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  1. #1

    7.3 Netherlight Crucible Guide (Arms & Fury)

    Please be aware that the purpose of this guide is not to simply tell you which bonuses to take - there's no guide which will be able to do so accurately, due to the number of possible combinations. The goals of this guide are to explain the workings of the Netherlight Crucible and learn how to use the available community tools to create comparisons for yourself. Although it's themed toward Warriors, the concepts can be applied to any class.


    What is the Netherlight Crucible, and how does it work?
    The newest form of artifact customization, unlocked by questing through Krokuun and Mac'Aree in Argus.
    Anshlun has written a very good guide explaining the Crucible's basic mechanics, which I recommend reading for better understanding.

    Spoiler: 
    Simply put, the Crucible creates a three-tier talent tree for each relic in your artifact. These trees are unique to the relic, not the slot, so every time you change relics, you will have different choices, and need to reallocate points in them. Even relics of the same name may randomize different bonuses within the Crucible.

    • The first tier is always Netherlight Fortification, and has no requirement. It grants +5 ilevels to the weapon, for a total of +15 ilevels.
    • The second tier branches into the choice of Void (left) or Light (right) powers. Only one can be chosen, and requires 60-66 artifact levels to fully unlock.
    • The third tier consists of three bronze (4-point) artifact traits. Only one can be chosen, and requires 69-75 artifact levels to fully unlock. The artifact traits here cannot match the artifact trait currently in the associated relic.



    While there are no resource costs to choosing bonuses within the Netherlight Crucible, the choices branch semi-exclusively, so you must think ahead before making allocations. Choosing Void (left) in the second tier restricts you to the left or center third tier choices, while choosing Light (right) restricts you to the center or right choices. This means there are four total combinations of bonuses per Relic in the Netherlight Crucible.


    (image credits: Anshlun)




    Analyzing choices
    Because of exclusive pathing, there's no simple rule for evaluating Crucible choices. A strong Void trait may lead to weak Bronze choices, while a weak Light trait may lead to stronger Bronze, therefore, both tier 2 and tier 3 options must be evaluated together.

    A simple analysis may tell you that prioritizing the higher ranked bonuses is better. A Crushing Blows relic with Master of Shadows and Precise Strikes will be stronger than an Exploit the Weakness relic with Shocklight and Storm of Swords. That said, once you start analyzing relics of a different ilevel, with different base traits, 4 bonus combinations per relic, multiplied by 3 relics for each weapon, the situation quickly becomes complicated.

    T21 Arms
    Spoiler: 


    T21 Fury
    Spoiler: 

    Notes
    For simplicity's sake, defensive/utility bonuses are not considered. That may come in a later update, but for now, it will be left for the user to consider based on their own criteria.
    Non-thoroughput Bronze traits can appear in the Crucible, but will be left out of the below tables.
    Bronze traits still have a maximum cap of 7 points (4 base + 3 relics); while the Crucible traits are random, it will not roll a Bronze trait already present on the relic itself. This means if you have three Precise Strikes relics, you will not see Precise Strikes offered in the Crucible.



    Using Raidbots (the recommended method)
    Simulating the Netherlight Crucible is fairly tricky at the moment, due to some awkward syntax and the large amount of possible outcomes. Luckily, our friends over at raidbots have a set up initial support for comparing Netherlight Crucible bonuses. Please be sure to read the Caveats section, as it contains important warnings.

    Using the Relic Comparison Tool is simple. Import your characters data, and select the traits present in your crucible (due to the traits rolling randomly, the Tool cannot automatically do this for you). Check the box for Netherlight Fortification as appropriate, and duplicate as needed to compare different choices.

    Comparison Tool example
    Spoiler: 
    Here I'll compare the difference between my Fire Relic taking the Void path - Master of Shadows + Unstoppable, with the Light path - Light Speed + Wrath and Fury.


    In this case, Light Speed + Wrath and Fury come out ahead.





    Using SimulationCraft (for advanced users)
    Manually simulating is still possible and often better for doing mass comparisons, though the syntax is somewhat awkward. The simplest way is to use overrides to force in the relevant bonuses, using the copy function to compare choices. Keep in mind that SimulationCraft is a constantly evolving project, so some of these functions and syntax may change or break over time.

    Netherlight Fortification/adjusting ilevel
    Spoiler: 
    Comparing relics of a different ilevel can be accomplished easily by modifying the ilevel of the mainhand
    The simplest way is to simply add 15 ilevels onto your weapon, by adjusting the mainhand ilevel, although given that Fortification will be a constant, it shouldn't be necessary to do so manually. This function is still useful for evaluating the difference better relics of a different ilevel.

    For example, if you have a 951 Arms weapon, and want to change it to a 955 you would change the line main_hand=,id=128908,bonus_id=751,ilevel=951 at the bottom of the simulation tab to main_hand=,id=128908,bonus_id=751,ilevel=955. This can also be done with the copy command to create a comparison.


    Adding Shadow and Light powers
    Spoiler: 
    Add the relevant line to the bottom of your simulation tab, just below your equipment data. Note that each crucible trait can have up to three points (one per relic), in which case the number of points should be set accordingly (for example, if you have two relics with Torment the Weak you'd use crucible=1780:2 instead of :1).

    Name SimC Line
    Torment The Weak crucible=1780:1
    Shadowbind crucible=1778:1
    Chaotic Darkness crucible=1779:1
    Dark Sorrows crucible=1781:1
    Master of Shadows crucible=1771:1
    Murderous Intent crucible=1774:1
    Shocklight crucible=1777:1
    Light Speed crucible=1770:1
    Secure in the Light crucible=1782:1
    Infusion of Light crucible=1783:1


    Overriding Artifact traits
    Spoiler: 
    Similar to the above, add the override to the bottom of your simulation tab. Ensure you enter the correct number of points in the trait, to include the base (4) and combined total of all bonuses (trait on the Relic itself, plus any from the Crucible). For example: If you have 2 Unrivaled Strength relics, and one point through the Crucible, the correct syntax would be artifact_override=unrivaled_strength:7.

    Arms
    Spoiler: 
    Name SimC Line
    Crushing Blows artifact_override=crushing_blows:5
    Exploit the Weakness artifact_override=exploit_the_weakness:5
    Deathblow artifact_override=deathblow:5
    Unending Rage artifact_override=unending_rage:5
    Many Will Fall artifact_override=many_will_fall:5
    Precise Strikes artifact_override=precise_strikes:5
    Storm of Swords artifact_override=storm_of_swords:5


    Fury
    Spoiler: 
    Name SimC Line
    Wrath and Fury artifact_override=wrath_and_fury:5
    Unrivaled Strength artifact_override=unrivaled_strength:5
    Unstoppable artifact_override=unstoppable:5
    Raging Berserker artifact_override=raging_berserker:5
    Wild Slashes artifact_override=wild_slashes:5
    Deathdealer artifact_override=deathdealer:5
    Pulse of Battle artifact_override=pulse_of_battle:5


    Creating a comparison
    Spoiler: 
    You can combine the above to evaluate different relics and Netherlight Crucible bonuses. For example, take an Arms Warrior a 951 weapon, and compare using a 915 (62 ilvls) Deathblow relic with Shadowbind and Crushing Blows to a 900 (58 ilvls) Exploit the Weakness relic with Torment the Weak and Precise Strikes.



    The two come out almost equal, despite the ilevel disparity, due to the better bonuses. This isn't unusual, as generally ilevel is going to win, unless there's a pronounced disparity between bonus traits.


    This is, clearly, much more involved than using Raidbots, but offers certain advantages, not the least of which being able to do large batches of simulations and comparisons (see lists above) quickly on your own machine. It's also certainly not the only way to work with the Crucible in SimCraft, I just like using overrides because I find it much easier to work with and keep track of what I'm doing, rather than deciphering raw spell IDs.


    TLDR: There are too many variables and combinations within the Netherlight Crucible to create an easy list of X > Y. Reference the lists provided, but understand the strength of each bonus, and using the community tools available will give you better answers.

  2. #2
    Nice post arch. Stickyyyy dis.

    Softbottom <Game Over>
    Proudmoore

  3. #3
    Nice job, been waiting for this recently.

  4. #4
    The /Bounce Emote Wishblade's Avatar
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    Awesome! I've been looking forward to this popping up, so thanks a ton!

    Always great with some more in-depth knowledge of choices and ways to compare them to each other for scrubs of theorycrafting like myself. :P

  5. #5
    Has this guide taken into account the hotfixes tonight? http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/1...ight-crucible/

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullbar View Post
    Has this guide taken into account the hotfixes tonight? http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/1...ight-crucible/
    No.
    Note: Slightly out of date due to recent tuning, though the overall relationship will remain fairly consistent. This note will be removed once updated.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Anuibus View Post
    No.
    Note: Slightly out of date due to recent tuning, though the overall relationship will remain fairly consistent. This note will be removed once updated.
    It really doesn't matter, given that the point of the guide is to explain how to figure out for yourself what is best. Because there are multiple bonuses involved, simply picking the highest bonus isn't accurate, as 3 mediocre bonuses can outweigh 1 good bonus and 2 bad ones.

    Regardless, it's updated now.

  8. #8
    I love you for this! I was just fretting over what direction to go!

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Seramore's Avatar
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    Awesome. Thanks for keeping up to date guides!

  10. #10
    Thanks, do one for prot now please.

  11. #11
    Nicely done, loving your guides so far. I hope you'll do one for prot aswell.

  12. #12
    Chaotic Darkness vs Infusion of Light:

    To make up for the average damage of Chaotic Darkness being 180k to Infusion of Light's 101k, it must proc fairly less often. Simming the two, Infusion of Light comes out slightly ahead. What I'm more interested in is the healing, since they are so close in DPS and they both lead to Wrath and Fury in the T3 slot, if one does noticeably more healing than the other, I'd like to take that.

    Does Infusion of Light's healing proc from Bloodthirst? Would I get more heal procs from Chaotic Darkness because it can proc from everything, despite a lower proc rate?

  13. #13
    You should post it on your Patreon page too... I felt neglected, you should post more there.

  14. #14
    Does torment the weak lose value if you get more than 1? due to it only stacking to 3?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by l10f View Post
    Does torment the weak lose value if you get more than 1? due to it only stacking to 3?
    I have Torment the Weak on 2 relics and it definitely loses some value. It does proc more often and sometimes gets to 3 stacks quickly and keeps it refreshed more often. There are still some times where the DoT is off for 8-10 seconds before it procs again. I imagine you don't actually lose all that much DPS though.

  16. #16
    What happens if you take same damage proc talents (shadowbind, chaotic darkness etc.) for 2 or 3 relics? Do they stack (proc effect multiplies), overlap each other (share ppm counter) or proc independently? Also murderous intent and shocklight - do they stack? Talents that give permanent stat increase should stack, I guess, but for procs it is extremely confusing.
    Last edited by niaphim; 2017-09-13 at 05:14 AM.

  17. #17
    Does the ilvl on the reliqs you put in the crucible matter of some sort?

  18. #18
    Scarab Lord Phookah's Avatar
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    You're doing God's work Skater McGee- I mean, Archimtiros

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by krigsmaskin View Post
    Does the ilvl on the reliqs you put in the crucible matter of some sort?
    You mean in the vein of it changing what traits are available? No I don't think the ilevel effects that.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Phookah View Post
    You're doing God's work Skater McGee- I mean, Archimtiros

    - - - Updated - - -



    You mean in the vein of it changing what traits are available? No I don't think the ilevel effects that.
    Uhm yesi think so, if i have a 930 relic that gives bad traits but a 900 that give awesome traits.
    Does the ilvl diffrence matter?

  20. #20
    Doesn't seem like the new legendary ring that doubles light and shadow traits is going to be worthwhile. What are your thoughts Archimtiros?

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