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  1. #601
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    You act like that isn't a lot of WoW, except you generally end up spamming one button excessively in wow.

    A few wow specs have more reactionary things, but a lot of them are 3-4 button rotations with cds, and none of them really look that impressive for the most part. I used to love wow but they really killed the fun of classes in the last few expansions.

    That said Dancer may be more up your alley, less buttons overall but much more reactionary.
    I don't know how it is now, last time I played WoW was in ToS as shadow priest and let's just say there's nothing comparable in FFXIV.
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  2. #602
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    I don't know how it is now, last time I played WoW was in ToS as shadow priest and let's just say there's nothing comparable in FFXIV.
    Shadow priest is like the one DPS spec, hell, any spec I like in WoW. They got a lot right with that ONE spec.

  3. #603
    While I agree that jobs play the same, i can say AT LEAST THEY WORK NICE. Which is much more you can say about any wow class right now.

  4. #604
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    That may feel more satisfying to you, but to me it's just mind-numbing to press the same buttons in the same order in every fight. Like as long as you don't fuck up your rotation, every encounter literally feels like Groundhog Day and that's the feeling that contributed the most to me losing all interest in the game.
    And also yes, heavy button bloat probably contributes to sameness too, like every melee rolls through 2-3 combos, has some buff to maintain, some DoT to maintain, some job gimmick with 60-90s build up and so on.
    I don't really see how WoW is THAT much different. The only thing I can put my finger on is that in WoW the decision making process is a little more dynamic, simply because the procs don't occur at the same time every time, whereas FFXIV is more static due to the combos. But still, in WoW, you're using so few buttons you're spamming the same attacks over and over in a row, with a random proc to hit something else every once and a while. So you still end up hitting the same 2-4 buttons over and over and over.....the order just changes a little bit every now and then.

    Also, the same combos over and over in FFXIV is only true for the melee classes. The ranged DPS/ casters all have some kind of proc mechanic that plays into their rotation and changes things up.

    I'm not debating that the two systems are different, there's no arguing that they ARE different, I'm just saying that they aren't THAT different to the point where one can be considered amazing and the other is trash, or some other similar grading scale where one passes and one fails.

    Liking one over the other is subjective though, so to each their own I suppose.

  5. #605
    I loved the sneer at the chocobo "Turbo chicken"

    OH

    You mean the pet that fights, heals, tanks and is also a mount? That has its own talent tree?

    Gee..hows that water strider working out for you..you know, the one that used to walk on water but now needs special equipment to do what it used to do by default before Blizzard gutted it?

  6. #606
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post

    You're being disrespectful. WoW has plenty of issues. Lots of them in fact, but you're discounting so many features that changed the game:
    [LIST][*]Flex Raiding[*]Cross Realm Zone/Sharding[*]Mythic Plus[*]Collections[*]Level Scaling
    Im not sure what this list has to do with high effort content, but you literaly proved me right and im not sure how blizzard is able to trap you so easily with their low effort lol.
    [*]Flex Raiding Not content, just let you play the same raids with any number of players, no effort what so ever to bring you anything new.
    [*]Cross Realm Zone/Sharding most people think its shit, it worked like shit for a while too. Not content. FF14 does this better now, it doesent attempt to fill your world with players from other realm to fake being more alive. You visit and people visit realm at their choice. FF14 use other ways to make people go around the world, which always look more alive then wow did before cross realm random thing.
    [*]Mythic Plus Not content, literally running the same place with moar damage and stuff to increase difficulty.
    [*]Collections Pretty much the only thing that matters in wow now. The collection system itself is not content, but its useful for the only real content.
    [*]Level Scaling Not content.

    So on your list the only thing you can show for as positive side content is, collections. For every collections and pet battle, side content amounts to either nothing or absolute trash like garrison or world pvp insentive that never works.
    Last edited by minteK917; 2019-06-28 at 08:51 AM.

  7. #607
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshingo View Post
    The problem classes of Dragoon, Machinist, and Ninja (in terms of damage) are being all fixed with the expansion.
    I'm not so sure to be honest. They added Dancer and left Trick Attack in which may end up forcing another meta. It's too soon to tell, but I'll wait before drawing any c

    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    Im not sure what this list has to do with high effort content, but you literaly proved me right and im not sure how blizzard is able to trap you so easily with their low effort lol.

    Flex Raiding Not content, just let you play the same raids with any number of players, no effort what so ever to bring you anything new.

    Cross Realm Zone/Sharding most people think its shit, it worked like shit for a while too. Not content. FF14 does this better now, it doesent attempt to fill your world with players from other realm to fake being more alive. You visit and people visit realm at their choice. FF14 use other ways to make people go around the world, which always look more alive then wow did before cross realm random thing.

    Mythic Plus Not content, literally running the same place with moar damage and stuff to increase difficulty.

    Collections Pretty much the only thing that matters in wow now. The collection system itself is not content, but its useful for the only real content.

    Level Scaling Not content.

    So on your list the only thing you can show for as positive side content is, collections. For every collections and pet battle, side content amounts to either nothing or absolute trash like garrison or world pvp insentive that never works.
    My apologies - I thought the focus of your post was:

    Wow always implement the minimal effort of every system imaginable.
    Re-reading it though you did focus more on content whereas I wanted to draw attention to their systems. I still very firmly believe that they've done tremendous work on innovating systems design. They don't always get it right and sometimes they get it horrifically wrong, but there were things they did that seemed impossible at the time or that changed the game immensely and they do deserve credit for that.

    Also, I'm not even subbed to WoW right now. I'm not trapped or a fanboy or anything silly. I play and like both games. I'm just capable of objectively analyzing the things they do right and the things they do wrong.

    What exactly qualifies as low effort content? In either game? The only example in WoW you gave was Glyphs which are more a system than content.

  8. #608
    Quote Originally Posted by Aehl View Post
    WOWs graphics are 15 years old. Comparable to FF 14?.
    Other than your longass rant that makes you come out as a crazy fanatic, you're comparing classic WoW with FFXIV, not BFA with updated graphics. Agree to disagree I guess, I am not even closely as invested as you are to try and defend a point that hard nor care really, said what I thought of the game after hitting 70.


    Also @Yoshingo, no, the hardest difficulty is not even comparable to WoWs harder difficulty. Don't gimme that normal crap rofl.

  9. #609
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I'm not debating that the two systems are different, there's no arguing that they ARE different, I'm just saying that they aren't THAT different to the point where one can be considered amazing and the other is trash, or some other similar grading scale where one passes and one fails.
    I'm not calling WoW amaizing, I just said that even now it has more depth compared to FFXIV. I think that you could have easily macroed FFXIV rotations into one button if the game allowed that. That's antipode of depth for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  10. #610
    Quote Originally Posted by Kapaya View Post
    Also @Yoshingo, no, the hardest difficulty is not even comparable to WoWs harder difficulty. Don't gimme that normal crap rofl.
    Okay rofl.

    I love how you think raids in Warcraft are some super difficult thing, as if everything outside of the last few bosses on Mythic aren't steam rolled the second the raids launch.

  11. #611
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    I'm not calling WoW amaizing, I just said that even now it has more depth compared to FFXIV. I think that you could have easily macroed FFXIV rotations into one button if the game allowed that. That's antipode of depth for me.
    There are some classes that are like that. But I'd argue most are not. You're painting with a very broad brush.

  12. #612
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    What exactly qualifies as low effort content? In either game? The only example in WoW you gave was Glyphs which are more a system than content.
    Low effort, lazy, bare minimum is just code for something someone doesn't like. It's a lazy argument for someone who really doesn't want to argue in good faith or actually has a point to argue from. If so, they would have made some valid points instead of saying they always implement the minimal effort.

  13. #613
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    There are some classes that are like that. But I'd argue most are not. You're painting with a very broad brush.
    Maybe you're right, the only extensive experience I have is on my only 70 job - DRG, I've played several others to 50+, but with shitty leveling this game has it was very boring experience. I wish it used system from other mainline games with jobs, where your character level and job level are separated, allowing you to quickly catch up.
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  14. #614
    See this video https://youtu.be/6N6Lu2t6hOQ

    It has anything you need to see how FFXIV is compared to WoW

  15. #615
    Titan Sorrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vitor210 View Post
    See this video https://youtu.be/6N6Lu2t6hOQ

    It has anything you need to see how FFXIV is compared to WoW
    Honestly it just seems ffxiv is not his kinda game

  16. #616
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    I'm not calling WoW amaizing, I just said that even now it has more depth compared to FFXIV. I think that you could have easily macroed FFXIV rotations into one button if the game allowed that. That's antipode of depth for me.
    You can macro everything in one button, and it doesn't / didn't even work at level 50 the way you think it would when I tried it for the first time several years ago.

    Both games either follow strict rotations or priorities and procs depending on the class, I see absolutely no benefit over the other.
    The only thing I'd say FFXIV suffers from is button-bloat.
    But Dragoon for example saw an improvement for that in Shadowbringers, so I don't think that's true anymore either.

    Overall however, what I can tell from class changes over the years, is that FFXIV does a much better job at listening to people when it comes to class design... and that's already a big fat plus. In my opinion, WoW Class Devs have absolutely no idea what they are doing.

    btw:

    lul @ the dude who basically said FFXIV raids are not fun because there is no trash. Not only is it not true (the no trash part), but trash is certainly not what makes WoW raids fun to play, in fact it's the thing that is the most tedious and most boring about them.
    Either way, it doesn't need trash to show off it's vastly superior raid-enviroment design compared to WoW.
    If people think that WoW raids are fun to look at and be in for anything other than the fights themselves, they are nuts.

    I wish it weren't so btw. Because I prefer WoW's combat system due to how "fast" and responsive it is too - but the class designers, and for a lack of a better word, "ugly" raids killed the game for me.
    And on top of that, if you have to rely on flex-raids, the fights aren't even fun anymore. Flex raids are a disaster from a balance perspective.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2019-06-30 at 12:00 PM.

  17. #617
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    You can macro everything in one button, and it doesn't / didn't even work at level 50 the way you think it would when I tried it for the first time several years ago.
    That's why I specified "if the game allowed that". Of course they're not going to make botting easier.
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  18. #618
    Dreadlord Pigglix's Avatar
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    I am new on FF 14, at lvl 30 and i dont know why people hyped and praised the game so much, "wow killer", "game did everything right" , i mean....sure..the landscape is somewhat prettier, but sometimes i feel like the character with some gear dosent blend well with the landscape.

    My biggest gripe with FF 14 so far is the god awful 2.5 gcd and some useless abilities that serves no purpose at all (blizzard II dont even root anymore, so why woulld i have on my bars? Seriously?). i have fear of the ability bloat, one of the things i hated about swtor was exactly that back in the day, i hope i dont find that on FF 14 as a black mage at least.

    Another thing that pisses the shit out of me, is the lack of visuals to indicate when you get a proc. omg your thunder dot procced a free thunder spell. Where's the warning? Waayyy down there at the bars instead of giving us something more...reliable...like idk, fingers of frost warning when you get the proc? You know, something more visual to let you know you got the proc?

    Dont get me wrong, to me FF 14 is fun, im having alot fun exploring and with the story quest, but at least as of now, the game lack so many of the QoL changes that WoW did and keep doing, i am not really seeing all the hype about the game or being the "god sent mmo that is mile ahead of WoW"

    I hope the pace change once i get more levels, because it almost making me throw my keyboard at the window when i get a free instant spell and then cant go back to cast my channeling spells because im locked on the GCD.

  19. #619
    Quote Originally Posted by Pigglix View Post
    I am new on FF 14, at lvl 30 and i dont know why people hyped and praised the game so much, "wow killer", "game did everything right" , i mean....sure..the landscape is somewhat prettier, but sometimes i feel like the character with some gear dosent blend well with the landscape.

    My biggest gripe with FF 14 so far is the god awful 2.5 gcd and some useless abilities that serves no purpose at all (blizzard II dont even root anymore, so why woulld i have on my bars? Seriously?). i have fear of the ability bloat, one of the things i hated about swtor was exactly that back in the day, i hope i dont find that on FF 14 as a black mage at least.

    Another thing that pisses the shit out of me, is the lack of visuals to indicate when you get a proc. omg your thunder dot procced a free thunder spell. Where's the warning? Waayyy down there at the bars instead of giving us something more...reliable...like idk, fingers of frost warning when you get the proc? You know, something more visual to let you know you got the proc?

    Dont get me wrong, to me FF 14 is fun, im having alot fun exploring and with the story quest, but at least as of now, the game lack so many of the QoL changes that WoW did and keep doing, i am not really seeing all the hype about the game or being the "god sent mmo that is mile ahead of WoW"

    I hope the pace change once i get more levels, because it almost making me throw my keyboard at the window when i get a free instant spell and then cant go back to cast my channeling spells because im locked on the GCD.
    Black mage youll always have to deal with high GCD. But most of your rotation is stuff that takes equal or longer to cast to the GCD. Im not sure it really matters in the end, just take the rotation slow BM has a very structured and slow rotation of big nukes with big numbers. At level 30 you def dont have the spells youll be using most like Fire 4.

  20. #620
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshingo View Post
    Okay rofl.

    I love how you think raids in Warcraft are some super difficult thing, as if everything outside of the last few bosses on Mythic aren't steam rolled the second the raids launch.
    I mean, given that Savage Raids in XIV are cleared literally within 24 hours of them releasing, and the two Ultimate Trials were cleared within days, I'd still say that Mythic Raids in WoW have the leg up in terms of difficulty, given that even the easier Tiers tend to, on average ,take at-least one full week to clear, and fights like Kil'Jaeden or Uu'nat can take two to three.

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