WoW players that switched to FFXIV, I need your opinions

[Bullettime]

I know people complain in WoW about the removal of abilities, and I somewhat agree that WoW went too far.

Just unlocked Ninja and holy hell looking at my spell book, looks like massive ability bloat.

Maybe I'm wrong, and it will actually be quite simple once everything is unlocked one by one, but for the moment it looks like dps rotations have a bit too many buttons. Maybe a lot of what I'm looking at is junk and not used.

In the case of NIN, it's not actually that bad when you start breaking down the mechanics.

One thing I'll argue with FF14 isn't that there's too many abilities, there's just too many fucking cooldowns that have to be stacked together. So many jobs are just chock full of mechanics that are only mildly interesting and they have super low individual value with their true value coming from lining them up and chaining them into a single burst window and it takes away a lot of the cool feeling of the buttons themselves.

Like with NIN, it's similar to MCH in that it works on 60 second cycles. The core rotation is decently satisfying between cycles but skills like Kassatsu, Dream Within a Dream, Duality, and TCJ are basically worth fuck all unless you line them all up into the Trick Attack window.

I could do a similar breakdown for most DPS jobs. The core rotations aren't that bloated but there's just too many shitty cooldowns that you have to juggle and stack or your DPS falls off a cliff. If you run with a NIN in your party, the shit just gets even worse.

[Kazgrel]

While it is nice that you do gain meaningful abilities as you level, I wish they would restructure some of it, as some jobs can feel woefully incomplete for long stretches of their leveling.

What, you didn’t like putting up Heavy Thrust and spamming Impulse Drive for until level 26(ish)?

Lancer (Dragoon) is one of the most boring classes at low level in any MMO I’ve ever played.

[Katchii]

While it is nice that you do gain meaningful abilities as you level, I wish they would restructure some of it, as some jobs can feel woefully incomplete for long stretches of their leveling.

Absolutely agreed. A lot of classes feel incredibly empty for huge portions of the leveling. Dark Knight for example feels like a shell of itself until level ~66, which is awful.

What, you didn’t like putting up Heavy Thrust and spamming Impulse Drive for until level 26(ish)?

Lancer (Dragoon) is one of the most boring classes at low level in any MMO I’ve ever played.

A lot of the jobs in FFXIV feel this way, but yeah...LNC/DRG was one of the worst offenders. Tanks are pretty awful too though.

[Kazgrel]

Absolutely agreed. A lot of classes feel incredibly empty for huge portions of the leveling. Dark Knight for example feels like a shell of itself until level ~66, which is awful.



A lot of the jobs in FFXIV feel this way, but yeah...LNC/DRG was one of the worst offenders. Tanks are pretty awful too though.

Not helping tanks is the lack of a full enmity combo and tank stance. Thankfully the level range where those are missing is fairly small, but for legit new tanks getting Sastasha or Copperbelt with a downsynced RDM...it’s gonna be a rough time holding things.

[Katchii]

Not helping tanks is the lack of a full enmity combo and tank stance. Thankfully the level range where those are missing is fairly small, but for legit new tanks getting Sastasha or Copperbelt with a downsynced RDM...it’s gonna be a rough time holding things.

I can see how a new tank who doesn't understand how the mechanics all work would have a hard time, but the tanks all have the necessary tools to hold aggro by the time they enter their first dungeon...there just aren't many tools and it gets super boring using the same ability over and over.

[Kazgrel]

I can see how a new tank who doesn't understand how the mechanics all work would have a hard time, but the tanks all have the necessary tools to hold aggro by the time they enter their first dungeon...there just aren't many tools and it gets super boring using the same ability over and over.

True. They also significantly buffed enmity on the base aoes for tanks at some point in this xpac, so that helped too.

Early game toolkit is an area where WoW shines brightly over XIV (Note: I last leveled up new characters on WoW as of WoD).

[Eleccybubb]

Not helping tanks is the lack of a full enmity combo and tank stance. Thankfully the level range where those are missing is fairly small, but for legit new tanks getting Sastasha or Copperbelt with a downsynced RDM...it’s gonna be a rough time holding things.

Indeed.

What GLA and MRD needs is a damn low level emnity buff that evolves into Defiance/Shield Oath at 30.

And when synced below 30 it becomes those buffs.

[Melsiren]

I can say, that MRD/ low WAR feels worse in SB than it did in HW, the new Berserk, removal of mercy stroke, Blood Bath and maim doing slashing down rather than damage up. Took away what little Joy I had in the job at low levels.

[Sorrior]

I can say, that MRD/ low WAR feels worse in SB than it did in HW, the new Berserk, removal of mercy stroke, Blood Bath and maim doing slashing down rather than damage up. Took away what little Joy I had in the job at low levels.

Honestly not a fan kf tbe sb changes in general.. actually pushed me away from the game more then a bit

[Wrecktangle]

While it is nice that you do gain meaningful abilities as you level, I wish they would restructure some of it, as some jobs can feel woefully incomplete for long stretches of their leveling.

For sure. When I did my PLD redesign one of the main tenets was changing the skill curve in that I front loaded skills much earlier in acquisition and then had skills later on supplement existing ideas/themes or improve them.

The other major tenet was reducing button bloat while increasing complexity.

[Katchii]

True. They also significantly buffed enmity on the base aoes for tanks at some point in this xpac, so that helped too.

Early game toolkit is an area where WoW shines brightly over XIV (Note: I last leveled up new characters on WoW as of WoD).

WoW now suffers from the exact opposite problem FFXIV has, each class only has like 5 abilities they use in any frequency. Most have a core ~3 abilities, with 1-2 cooldowns and procs that let you use one of the core abilities more often and hit harder. Because of this, leveling in WoW feels just as empty as in FFXIV until you get the full tool kit, which can be 40+ levels into it.

[Rogalicus]

Classes are much more engaging to play in WoW than they were in Classic, honestly.

Why are you comparing to Classic instead of WotLK-MoP period?

[Rogalicus]

That's not *really* an answer, but ok. It's generally because those are the eras that people romanticize the most. Anyway, I really don't recall having a glut of interesting buttons to press - especially while leveling - during WotLK, either.

Not that it really matters because "more buttons" isn't a positive in any of itself anyway. I just don't really see where the complaint that WoW "just now got this problem" stems from, or in which era WoW didn't have "this problem".

You don't recall using many buttons during leveling because leveling content was heavily nerfed starting from WotLK and it was going worse and worse in every expansion since then due to power creep. At cap many classes were much more interesting than anything in FFXIV and it peaked in MoP where class design was at its' best.

[Deleted]

I didnt survive in that game after walking around in the city
1 hour taking portal up portal down and having to repeat and get lost. Coming from a veteran rpg player... Either I became very stpudid or that start of a game killed it for me. Cba to try again.

Not to mention the profund hate I have for korean graphics. Where boys look like girls, girls look like dolls...and the child characters etc. To kinky for me.
Huge boobs and blonde hairs. Fck that sht

[Wrecktangle]

Classes are much more engaging to play in WoW than they were in Classic, honestly. Especially during the leveling process. It's confusing to me to hear complaints like that because I wonder which period of the game they think was better with regards to "more buttons that you use regularly".

Speaking strictly personally here from the POV of a Ret Paladin -> from classic to current:

There are elements of the spec that I miss from previous iterations, but overall the spec is considerably more engaging to play now.

• Classic Paladin -> Really don't miss any elements here, except maybe the concept of Judgment consuming a seals effect to do a bigger effect.
• BC Paladin -> I missed most of BC so no input here.
• WotLK Paladin -> I miss the proc that allowed Divine Storm to be used in ST rotations. I also missed Righteous Vengeance dot rolling. I miss Seal of Blood/Martyr. I liked the concept of hurting myself to deal more damage because I had tools to offset it as well.
• Cata Paladin -> I did not like Holy Power or Inquisition. I don't like bland maintenance buffs unless they impact gameplay in a non-numerical fashion.
• MoP Paladin -> Skipped beginning of MoP - not much insight here. The pacing of Ret was really solid though through SOO.
• WoD Paladin -> One of the best playing iterations IMO. Divine Storm and Final Verdict and Seraphim all cool and fun interactions. I sincerely miss FV all the time. Seraphim wasn't my favorite, but it had decent gameplay.
• Legion Paladin -> I quite liked Divine Storm Tornados and a 30s Wake of Ashes generator. I didn't care for the Judgement treatment arms copy/paste stuff, but Divine Hammer and Crusade were very cool. I was also a really big fan of Blade of Justice aesthetically. Some Legiondaries had really cool effects, cape, ring, bracers, etc. had neat interactions.
• BFA Paladin -> Glad to have Hammer of Wrath back (bleh talent), and the Legendary cape from Legion makes a return as a talent, albeit in a less versatile form.

So - in all I have to say WoD Ret was my personal favorite. it had a good number of buttons and procs (arguably too many procs), but the gameplay was always fun (shame the expac wasn't).

I'd probably polish up the talent tree to find a way to get these effects back:

• Legion's Divine Hammers
• WoD Final Verdict
• Legion's Divine Storm Tornados
• WoD/WotLK's Divine Storm procs in ST

[Katchii]

I'm a little perplexed as to why people act as if WoW has "Gained" this "Problem" in this regard. (It's even worse when they suggest that somehow it was better in "the old days".)

Classes are much more engaging to play in WoW than they were in Classic, honestly. Especially during the leveling process. It's confusing to me to hear complaints like that because I wonder which period of the game they think was better with regards to "more buttons that you use regularly".

For some classes the few buttons and the game play can be fun, but not all of them, not long term anyway....not for me anyway. Deeper game play with fewer buttons sounds amazing, and actually works well for the most part, but once you've got the skills down, it just gets boring IMO. But that's the same for most tab target MMO games, not just WoW or FFXIV. I say "now" because it's here, right now and can be discussed easily and it's the most pruned we've ever been. That doesn't mean the issue didn't exist before, it's just "worse" now. It started in WoD, really, and has gotten "worse" ever since.

I say "problem" but that's my bias speaking, it can be a problem or feature or advantage...whatever depending on your point of view. And as I said, this problem presents itself more apparently on some classes than on others. My experience is limited to Veng DH, Guardian Druid, Demonology Warlock and Ret Paladin....but all of them stop being "engaging" to me in combat REALLY quickly because of how easy the rotation/ priority is. That said, that may also just be an artifact of how mundane and boring BfA is after the first play through on each faction. It's hard to be engaged when you don't care about the content.

I also just find it boring when classes see very little if any change in game play for LONG periods of time and WoW has that worse now than it's ever had because of how they've pruned abilities. There are stretches of 10+ levels where you get nothing.

[Melsiren]

Speaking strictly personally here from the POV of a Ret Paladin -> from classic to current:

There are elements of the spec that I miss from previous iterations, but overall the spec is considerably more engaging to play now.

• Classic Paladin -> Really don't miss any elements here, except maybe the concept of Judgment consuming a seals effect to do a bigger effect.
• BC Paladin -> I missed most of BC so no input here.
• WotLK Paladin -> I miss the proc that allowed Divine Storm to be used in ST rotations. I also missed Righteous Vengeance dot rolling. I miss Seal of Blood/Martyr. I liked the concept of hurting myself to deal more damage because I had tools to offset it as well.
• Cata Paladin -> I did not like Holy Power or Inquisition. I don't like bland maintenance buffs unless they impact gameplay in a non-numerical fashion.
• MoP Paladin -> Skipped beginning of MoP - not much insight here. The pacing of Ret was really solid though through SOO.
• WoD Paladin -> One of the best playing iterations IMO. Divine Storm and Final Verdict and Seraphim all cool and fun interactions. I sincerely miss FV all the time. Seraphim wasn't my favorite, but it had decent gameplay.
• Legion Paladin -> I quite liked Divine Storm Tornados and a 30s Wake of Ashes generator. I didn't care for the Judgement treatment arms copy/paste stuff, but Divine Hammer and Crusade were very cool. I was also a really big fan of Blade of Justice aesthetically. Some Legiondaries had really cool effects, cape, ring, bracers, etc. had neat interactions.
• BFA Paladin -> Glad to have Hammer of Wrath back (bleh talent), and the Legendary cape from Legion makes a return as a talent, albeit in a less versatile form.

So - in all I have to say WoD Ret was my personal favorite. it had a good number of buttons and procs (arguably too many procs), but the gameplay was always fun (shame the expac wasn't).

I'd probably polish up the talent tree to find a way to get these effects back:

• Legion's Divine Hammers
• WoD Final Verdict
• Legion's Divine Storm Tornados
• WoD/WotLK's Divine Storm procs in ST

In general most specs felt great (to me) from MoP to WoD. I would do a more in depth analysis, but I am currently on mobile.

MoP and early WoD Prot Pally is the most fun I ever had with the spec.

WoD Blood DK and Sub Rogue were great.

[Playintrafic]

I switch one for the other once I get bored.. They're completely different games for me and give me completely different experiences.

For some reason I can't play both at the same time though

I play both. Once I get bored with wow or get to a point where I'm just raid logging, I mainly play ffxiv..

I play it more casually. Not in a rush to endgame raiding, which is what wow is all about.

[Xandrigity]

I just picked up ffxiv taking a pause from wow I’m so bored. I’m sure I’ll be back with new content coming out. Started a arcaniat but likely will change to conjurer and make a white mage

[madara11203]

maybe try ast I find the card system fun