Illidan Stormrage what is actually canon?

[Deleted]

With the new Velen/Illidan cinematic having come out, everyone is of the notion that Illidan his statements were justified towards Velen.

Which is just a wrong. Even Chronicles: Vol.I has Illidan stealing the Demon Soul from Malfurion, leading to Azshara making a portal large enough for Sargeras to come through (And yes, I know that people don't like Knaaks work, but the overall story is still canon). This has never been retconned, except that with recent retcons he might have stolen it with good intentions instead of power. But that still means that his actions nearly destroyed Azeroth.

And why would Velen not even mention that Illidan sacrificed tons of Broken Draenei their souls, making him no better than Sargeras?


I'm just confused by all the retcons and Illidan his character atm. It's very frustrating reading people praise Illidan now, when according to the lore he is more a villain than an Anti-hero even. With knowing his pre-retconned lore, it makes it very hard to even accept him as a "hero" let stand be ok with him talking bullshit because Blizzard has a hard on for him at this moment.


Anyone else having a hard time with all the Illidan crap being shoved down your throat while being presented as kaviar?

And anyone want to give the canon lore of illidan (both the good and bad things he did).

[Aucald]

The statements aren't justified, they're just Illidan's opinions of Velen's actions and conduct so far - he's entitled to his opinion, and it's not really a matter of being correct or incorrect in the factual sense. Illidan is also subject to the same kind of judgement, his tyrannical actions as de-facto "ruler" of Outland, and the terrible deeds he's done in the pursuit of his vendetta against the Legion. Some might say the ends justify the means, whereas others might inquire as to the nature of a victory that costs the victors their own essential humanity.

Neither Legion nor the "Illidan" novel are really a retcon of Illidan's character in the strictest sense - both simply reveal further information about Illidan, his actions, and his past that change the context of what's already happened. At his core he remains a quintessential antihero: willing to pursue questionable or even malevolent actions in the cause of a greater good of protecting Azeroth and defeating the Burning Legion once and for all. His mockery of Velen is a reflection of this - the two are essentially opposites in terms of demeanor and life-choices.

[Dreknar20]

The statements aren't justified, they're just Illidan's opinions

justifications are peoples opinions

[Netherspark]

It's all cannon, no matter how inconsistent or cheesy it is.

The real Illidan died at the end of Warcraft 3. What we've had of him since then has been a totally out of character maddened villian, and now a totally out of character selfless superhero. These extreme retcons have been presented as merely the perspectives of people who "don't understand him".

[Dreknar20]

, and now a totally out of character selfless superhero

yeah they kinda really pushing, "he never did anything out of ambition or revenge, everything only to defeat the legion."

[nothingsjim]

Um...this is precisely the character of Illidan though...
Hes been that guy who thinks he alone knows the best way to do something and if his way works it's the only good way. I.e. Why he justified well of eternity, third war, Outland, and Legion. It makes total sense: he has always come up with a plan entirely on his own and then enacted said plan on his own. Legion is zero difference. And he's been an arrogant son of a bitch for decades, it all makes total sense that he talks down to Velen.

This, I don't know why people are complaining about Blizzard whitewashing Illidan for the people, while he actually remains the arrogant SoB he always was. We were given the backstory and the reason of his behavior, but whether or not those justify his action is entirely up for the player, and I believe the majority would say no.

This cinematic shows Blizzard keeping consistency with their character, and I applaud them for that. (And Illidan's grin is awesome)

[Aucald]

justifications are peoples opinions

Justified in terms of canon or otherwise empirically true - as in there is no justice in them.

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[MetroidHunter]

Illidan is that shit talking elitist player in your casual raid that everyone hates but has to tolerate because his DPS is so good.

[Dreknar20]

We were given the backstory and the reason of his behavior

They "whitewashed" his motivations so that he can become a protagonist for WoWs standards

[Deleted]

But in the War of the Ancient trilogy, we read that illidan joined the highborn because he was upset with Malfurion because of Tyrande, has this been retconned to him just infiltrating the highborn without any malicious intentions then? It's been a while since I read those books, but i'm pretty sure he wanted Malfurion out of the picture.


I will be glad when he is out of the story. I never liked him, but now it's just so much worse. Especially with being told in-game that my character is wrong, and in real life that I'm wrong as well by having read pre-retconend stuff. He might as well be a complete new character how it is at the moment. Not like anyone ever mentions what this character has done pre-legion.

This really has been the worst retcon they have done so far. I hope it's the last of this magnitude.

[Aucald]

But in the War of the Ancient trilogy, we read that illidan joined the highborn because he was upset with Malfurion because of Tyrande, has this been retconned to him just infiltrating the highborn without any malicious intentions then? It's been a while since I read those books, but i'm pretty sure he wanted Malfurion out of the picture.


I will be glad when he is out of the story. I never liked him, but now it's just so much worse. Especially with being told in-game that my character is wrong, and in real life that I'm wrong as well by having read pre-retconend stuff. He might as well be a complete new character how it is at the moment. Not like anyone ever mentions what this character has done pre-legion.

This really has been the worst retcon they have done so far. I hope it's the last of this magnitude.

Illidan's thoughts were darkened by Xavius during the War of the Ancients, and he split from his brother and Tyrande due to his anger and, after awhile, thought of a new plan to return to Azshara with designs to deceive both her and Sargeras by pretending to be in their service and learn their plans (all with an eye toward defeating the Legion while preserving the Well of Eternity, which Malfurion and co. were intent on destroying).

[Khaza-R]

His comments don't make sense to me. Illidan gives fuck all about saving anyone if the ends justify the means. This is the same character that didnt care the Naga were slaughtering his people just because they were a poweful ally. Same as he didnt care he was destroying Azeroth when he was using the Eye of Sargeras.

He just sounds like a self-righteous douche in the new cinematic

[MrFiddleswitch]

I haven't played the 7.3 content (want it all in context with the cinematic(s) for first playthrough), but I think this particular cinematic is being taken somewhat out of context.

By that I mean that I believe this is the foundation of a story line between Illidan (anti-hero extreme - to the point of being the villain) talking down to the quintessential "goodie two shoes" because Illidan's methods succeeded for the most part, while Velen's failed (from Illidan's point of view). I'm assuming (at least hoping) that over the course of the 7.3 and 7.3.5 story, that Illidan will come to see the merit in Velen's way, and that Velen may come to see some of the merit in Illidan's.

Obviously this is all conjecture, and only time will tell, but if I wanted to set up Illidan to be truly redeemed, this is where I would start - by showing him at his most sardonic, cruel, and "evil" in order to set the stage for him to grow into the Hero of Prophecy.

[Deleted]

Illidan's thoughts were darkened by Xavius during the War of the Ancients, and he split from his brother and Tyrande due to his anger and, after awhile, thought of a new plan to return to Azshara with designs to deceive both her and Sargeras by pretending to be in their service and learn their plans (all with an eye toward defeating the Legion while preserving the Well of Eternity, which Malfurion and co. were intent on destroying).

Doesn't change the fact that he stole the demon soul from Malfurion only to give it to Azshara and never use it against the legion. If it wasn't because of Malfurion and Co. Sargeras would have won.

His comments don't make sense to me. Illidan gives fuck all about saving anyone if the ends justify the means. This is the same character that didnt care the Naga were slaughtering his people just because they were a poweful ally. Same as he didnt care he was destroying Azeroth when he was using the Eye of Sargeras.

He just sounds like a self-righteous douche in the new cinematic

I agree 100%, he has done way to many bad things to claim any high ground. He sacrificed exactly nothing, the broken unwillingly did however. If it wasn't for Blizzard their shitty writing, Illidan would have no leadership role at all, if we would even bring him back.

[Combatbutler]

With the new Velen/Illidan cinematic having come out, everyone is of the notion that Illidan his statements were justified towards Velen.

Considering Velens track record, yeah they are, too bad it was Illidan and as such much of the message was lost, but he was spot on in many regards, a good number of worlds burned due to Velens blind faith and inaction.

[Aucald]

Doesn't change the fact that he stole the demon soul from Malfurion only to give it to Azshara and never use it against the legion. If it wasn't because of Malfurion and Co. Sargeras would have won.

That's true - stealing the Demon Soul from Malfurion was a requirement for Illidan to ingratiate himself further to Azshara and the Legion and learn their plans, information he then gave back to the Kaldorei resistance (e.g. Malfurion and Tyrande) which ultimately led to the Legion's defeat. It was also necessary for the Demon Soul to be present at the Well of Eternity so that the PC's time-traveling back into the War of the Ancients could reclaim it for use in their present against Deathwing.

[Moozart]

Velen is a product of Light Privilege

[Dreknar20]

It was also necessary for the Demon Soul to be present at the Well of Eternity so that the PC's time-traveling back into the War of the Ancients could reclaim it for use in their present against Deathwing.

something illidan had no knowledge of

What about working with the naga, pillaging ToS for the eye, using it, slaughtering the wardens?
How did all these contribute to the end of the legion?

[Deleted]

That's true - stealing the Demon Soul from Malfurion was a requirement for Illidan to ingratiate himself further to Azshara and the Legion and learn their plans, information he then gave back to the Kaldorei resistance (e.g. Malfurion and Tyrande) which ultimately led to the Legion's defeat. It was also necessary for the Demon Soul to be present at the Well of Eternity so that the PC's time-traveling back into the War of the Ancients could reclaim it for use in their present against Deathwing.

He isn't a very good infiltrator if he hands the most powerful artifact over to the enemy, only to get some intel that would most likely be "They are gonna open a big ass portal with the artifact I gave them." Him infiltrating just made the war effort harder.

Anything he did in WoTA was harmful to the war effort, only at the end he helped. If it wasn't for the confirmations we got that he was supposed to be a good guy then. His stories wouldn't match up with what he actually did.

[Aucald]

What about working with the naga, pillaging ToS for the eye, using it, slaughtering the wardens? How did all these contribute to the end of the legion?

Recruiting the Naga, pillaging the Tomb for the Eye and using it to destroy the Lich King was to ingratiate himself to Kil'jaeden to prevent his own destruction while he worked to further his long-term plans. The attempt, while a failure, still gave him the critical space needed to create a fortified base on Outland and secure it against further Legion incursion. He also gained access to the Naga and the Blood Elves that would go on to form the backbone of his Illidari forces.

From Outland Illidan went on to destroy Nathreza as well as a few other vital Legion installations, get access to the Sargerite Keystone, and finally concoct a plan to destroy the Legion once and for all - a plan now being enacted in the final content patch of Legion.