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  1. #581
    Quote Originally Posted by Binaris View Post
    Lastly from a crafters point of view. This game, hands down, is the single most though out and well executed crafter game in mmos. Your crafters are classes, they have rotations, and the gear they make is kept relevant when new content is added.
    I actually like DQ11 version of crafting more, system is similar (fill progress bars with limited resources), but skills are more valuable and there is an option to rework the item with special currency if you didn't get the highest quality (in comparison NQ is a waste of resources). Also FFXIV version suffers from static turn system, you can macro your rotation into one button and then there isn't a single difference from something like WoW except for special gear for crafting.
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  2. #582
    Leveling crafting in XIV is more fun than pretty much anything in WoW, but for some reason SE seems intent on ruining that experience lately. The sheer amount of stuff to do outside of raiding though makes the game still more fun than WoW IMO, and you can still make crafting/gathering interesting if you want it to be.

  3. #583
    Legendary! Kathranis's Avatar
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    My feelings on FFXIV remain about the same.

    The story is excellent, well beyond anything in WoW. It actually makes you care about characters and evokes real emotion. They also do a great job building up storylines over time, and keeping multiple plot lines running. Everything feels like progression and development, with expansions blending and weaving together pretty seamlessly.

    There is a lot of world content, though I would hesitate to say it is superior to WoW's. For the most part, it is similar. FATEs, Leves, and Hunts are basically WQs by another name, though something about their implementation does feel more... organic? The Golden Saucer, Triple Triad, etc. can be compared to Darkmoon Faire and Pet Battles.

    Level sync in FFXIV is (IMO) quite inferior to level scaling in WoW for the simple reason that you lose access to your abilities, meaning you have to adjust playstyle and rotation, with your rotation being less interesting the lower level the content you're doing is.

    WoW's collection systems are definitely superior. If you are a collector, WoW is the game for you. The glamour system is really clunky compared to WoW's appearance collection, and the game does a much poorer job supporting content soloing (though it is possible). There are way fewer mounts and pets, and no toys, in FFXIV.

    In terms of pure gameplay, I think WoW is generally better. FFXIV has longer and more complex rotations, but slower pacing and simpler encounter design. In my experience there is noticeable input delay, and movement is a bit floaty, whereas WoW has very tight movement. FFXIV's attack telegraphing system is also kind of janky in that it doesn't sync with the visual effects and animations; you need to watch the telegraphing arrows and cast bars, not the enemy attack animations.

    Character customization and progression in FFXIV is way more straightforward, which could be a plus or minus depending on the player. No talents, no specializations, no real way to modify gameplay on a per-character basis beyond maybe adjusting skill / spell speed through gear. Every Job plays the same across all players. Gearing basically boils down to farming the highest ilvl gear you can get from the content you have access to. IMO endgame in FFXIV is quite boring.

    FFXIV does do one thing I really like in its world design that WoW should really learn from, which is keeping the entire world relevant. You always have reasons to go back and revisit old locations, and many of the zones are designed to span multiple level ranges, so that progressing through the game will see you returning to and exploring new areas of old zones. The story really benefits from this, as the relationships you form with other characters become recurring plot points, and can have big payoffs down the line.

  4. #584
    Better classes

    Better gameplay

    Superior graphics

    Superior writing

    None gated flight

    A crafting system that is second to none and leaves WOW for DEAD.

    - - - Updated - - -

    That said, I’ve never seen anything explained about the profession system that makes it above WoWs other than faster to collect materials.
    Um...take one look at BFA crafting and then look at what happens with FF 14 crafting and say that. HQ gear is superior and you can gear your own toons to an extent and depth WOW hasnt had in a decade..wait...cancel that...WOW crafting is and always has been inferior across the board.

  5. #585
    Quote Originally Posted by Aehl View Post
    Better classes

    Better gameplay
    Ironically WoW's 10 button classes have more depth and more varied gameplay than FFXIV.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aehl View Post
    HQ gear is superior
    To what? It's below tomestone gear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aehl View Post
    you can gear your own toons to an extent and depth WOW hasnt had in a decade
    You have like 2 options per slot with no major differences between them, where are the extent and the depth?
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  6. #586
    FFXIV is new to me so it feels somewhat fresh, even though it contains all the usual quest/content types. The game feels somehow more complex and more casual at the same time. One thing that's kind of throwing me off, and this could just be the FC/guild I randomly dropped into, is that the community seems to trend more towards furry convention therapy session than I'd prefer. I've considered throwing in the towel due to the uncomfortably bizarre people I'm meeting. No, I don't want to hear about the dong size on your nude mod, or about how you think kids need a good slapping every once in a while. Seems like the guys hanging out at the Goldshire Inn took over an entire game.
    Last edited by Pratt; 2019-06-27 at 08:52 PM.

  7. #587
    Heres the thing, wow only used to do one thing good. Loot based game, with overpowered loot. Then they turned it into a randomized loot stat sticks and wow was done. Wow always implement the minimal effort of every system imaginable. FF14 had this low loot effort from the start, but thats the point, FF14 offers you more and always tries when it does things. Even Blue mage is not as embarassing as garrisons (ok some people really love blue mage stuff im just messing with yall), but the point is even some of the lesser side content of FF14 is effort put in.

    The side effect of being stuck doing the FF14 MSQ to catch up is actually a reminder, this game is going upward. If you were stuck doing that in wow, good god, youd be stuck going in a downward spiral lol. But then again garabge like wod would end fast since it had no content lol.

    While wow is giving you stuff like glyphs and trying to pretend like its content and that its revolutionary, you should kiss their asses. Meanwhile dev in 14 do stuff like Eureka, an unperfect attempt at ultra large scale PVE. But guess what it was a good attempt and all it can mean is the next time it can be better. Blue mage is an interesting idea a class made to go throught low level content and beat the crap out of it with different gameplay, on paper it sounds fun, is it executed perfectly yet, nah, but it will get there, plus you add more of these limited classes to fill a party then people can have fun doing old content in wild ways. Blizzard would never bother with anything like that, point in case their only attempt as housing, lowest effort shit in the book. Didnt work, lets just scrap it and never go back to it, because making it good would have required effort. Effort = cost money = less money.

    Wow would have no problem with its low effort side content if it had stuck to what was good about it, a fucking loot based RPG with wild fucking loot. When you get your sword that proc increase your dps by 30% and you went fucking crazy. Thats what wow was good for. All the side content with low effort dont do shit. They didnt need it. Now they need it because otherwise nobody has anything to do. WoW is filled with the most mediocre side content and its all stuff they want you to do every day. They gate stuff, force you to grind a fucking xp bar forever.


    A great quote from the man that saved FF14 resumed why i been playing this game for years after wod trashed me. Im gona paraphrase Yoshida here but it was something like this: "FF14 is designed on the premise that you dont need to play every day or be subcribed all year. "There is no alt, no rush to the finish line, you dont need to grind stuff that you dont want to grind. The loot in FF14 is just stat sticks, as long as you meet the base ilevel of a place, you can clear it, its never hard to reach that ilevel either. Guess why, you might wanna try different job. Hell you might just wanna do profession for a month, work on your house and not raid. Guess what thats fine its not like the game is leaving you behind. Because your house is just as important in the context of this game as any raid mount or any amazing end game weapons cool skin. People visit your house and go like holy shit this look sick, just like they do when they see any sick weapon you unlocked. Thats the whole catch of MMO.
    Last edited by minteK917; 2019-06-27 at 09:32 PM.

  8. #588
    Ironically WoW's 10 button classes have more depth and more varied gameplay than FFXIV.
    10 button? I think you counted 5 twice. Blizzard didnt prune they amputated. LMAO.

    To what? It's below tomestone gear.
    To an extent, yes, but the entire system is complex and diverse, not to mention the fact that HQ gear is BIS all the way. Your crafting needs a ROTATION, mate.

    WOWs crafting is a joke. So is BFA.

    You have like 2 options per slot with no major differences between them, where are the extent and the depth?
    Want an illustration of the skills and abilities crafters have? The fact you have to farm a diverse set of mats, the crafts are interconnected....and interdependent

    - - - Updated - - -

    Heres the difference

    i dont see FF 14 sinking to the levels of desperation Blizzard has.

    Another mount and a 6 month sub lock in LOL.

  9. #589
    Quote Originally Posted by Aehl View Post
    Better classes

    Better gameplay

    Superior graphics

    Superior writing

    None gated flight

    A crafting system that is second to none and leaves WOW for DEAD.
    First point is true but also false. The class balance is atrocious in FFXIV, and there is pretty much a rotation to each class that you follow but that doesn't mean the classes are not fun.

    Second point, depends. If you want raid and dungeons, no, FFXIV is not a challenge. It's easy and raids are boring since they are just an instanced teleport to a boss.

    Third point, I guess you like that artstyle more but ever since the update to WoW the graphics are a lot better, it's not even up for discussion rofl.

    Fourth point, yepp totally. That's the strength of FFXIV, it's a story oriented game.

    Fifth point, true I guess, you still gotta finish the zone story before you can fly there but it beats waiting for a patch, though it does make the world kinda dead real quick since you can just fly from day 1.

    For crafting, didn't bother with it too much but yeah it looked miles better than current one in WoW.


    FFXIV is a fun game to start only and only if you are actually interested in lore and story. The game forces you (unless you pay to skip it all) to complete the WHOLE story, from the game release and all the other expansions, even if you ding 50 and have gotten half way through the story. You have to actually finish the whole main story in the base game to continue on to the first expansion which is from 50-60, and again you have to finish that whole story before you can move on to the next expansion. This includes ALL the patches, and it takes another 100 main story quests at lvl 50 to be able to move on to the next expansion (I am not joking, it's literally 100 quests). Sadly the questing is not exactly hard and kinda boring since it's literally just run from point A to B most of the time by using world teleports, so if a story driven MMO is not your thing then FFXIV is really not your type of game. It also has the strength of having all classes on one character and you can experience all the side class stories if you are willing to level them up.
    Last edited by Kapaya; 2019-06-28 at 12:01 AM.

  10. #590
    First point is true but also false. The class balance is atrocious in FFXIV, and there is pretty much a rotation to each class that you follow but that doesn't mean the classes are not fun.
    ...not really. It's just not split into, "Good and bad dps." There are more buff-oriented ones that do slightly less damage but bring way more utility. Although most of that is being changed in Shadowbringers. The problem classes of Dragoon, Machinist, and Ninja (in terms of damage) are being all fixed with the expansion.

    If you want raid and dungeons, no, FFXIV is not a challenge. It's easy and raids are boring since they are just an instanced teleport to a boss.
    ...maybe if you're doing nothing but normal modes.

    Third point, I guess you like that artstyle more but ever since the update to WoW the graphics are a lot better, it's not even up for discussion rofl.
    Oof. 100% disagree. WoW looks like a 2004 game still. Taking bad graphics and making them slightly better doesn't suddenly make them amazing. WoW's graphics were charming for the time but technology has gone far above and beyond 2004's level of quality and WoW has basically inched itself along to ~2007.

    Fifth point, true I guess, you still gotta finish the zone story before you can fly there but it beats waiting for a patch, though it does make the world kinda dead real quick since you can just fly from day 1.
    Definitely does not since you have to explore the zone in its entirety to get the aether currents, familiarizing yourself with it. I have no idea why people act like having to traverse a zone on foot for months is somehow fun, fulfilling, immersive, or rewarding.
    Last edited by Yoshingo; 2019-06-28 at 12:14 AM.

  11. #591
    Third point, I guess you like that artstyle more but ever since the update to WoW the graphics are a lot better, it's not even up for discussion rofl.
    Riighttttt..because WOW looks like this....

    http://www.ffxivinfo.com/maps/ishgard.php

    or this

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/129423014@N08/27408578993

    When did WOW have this

    https://cdn3.dualshockers.com/wp-con...owbrigners.png

    level of resolution or detail?

    NEVER.

    FF 14 is a modern MMO with modern graphics and detail and gameplay. WOW is a 15 year old engine that apparently is so fucked up that it is totally INCAPABLE of providing a proper universal day night cycle. You didnt know?

    They BROKE the OCE day night cycle to keep their American customers happy and then said :"its broke and we cant fix it".

    For the last FOUR YEARS we have been begging them to give us a day cycle that matches our own ingame instead of eternal night and wanna know what their reply is?

    The same as it always is

    It cant be done

    Heres another example

    With the new classes headgear was a problem....so the dev team..behind the bosses back..on their own time...made FIVE HUNDRED pieces and then presented it to Yoshida who was totally gobsmacked.
    the ff14 character team, on their own, without telling yoship, made 540 headgear models work on viera/hrothgar, after yoship told fans that headgear wouldn't work on the new races at launch. the ff14 team cares, and don't you forget it. #ff14 #ffxiv
    Blizzard wont even get CMs to talk to their players, the ones that do post cherry pick questions and are far more likely to post fluff like pink gnome hair. The OCE community has been flatly IGNORED for years and their overall communication is a sick joke.

    FF 14 has devs and staff that care.

    Blizzard doesnt care and hasnt for years.

    Oh and btw: the headgear announcement was made to the players in a letter....not on some obscure third party website buried on a weekend like the WOD flight debacle.

    WOWs graphics are 15 years old. Comparable to FF 14?.

    LOL NO.
    Last edited by Aehl; 2019-06-28 at 12:28 AM.

  12. #592
    Music is phenomenal in both games though.

  13. #593
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    Ironically WoW's 10 button classes have more depth and more varied gameplay than FFXIV.
    I don't think it has more depth, and I can't really agree with more varied game play, either.

    Though I guess it really depends on what you mean by deep. WoW combat might have a few more decision points than FFXIV, ie I have a choice between button 1 or button 2, which should I hit for optimal performance? But that's usually the extent of the choice, literally button 1 or button 2.

    FFXIV has fewer decisions like that, aside from ST vs AoE, but it still feels a lot more satisfying to use the abilities and combos than it does in WoW with it's 2 button rotations.

    That said, because all of the jobs have such similar numbers of abilities they use regularly the game play variance between them all gets blurred depending on how you set up your keybinds. The only thing truly different at that point are the animations and aesthetics you see. At least that's how it feels to me.

    The one notable exception is Havoc Demon Hunter just because how integral the movement mechanics are in their DPS rotation.

  14. #594
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    The one notable exception is Havoc Demon Hunter just because how integral the movement mechanics are in their DPS rotation.
    Only if you spec that way, and that spec is in and out of usefulness, and any other spec is basically braindead like every other wow spec :S

  15. #595
    anything positive about ffxiv is entirely negated by the fact that they literally have cat/bunny girls. it could be the best MMO ever made but they still have cat/bunny girls

  16. #596
    Quote Originally Posted by Pratt View Post
    One thing that's kind of throwing me off, and this could just be the FC/guild I randomly dropped into, is that the community seems to trend more towards furry convention therapy session than I'd prefer. I've considered throwing in the towel due to the uncomfortably bizarre people I'm meeting. No, I don't want to hear about the dong size on your nude mod, or about how you think kids need a good slapping every once in a while. Seems like the guys hanging out at the Goldshire Inn took over an entire game.
    This is more accurate than I'd like it to be. For more serious gamers, there are places and times where I do not feel welcome. Like I stepped into as you say some kind of Furry Anime Waifu Convention and I do feel awkward, but I manage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aehl View Post
    Better classes

    Better gameplay

    Superior graphics

    Superior writing

    None gated flight

    A crafting system that is second to none and leaves WOW for DEAD.
    • Better classes - Subjective, but I'm inclined to agree on the most part. I always praise FF14's jobs as they definitely FEEL very cool consistently whereas I think WoW does really well with some, and poorly with others, thus being inconsistent.
    • Better gameplay - Subjective, I find the gameplay to be a bit too slow. I also find the netcode to be awful and unresponsive. I find the sliding animations to be jarring. That said, I find the core theme of each class to be very enjoyable and the raiding content is good. I always praise FF14 for its Trials though. They are some of the best content I've ever experienced. WoW's gameplay is better though, smooth and ultra responsive and that's worth something.
    • Superior graphics - Subjective, but I'm inclined to agree. FF14's art style speaks to me more. I'm not a huge fan of WoW's cartoony one, but I tolerate it. That said, WoW definitely has much better textures (higher quality) and level design.
    • Superior writing - Subjective, but I'm inclined to agree. I'd argue most would as well.
    • None gated flight - Debatable. You technically are gated to finishing the zone in its entirety before you can even fly in it. Then most of the time flying in the empty zones offers very little tangible reward/gameplay. This is harder for me to debate because I actually don't like flying. I think it ruins games tbh.

    In the future when citing stuff like this, try to offer some examples or insight.

    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    Wow always implement the minimal effort of every system imaginable. FF14 had this low loot effort from the start, but thats the point, FF14 offers you more and always tries when it does things. Even Blue mage is not as embarassing as garrisons (ok some people really love blue mage stuff im just messing with yall), but the point is even some of the lesser side content of FF14 is effort put in.
    You're being disrespectful. WoW has plenty of issues. Lots of them in fact, but you're discounting so many features that changed the game:
    • Flex Raiding
    • Cross Realm Zone/Sharding
    • Mythic Plus
    • Collections
    • Level Scaling

    To just name a few. You can't say that they do minimal effort, because that's flat out wrong. They have a staggering amount of room to improve that's for sure though and I would definitely agree that BfA is not a good expansion overall with many features being duds.

    While wow is giving you stuff like glyphs and trying to pretend like its content and that its revolutionary, you should kiss their asses. Meanwhile dev in 14 do stuff like Eureka, an unperfect attempt at ultra large scale PVE. But guess what it was a good attempt and all it can mean is the next time it can be better. Blue mage is an interesting idea a class made to go throught low level content and beat the crap out of it with different gameplay, on paper it sounds fun, is it executed perfectly yet, nah, but it will get there, plus you add more of these limited classes to fill a party then people can have fun doing old content in wild ways. Blizzard would never bother with anything like that, point in case their only attempt as housing, lowest effort shit in the book. Didnt work, lets just scrap it and never go back to it, because making it good would have required effort. Effort = cost money = less money.
    Personally I think Eureka was one of the worst designed pieces of content I've ever seen in MMO history. Right next to Warfronts, but worse because it had huge implementation issues alongside its design ones and they held the relic hostage in it. It was nothing but degenerate shallow gameplay. The community was very divided over it. Personally I think it would have flopped without the Relic propping it up.

    Blue Mage being limited sucks IMO. I think sandbagging people to old content they've done 1 millions times is a punch in the face. I think it would have been better to saddle the identity a bit to fit in the trinity. However, the community was split on this as well. Though I'd posit much more were annoyed with this than with Eureka.

    A great quote from the man that saved FF14 resumed why i been playing this game for years after wod trashed me. Im gona paraphrase Yoshida here but it was something like this: "FF14 is designed on the premise that you dont need to play every day or be subcribed all year. "
    To be fair, while I respect his vision there sometimes I wish there was a reason to be subbed more often:

    I always imagine that if Chocobo Racing wasn't fucking garbage and instead was like a Mario Kart/CTR clone but on Chocobos with dope ass summons and magic and shit in the crates to mess with other players. Complete with a time attack mode and track editor and let people share tracks they make. Then they just add new summons/magic to the crates and tilesets to the maps/editors and boom. Easy scalable maintenance instead of build and forget content.

    Or what if Blitzball was in the game and it was a modified Rocket League but in a giant water sphere. You could create custom teams and jerseys and queue up into matches against other FCs, or statics, etc.

    Triple Triad is cool and all for the nostalgia, but it would have been cool if it was deeper. If it found a way to follow Hearthstone/MTG and make deeper more involved gameplay with the plethora of FF history/content it could be a blast.

    What if Battle Arena existed in the Gold Saucer and it was just like a random hodgepodge of dungeon/raid mechanics thrown on a random enemy model. The fun would be trying to figure out how to beat it with escalating handicaps. Like one player might get a permanent slow. One might not be able to use defensive skills. etc.

    FF14 has such a rich history of cool side content concepts. I'd love if they could find a way to create them in a really deep robust way that encourages community driven content (map editing/sharing) rather than always developing the super wide but shallow lake style of content. This way when the battle/story content dies down I can chill with friends in game doing other fun activities.
    Last edited by Wrecktangle; 2019-06-28 at 01:33 AM.

  17. #597
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    FFXIV has fewer decisions like that, aside from ST vs AoE, but it still feels a lot more satisfying to use the abilities and combos than it does in WoW with it's 2 button rotations.
    That may feel more satisfying to you, but to me it's just mind-numbing to press the same buttons in the same order in every fight. Like as long as you don't fuck up your rotation, every encounter literally feels like Groundhog Day and that's the feeling that contributed the most to me losing all interest in the game.
    And also yes, heavy button bloat probably contributes to sameness too, like every melee rolls through 2-3 combos, has some buff to maintain, some DoT to maintain, some job gimmick with 60-90s build up and so on.
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  18. #598
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    That may feel more satisfying to you, but to me it's just mind-numbing to press the same buttons in the same order in every fight. Like as long as you don't fuck up your rotation, every encounter literally feels like Groundhog Day and that's the feeling that contributed the most to me losing all interest in the game.
    And also yes, heavy button bloat probably contributes to sameness too, like every melee rolls through 2-3 combos, has some buff to maintain, some DoT to maintain, some job gimmick with 60-90s build up and so on.
    You act like that isn't a lot of WoW, except you generally end up spamming one button excessively in wow.

    A few wow specs have more reactionary things, but a lot of them are 3-4 button rotations with cds, and none of them really look that impressive for the most part. I used to love wow but they really killed the fun of classes in the last few expansions.

    That said Dancer may be more up your alley, less buttons overall but much more reactionary.

  19. #599
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    That may feel more satisfying to you, but to me it's just mind-numbing to press the same buttons in the same order in every fight. Like as long as you don't fuck up your rotation, every encounter literally feels like Groundhog Day and that's the feeling that contributed the most to me losing all interest in the game.
    And also yes, heavy button bloat probably contributes to sameness too, like every melee rolls through 2-3 combos, has some buff to maintain, some DoT to maintain, some job gimmick with 60-90s build up and so on.
    Isnt WoW the same. Spam 2-3 buttons, wait for procs, wait for bloodlust, save CDs for certain phases. I fall asleep while raiding in both games, but WoW makes me fall asleep even when im not raiding. I still dont get Sylvanas' reason for burning the tree, its not compelling enough.

    Now... if FFXIV would give PC players the same QoL WoW has, omg that would be heaven. All those dialogue boxes holy crap... i just want game play to be more "fluid".

  20. #600
    None gated flight - Debatable. You technically are gated to finishing the zone in its entirety before you can even fly in it. Then most of the time flying in the empty zones offers very little tangible reward/gameplay. This is harder for me to debate because I actually don't like flying. I think it ruins games tbh.
    In the future when citing stuff like this, try to offer some examples or insight
    Sure.

    "Do Pathfinder 1 then sit and wait a year to finish it and then fly"

    F....THAT.

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