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  1. #1
    Herald of the Titans Lotus Victoria's Avatar
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    Cuphead Reignites the “Game Journalists Should Be Good at Games” Debate

    Mostly everyone who has played CUPHEAD has mentioned its high level of difficulty. A side-scrolling run and gun game, it occupies a genre built to challenge the player, throwing waves of enemies at them and forcing them to think on their toes. It's a game that requires the player to be fully engaged with it, exhibiting quick reaction times and multi-tasking between jumping across platforms, avoiding both the enemies and their gunfire.

    A video uploaded by the tech website VentureBeat shows one of its employees struggling to do just that. Taken from Cuphead's Gamescom 2017 demo, the video sees GamesBeat lead writer Dean Takahashi struggling with just about everything the game throws at him: he experiences difficulty in attempting to jump onto a high platform in the opening tutorial; he routinely bumps into enemies running towards him; he falls down a hole to his death. The resulting footage is hilarious, playing out like a 26-minute slapstick comedy sketch in which poor Cuphead is forced to meet his demise over and over again
    Font: http://www.gamerevolution.com/featur...o8gUtDdWOCO.99

    Video in Question:


    So, what do you think? Should Video-Game Journalists and Reviewers be good at video-games?


  2. #2
    I don't think game reviewers need to be good at games per se, but they should be upfront about their skill level. Like, if you know a reviewer sucks, and they breeze through a game easily, you can reasonably infer if you're good at games that the game will likely not have a satisfying level of difficulty for you. It's useful information to the consumer.

    However, I do think reviewers should finish games when applicable, especially story based games, so you may need a minimum level of proficiency to do that.

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer MrPaladinGuy's Avatar
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    They need to be able to adapt, or at least not record themselves playing like they've never held a controller before.




    Come on, you knew this video was going to get posted. Granted, it looks like the Nvidia footage is from the PC version.
    Last edited by MrPaladinGuy; 2017-09-06 at 08:45 PM. Reason: a word
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  4. #4
    Don't care how good a journalist is at games until they start using a games difficulty as a negative point in reviews. Both Sonic Mania and Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze had this happen as well as Ori and this game won't be any different.

    Meanwhile Dark Souls gets praised for it's difficulty when it's actually not even that hard by these same outlets.

    Just because you suck at 2D platformers doesn't mean the game is worse, get someone good to review them or don't at all if you can't handle them.

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer MrPaladinGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Meanwhile Dark Souls gets praised for it's difficulty when it's actually not even that hard by these same outlets.
    Was playing Diablo 3 on XB1 last week (long story), teenager who said he's been playing games for ages swore the 30 minutes he played of Dark Souls 2 was the hardest thing he's ever attempted and it was the hardest game ever made.

    I just ignored the comment.
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  6. #6
    I don't think anyone reasonably expects them to be experts at every game they play (though reviewers should absolutely be very familiar with the genre at the very least), especially games that they're likely getting their hands on for the first/second time.

    But basic competency isn't too much to ask. Literally everything in that tutorial stage is bog-standard shit for platformers and has been for decades. If they're having that much trouble with basic shit, it's time to ask whether or not they can have a relevant, informed, meaningful opinion on games proper.

    Dean's more an industry guy vs. a product guy, and his endless photo-album of himself that he loves to insert into any article he writes is a good example of this. Not to mention Gamesbeat as a whole is all over the bloody place, half the time they're trying to be a more buttoned up, business focused outlet and the other half they're trying to jump on the Kotaku-style train. They need to find an angle and stick with it already, they can't have it both ways.



    And I have to include this because it's too funny not to. Again, nobody is reasonably expecting MLG 360 noscopes out of gaming media, but a basic level of competency isn't asking too much. I'm bloody awful at shooters with a gamepad, but even I'm embarrassed by the complete and total lack of competency with stuff like basic movement and weapon switching in that video. Just as I am with Deans failure to grasp a concept as simple as a jump-dash for damn near a full minute, despite literal written instructions on the screen.

  7. #7
    I don't think anyone expects a journalist to be a pro gamer but when a journalist fails to comprehend how a game works on a very basic level and then criticize the game for their incompetence is just awful. If I were the developer of Cuphead I'd be very angry at this Dean guy. By showing this and then have to guts to call the game unfair because you're bad might give the game bad press or turn potential buyers away from the game.

    A reviewer should critique the game from a customer point of view. But how are you supposed to do that when you can't understand the most basic things in a video game.

  8. #8
    Most reviewers are honest about their skill level when reviewing a game. Or perhaps I just don't pay attention to shitty reviewers. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  9. #9
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    I think this kind of goes hand in hand with the thread talking about how games have become so casual in terms of their target audience that it really shows who the core gamer veterans are as well as the real casuals. I have been gaming for 25 years and willingly admit that I can't compete with a lot of gamer's skill wise, but that Polygon Doom video just shows that any idiot can get a job as a game reviewer. Developers in particular, should be capable of playing the games they produce at an above average level, and I see quite a few that can't. I know that pretty well the entire dev team at Piranha Games in Vancouver, developers of the PvP MechWarrior Online game, are absolutely terrible at the game. They are so bad and have such a massive disdain for their players that one of the lead developers had a knockdown mechanic removed during open beta because GoonSquad decided to continually knock him down during a match. Didn't help that he was awful at the game too. It makes me happy when a developer is willing to go the extra mile to make their game challenging right from the get go, rather than easy mode.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Meanwhile Dark Souls gets praised for it's difficulty when it's actually not even that hard by these same outlets.
    What I think is hilarious is how everything with even a modicum of difficulty is called/compared to Dark Souls.
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  11. #11
    What gets me about these two videos is...one is a platformer and the other is an FPS.
    The most typical of game genres that you can think of...

    It's not like they're asked to play some advanced space flightsim with new groundbreaking mechanics or whatever...it's the most basic of basic things.
    Last edited by glowzone; 2017-09-06 at 08:56 PM.

  12. #12
    Gaming journalists should be good enough to legit play any game they're reviewing. If you're seeing the game through the eyes of whats effectively a 2 year old its hard to have any sort of legitimate opinion. You don't send a fat guy to do a Ninja Warrior course then ask him to review the whole thing after falling in the first 3 seconds. I suppose a game journalist could watch someone else play the game and then review it, but that kind of defeats the purpose.

  13. #13
    Keep in mind that the guy playing that Cuphead demo is the same guy who gave Mass Effect 1 a negative review because he didn't know you could upgrade your squad abilities and skills until Feros.
    "It's 2013 and I still view the internet on a 560x192 resolution monitor!"

  14. #14
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    Playing a game for 30 minutes and then jotting down your opinions about the game in a blog article isn't "journalism" to begin with.

  15. #15
    Scarab Lord Triggered Fridgekin's Avatar
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    It's like anything else, really. Your proficiency will often curb your view of the product so you're able to identify more meaningful areas of a game to critique which you otherwise could miss if your experience is already in the dumpster because you have a case of, say, stupid fingers while playing an FPS.

    Games can be genuinely bad for various reasons but if the difficulties stem from the player and not the game then that needs to be addressed by either having better reviewing staff who are capable of playing any type of genre with a certain level of skill or to stay in a genre you're comfortable with to provide more accurate feedback.

    If I went and did a review of a Madden NFL game (are those still around?) I'd probably set it on fire for being shit because I never liked the controls but apparently they are (were?) pretty good games so clearly I would not be the right person for this.
    Last edited by Triggered Fridgekin; 2017-09-06 at 09:13 PM.
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  16. #16
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    As someone who's only played racing games on consoles that would be me if you started up Doom. If you asked me to play Doom I'd do it on PC or not at all because of that fact. I think it says more about certain games lack of a decent tutorial to entry level gamers on new platforms than it does about the reviewers and gamers in general. Spend enough time and you will become good at anything through trial and error. A good tutorial guides and eases you into handling yourself comfortably instead of dropping you at the deep end with a single hint on how/what to do. It's a balancing act and an adult probably won't have as much patience as a teenager or child with a shitty or nonexistent tutorial.
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  17. #17
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    You cannot properly review a game if you suck at it.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwack View Post
    As someone who's only played racing games on consoles that would be me if you started up Doom. If you asked me to play Doom I'd do it on PC or not at all because of that fact. I think it says more about certain games lack of a decent tutorial to entry level gamers on new platforms than it does about the reviewers and gamers in general. Spend enough time and you will become good at anything through trial and error. A good tutorial guides and eases you into handling yourself comfortably instead of dropping you at the deep end with a single hint on how/what to do. It's a balancing act and an adult probably won't have as much patience as a teenager or child with a shitty or nonexistent tutorial.
    The tutorials are fine.

    Remember, these people are gaming media, having experience with a diverse set of games and being familiar with a variety of genres is expected for them to do their jobs. Especially if they're going to be sent to events to preview a variety of games.

    I can't think of another industry where previews/reviews would be handled by people so inept at the products they're writing about, to be honest. I surely wouldn't want a car reviewer who could barely figure out how to turn a car on and put it in gear previewing a new car, that would entirely undermine anything that they'd have to say about it because I'd be left wondering if they even know how to drive a car in the first place.

    For consumers and shit like you? That's totally fine if you want to stick to a single genre, you don't have any reason to branch out and play games you may not be interested in. But for gaming media? Unacceptable, unless you're writing for a niche site that only covers a specific topic (sports games, racing simulators etc.). And Dean doesn't fit that bill at all.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    The tutorials are fine.

    Remember, these people are gaming media, having experience with a diverse set of games and being familiar with a variety of genres is expected for them to do their jobs. Especially if they're going to be sent to events to preview a variety of games.

    I can't think of another industry where previews/reviews would be handled by people so inept at the products they're writing about, to be honest. I surely wouldn't want a car reviewer who could barely figure out how to turn a car on and put it in gear previewing a new car, that would entirely undermine anything that they'd have to say about it because I'd be left wondering if they even know how to drive a car in the first place.

    For consumers and shit like you? That's totally fine if you want to stick to a single genre, you don't have any reason to branch out and play games you may not be interested in. But for gaming media? Unacceptable, unless you're writing for a niche site that only covers a specific topic (sports games, racing simulators etc.). And Dean doesn't fit that bill at all.
    I don't expect a taxi driver to suddenly drive a bus without incidents. Most tutorials are very bare bones and couple it with an unfamiliar genre/platform it's a recipe for disaster and a tall order for anybody no matter the mountain of experience they may have in other genres or platforms. There's also the other issue of firsthand impressions versus the in-depth analysis of what a game has to offer by playing through it's content. How long you expect a game journalist to spend on a given game varies from person to person and there's no established guidelines for vidja journalism. Should they go from cover to cover as you would a book and 100% the game or how many playthroughs of a roguelite is enough to form an insightful opinion? Many opt for the easy click-bait joining whatever circle-jerk is happening already
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwack View Post
    I don't expect a taxi driver to suddenly drive a bus without incidents.
    This is more akin to asking a taxi driver to drive a Uhaul. I wouldn't expect him to drive it perfectly, but I absolutely expect him to be able to quickly figure out how to turn it on, put it in gear, and get it out on the road without running into everything along the way. Shit, I've done that before and I don't drive for a living.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwack View Post
    Most tutorials are very bare bones and couple it with an unfamiliar genre/platform it's a recipe for disaster and a tall order for anybody no matter the mountain of experience they may have in other genres or platforms.
    Watch the video. Dean struggles with basic concepts like jump-dashing, that have been bog-standard in platformers for decades, even with the game literally having a written description of how to do one on screen. This is just him failing miserably at what anyone who plays platformers every once in a while (which honestly, if you're in gaming media and are frequently previewing games you should be) should be able to do in their sleep.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwack View Post
    There's also the other issue of firsthand impressions versus the in-depth analysis of what a game has to offer by playing through it's content.
    Again, nobody is expecting Dean, or any media getting what may be their first hand-on with a game to be excellent at the games. Nobody is expecting them to do flawless playthroughs of the demo. But this has to do with basic competency - anyone previewing games professionally at trade shows, especially if they've spent decades playing and writing about games, should be able to play through that tutorial very easily without a single issue. I'll grant a bit more leeway for the first level, but even then he's repeatedly dying to shit that he should have figured out almost instantly (like the fact that you don't jump on enemies, but instead shoot them).

    Again, this is all bog-standard shit. There is no excuse for failing this bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwack View Post
    How long you expect a game journalist to spend on a given game varies from person to person and there's no established guidelines for vidja journalism.
    This is a preview demo done at an event (Gamescom), so Dean likely had around 30 minutes to play the build and that's it. Nobody is expecting him to be a master of the game. But being able to do a jump-dash in a platformer is something that anyone who writes about videogames should be able to instantly, or quickly grasp and master in easy situation (like a tutorial without anything else to worry about).

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwack View Post
    Should they go from cover to cover as you would a book and 100% the game or how many playthroughs of a roguelite is enough to form an insightful opinion? Many opt for the easy click-bait joining whatever circle-jerk is happening already
    Not sure what you're even talking about, we're talking about a 30 minute hands-on preview at an event, not a full review.
    Last edited by Edge-; 2017-09-06 at 10:11 PM.

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