Net nerf for Havoc next week

[BiggestNoob]

Bottom becomes bottomer, T21 Havoc is the worst tier across the board and it forces Demonic which is already behind CB for raiding.

And as always, we’ll continue to keep a close eye on performance going forward.

I died. Blizzard in 2017.

[Zarcho]

Tier21 ain't out next week. Rather we get a 3% buff with crucible

[Deleted]

You're not equipping T21 til november, buddy. There's still 9 more weeks for any changes to happen for DHs. Maybe we'll get anything that's not an aura buff.

Gotta wait.

[BiggestNoob]

Tier21 ain't out next week. Rather we get a 3% buff with crucible

We don't scale as well with our crucible, and the other specs which were already performing better are either getting buffed as well or more. The effect this has on the average performing spec is that we're actually moving away from it.

You're not equipping T21 til november, buddy. There's still 9 more weeks for any changes to happen for DHs. Maybe we'll get anything that's not an aura buff.

Gotta wait.

No, we don't have to wait, they're not going to make any major changes at this point. That's what this "adjustment" means. If they thought they needed to make bigger tuning changes or anything significant, they would be. Havoc will be by far the worst spec in Antorus. It's a dead spec for the remainder of this expansion.

[Zarcho]

We don't scale as well with our crucible, and the other specs which were already performing better are either getting buffed as well or more. The effect this has on the average performing spec is that we're actually moving away from it.



No, we don't have to wait, they're not going to make any major changes at this point. That's what this "adjustment" means. If they thought they needed to make bigger tuning changes or anything significant, they would be. Havoc will be by far the worst spec in Antorus. It's a dead spec for the remainder of this expansion.

you know 7.3.5 is gonna be a class tuning patch right?

[Nevcairiel]

As Zarcho has already said, the .5 patches include the bulk of class tuning in Legion, and there will be another .5 patch for the release of the new Raid, and as such also before T21 becomes relevant - at which point they might as well still tune the set bonus, which they have done before in .5 patches.

[Cronovey]

you know 7.3.5 is gonna be a class tuning patch right?

This. All major tuning done this expansion so far was done during 7.1.5 and 7.2.5 with hotfixes going out the week after as Mythic unlocked for the raids to "fix" outlying specs one way or the other slightly.

And even if they don't buff the shit out of you, there's always going to be a bottom of the meter. Someone has to be there and Havoc has been doing pretty damn well for the first few raids so it's not the end of the world if they aren't topping meters for the last couple.

[Veiled Shadow]

We don't scale as well with our crucible, and the other specs which were already performing better are either getting buffed as well or more. The effect this has on the average performing spec is that we're actually moving away from it.

You have any evidence for this? Havoc certainly has very strong scaling with Crucible T1 (weapon ilevel) relative to many other specs.

[Rangar]

You have any evidence for this? Havoc certainly has very strong scaling with Crucible T1 (weapon ilevel) relative to many other specs.

It's because the relic traits aren't as large of a dps boost as they are for others.

[gaaara]

There is only one trait that makes a huge impact for DH's and that's Critical Strike Damage on Chaos Strikes. Every other trait is pretty much pointless.
The only other useful trait is Metamorphosis, but you only need 1 with Shoulder to get it with 2min.

[gcsmith]

you know 7.3.5 is gonna be a class tuning patch right?

All those promised changes in 7.2.5 worked well right?

- - - Updated - - -

This. All major tuning done this expansion so far was done during 7.1.5 and 7.2.5 with hotfixes going out the week after as Mythic unlocked for the raids to "fix" outlying specs one way or the other slightly.

And even if they don't buff the shit out of you, there's always going to be a bottom of the meter. Someone has to be there and Havoc has been doing pretty damn well for the first few raids so it's not the end of the world if they aren't topping meters for the last couple.

Right, being sat out even on heroic progress by a guild because why take DH over everything else it sucks.

[ceall]

Bottom becomes bottomer, T21 Havoc is the worst tier across the board and it forces Demonic which is already behind CB for raiding.



I died. Blizzard in 2017.

AFAIK WW Monks are by far bottom line atm (at least 75th percentile heroic). Well, at least we're (monks) are getting that sweet 9% buff to hopefully lift us to middle of the pack dps.

[Deleted]

"Heroic progress"

Our DH is part of our 7/9 mythic raid and is doing fine. He can even soak some stuff and dps wise is doing fine.

I know it isnt great. But after crucible buff you will pick the guy playing mechanics correctly. And DH is abdolutely fine for 7/9 mythic and some nice utility for last 2 bosses.

And it is a buff. I did some sims and casters and many melees gain about 5.7-5.8% from 15 weapon ilvls + additional tuning.

DH gets 4.82% from 15 weapon ilvls + another 3% -> 7.96% increase. So without too much math, DHs should see a performance buff relative to most dps of about 2.2-2.3%.

So far, ignoring all casters, you will see about following dps gains from 15 wilvls + hotfix buffs:

Unholy 2.0%
Sub Rogue 4.9%
Arms 5.7%
Enhance 5.8%
Frost DK 6.9%
DH 7.96%
Monks 10.75%

I didnt sim every spec, but DHs should make a little jump (not much). DHs weapon ilvl scaling is good (enhance gains only 3%, DHs nearly 5% and both get a 3% buff). Unholy should be the big loser unless they just forgot to mention their 3% aura buff. But Unholy is extremely strong right now.

[Occar]

It's because the relic traits aren't as large of a dps boost as they are for others.

Who cares (much) about the rank 3 second trait when Shocklight exists. Shocklight roughly as good as a critical chaos trait.

[Zarcho]

All those promised changes in 7.2.5 worked well right?

Since you couldn't read the whole context of the conversation. The guy I replied to, thinks 7.3 was to bring tuning for the class. I just simply pointed out that 7.3.5, the patch which is also gonna bring the raid, is supposed to be class tuning.

Funny how a conversation works right?

[VyersReaver]

Judging from your words, you think we get the short end of the stick. Ferals get even less. They are even less powerful.

[Deleted]

It's because the relic traits aren't as large of a dps boost as they are for others.

Ehm what? Based on what? Most have 1 BIS trait that is strong and the rest is pretty weak. DH isnt different.

- - - Updated - - -

Judging from your words, you think we get the short end of the stick. Ferals get even less. They are even less powerful.

Ferals are fine....

[Shelly]

Bottom becomes bottomer.

Man you paladins are never happy.

Oh wait, are you a shaman?

Ah! It's the demon hunter boards I stumbled across.

Sorry, got lost in the pity party of "blizz hates my class/spec, said unkind things about my mom and touched my dog inappropriately" circle jerk.

[gcsmith]

Since you couldn't read the whole context of the conversation. The guy I replied to, thinks 7.3 was to bring tuning for the class. I just simply pointed out that 7.3.5, the patch which is also gonna bring the raid, is supposed to be class tuning.

Funny how a conversation works right?

no, he said no tuning for antorus. blizz said we'd have some for NH and we didn't...

[Zarcho]

no, he said no tuning for antorus. blizz said we'd have some for NH and we didn't...

and yet we are doing just fine in ToS. Sure we are lacking in the AoE area. but we are doing fine on ST.

"No, we don't have to wait, they're not going to make any major changes at this point." hench why i mentioned 7.3.5 is a possiblity for changes, because its a tuning patch for classes?.

"If they thought they needed to make bigger tuning changes or anything significant, they would be." 7.3 was never intended to do that, unless you where a complete broken spec. which is why feral recieved some love for the lower skill cap department. Havoc is doing just fine in ToS, so why would they tune us in 7.3?

"Havoc will be by far the worst spec in Antorus. It's a dead spec for the remainder of this expansion." he is just making biased presumption of something none of us knows yet.