]

Correctness is not quite the same thing as canonicity - the Devs can alter the story, changing the nature of events (e.g. the Eredar and the origins of the Draenei) and so make new canon and retiring existing canon. In the case of the Draenei Metzen made a mistake about the Eredar's history but that mistake is now part of Warcraft canon regardless.

As for the Old Gods and the Cataclysm, Metzen's quote implies that Yogg-Saron's death was indeed a component that sparked the Cataclysm. Likely Yogg-Saron's death sent a shockwave out that destabilized the boundaries between Azeroth and Elemental Planes, causing the Elemental upheaval that occurred before Deathwing's actual release (a psychic event that Thrall and many other Shamans picked up on in the waning days of the Northrend campaign). This shockwave might've also compromised the World Pillar in Deepholm, which Deathwing capitalized on when he fully destroyed it and escaped Deepholm in a fury.

What really happened:

"Shit, we have used Illidan, Arthas and even KJ. We have no big shots from WC3 left. What now?"

"Anything from previous Warcrafts?"

"Well they're all dead or... wait, Deathwing is still alive!"

"Deathwing, there! Expansion 3, go!"


(In all seriousness, upcomign Chronicles volumes could give us connection between Yogg-Saron's death and Cataclysm.)

[Aucald]

What really happened:

"Shit, we have used Illidan, Arthas and even KJ. We have no big shots from WC3 left. What now?"

"Anything from previous Warcrafts?"

"Well they're all dead or... wait, Deathwing is still alive!"

"Deathwing, there! Expansion 3, go!"


(In all seriousness, upcomign Chronicles volumes could give us connection between Yogg-Saron's death and Cataclysm.)

I've no doubt that a version of that is how the rough storyboarding for WoW kind of goes - although that's a conversation that probably happened somewhere in the midst of Classic or maybe TBC. Mining for a marquee type of character, then giving them a storyline connected to previous events in some way. The Dev. team probably likes to be 2 expansions ahead of the curve at any time in the process, with allowances for story alterations as needed to suit either player reaction or changes in the narrative flow.

"Chronicles Vol. 3" or "Vol. 4" might make the connection more or explicit - it may not, it could theoretically change the nature of the Old Gods to fit in with the ever-looming Void concept more tightly. I've no doubt that the role of the Old Gods has been changed a bit from the earlier days of WoW, though.

[tristannarutofan]

I don't think Blizzard has necessarily retconned anything from Chronicles (I've only read Pt. 1, however).

Blizzard has supplemented Chronicle with new information, but all of it can be reconciled.

One thing that people commonly point to as a Chronicle "retcon" is the fact that Chronicle says that Sargeras destroyed the Titans, but we go to Argus and discover that Sargeras captured their souls. This can be reconciled because Chronicle also mentions that Norgannon protected the Titans' spirits just before their bodies were destroyed, sent their spirits into the Keepers, and the Keepers couldn't hold the Titans' spirits inside them. It follows then that the spirits were left hostless to wander the Great Dark Beyond until they were ultimately found by Sargeras/Aggramar.

yea people need to realize that just because they arent sure how 2 bits of lore fit together that it doesnt mean its badly written.

like people talking about overwatch couldnt understand how someone not in overwatch could take a picture with the overwatch team so they assumed that picture with mercy was an inconsistency and insulted michael chu about it.

[Aquamonkey]

Deathwing caused earthquakes by shattering the pillar of earth in deepholm and coming up THROUGH the mealstrom.

The earthquakes happened quite a bit before DW did that.

[anaxie]

The earthquakes happened quite a bit before DW did that.

Watch the cinematic where deathwing is flailing around

[Aquamonkey]

Watch the cinematic where deathwing is flailing around

And the elemental unrest prelude to Cataclysm? ...the stuff that happened before DW busted the World Pillar.

[anaxie]

And the elemental unrest prelude to Cataclysm? ...the stuff that happened before DW busted the World Pillar.

Twilights hammer obviously

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Nothing was really retconned. It was just elaborated.

[FelPlague]

And the elemental unrest prelude to Cataclysm? ...the stuff that happened before DW busted the World Pillar.

Aqua, the person has been banned countless times, and has a wow hentai character with the words "not banned"
dont waste your time, plz.

[Psychotrip]

Since Blizzard retconned even Chronicles stuff is there a list with the things that aren't canon from there anymore?

Necroing this because I’m curious. Blizzard already retconned stuff from Chronicles? Like what?

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The titan thing, as mentioned, is an obvious one. Considering that whole section seemed to exist to explain how Wrathion got that vision and the whole "We must rebuild the final titan" quote, it seemed pretty explicit that the titan souls were on Azeroth. It also made it explicit how the titan's souls escaped, and how Sargeras absolutely had no idea it happened. There are ways to interpret the new lore as an expansion and continuation of that, but it still contradicts it as written.

The Chronicle also said that Sargeras recruited the eredar because he needed leaders to command the Legion, and that demons respawned naturally if killed outside the Nether or an otherwise heavily fel-saturated location. I don't know if the former is being contradicted directly, but since the latter concept is being replaced with the idea that the world-soul of Argus is what allows the Legion to respawn, it heavily implies that Argus was only important due to its world-soul, and not its people.

There's also the relationship between Odyn, Helya, and the val'kyr. In the Chronicle, Odyn was offended by the dragons being empowered when perfectly good defenders like him already existed, and decided to invent the val'kyr as his own army to prove that he could do it without the dragons. The val'kyr needed to be undead, however, and no one wanted to volunteer for that, so he forced people into it. Loken gave Helya a way out and she and the val'kyr eventually broke free and betrayed Odyn. In Legion, Odyn was always charged with creating an army and formed an army of Light val'kyr, which everyone seems to see as an honor to become. Loken sowed discord between Odyn and Helya, leading her to betray him and eventually forcing her to create the kvaldir to imitate Odyn, since it seems most of the val'kyr stayed with him instead of her. In fact, val'kyr didn't show up around Helya at all in Legion until the raid in 7.1, despite her having all of them (except the Spirit Healers) in the Chronicle, leading me to believe they realized the contradiction and tried to offset it at least a little.

I think a subtle but telling sign of this difference is that in the Chronicle, Helya is a victim all the way, even if she falls in with the wrong crowd due to it. In Legion, Helya is gleeful about her malice, and never once tries to justify her hatred of Odyn despite it being extremely understandable in the Chronicle. The closest she ever comes to anything resembling saying anything bad about Odyn outside of generic insults is "He... must not... win...", which anyone would say about their nemesis. Likewise, Xal'atath has comments about how Odyn's arrogance helped convince Helya to betray him, not the much more blatant fact that he murdered her and forced a curse upon her like in the Chronicle.

The naaru are already on their way to being contradicted. The Chronicle describes them as just another lifeform that came into being naturally as Light exploded into the new universe. However, with the introduction of Prime Naaru, the idea that Elune (whoever she is) might have consciously created the Prime Naaru, and that Xe'ra may not be quite what she seems, are already setting up a potential contradiction of the origin given in the Chronicle.

Dear lord. How are we supposed to even follow this story if Blizzard can’t keep it straight for more than a year?

[Blayze]

Well, we went from Kalimdor being the only continent to being the largest one to being the only one again.

[Phookah]

Necroing this because I’m curious. Blizzard already retconned stuff from Chronicles? Like what?

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Dear lord. How are we supposed to even follow this story if Blizzard can’t keep it straight for more than a year?

1. Don't necro short threads to ask questions that have already been answered.
2. Nothing from chronicle has been retconned. Expanded on, but not retconned.

[Psychotrip]

1. Don't necro short threads to ask questions that have already been answered.
2. Nothing from chronicle has been retconned. Expanded on, but not retconned.

Clearly it wasn’t answered, considering everyone (including you) seems to disagree on whether or not things were retconned. This is still a conversation worth having, and it’s not worth spamming the forums with a new thread when a perfectly good one already exists.