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  1. #21
    Hey there, I was wondering if anyone else was a little disappointed thus far in the 'Shadowbind' trait. I saw that the guide had been updated and it was indicated that it was one of the better ones, but in my target dummy testing and then again in raid last night I came away being pretty underwhelmed. Here's the log for our Goroth kill last night :

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=28

    2.42ish million damage for a 4 and a half minute long fight. That just seems pretty 'meh' to me. I RL, so as I'm watching the timers and making callouts so I know that I don't play my rotation perfectly, but it seems like I can make up a few million damage easily by simply playing better. It could have been only a million and just been a blip on the radar. So if that's the case, should we worry that much about the 2nd tier traits at all? I only have one unrivaled strength trait, so going from one to three of those, and then getting 'wrath and fury' as the second trait seems to be the first thing we should aim for? And then really only look at the 2nd tier traits for absolute min maxing?

  2. #22
    the proc damage got reduced for warriors like TOS trinkets
    Last edited by sickcity; 2017-09-13 at 04:50 PM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by krigsmaskin View Post
    Does the ilvl on the reliqs you put in the crucible matter of some sort?
    Not as far as which bonuses the Crucible will roll are concerned. However, it is possible for a lower ilevel relic with better bonuses to be better than a higher ilevel relic with worse bonuses (and vice-versa). See the ranking charts for easy guidelines, I added ilevel comparisons for more clarification.

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    Quote Originally Posted by l10f View Post
    Does torment the weak lose value if you get more than 1? due to it only stacking to 3?
    Quote Originally Posted by Grayson Carlyle View Post
    I have Torment the Weak on 2 relics and it definitely loses some value. It does proc more often and sometimes gets to 3 stacks quickly and keeps it refreshed more often. There are still some times where the DoT is off for 8-10 seconds before it procs again. I imagine you don't actually lose all that much DPS though.
    It does not proc any more often, the proc simply deals more damage. RPPM remains 4 across the board.

    • Rank 1 = 16,000
    • Rank 2 = 32,000
    • Rank 3 = 48,000

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigtom View Post
    Doesn't seem like the new legendary ring that doubles light and shadow traits is going to be worthwhile. What are your thoughts Archimtiros?
    Certainly not competitive with top DPS legendaries, but it's also a quest reward, so it'll be there for new and returning players, or those who just have rotten luck. It's possible there'll be some niche use with exacting setups, such as 3x top damage trait, but that's very unlikely to be a practical consideration.

  4. #24
    Nice tread man. But i think something is fishy with the some of the 2nd tiers that proc either as damage or as a heal/shield, such as the "Infusion of light" trait. I've done some testing and it seem like either procs counts into RPPM. This means that in the case of "Infusion of light" BT heals can proc the healing benefit from the trait, which means that RPPM for damage is in fact lower than the actual sims. I.E comparing logs with a DH in our raids, he scores on avr 2-4 more damage proc on 5 min fights even though i have 15% more haste. So a fury warrior can "loose" the procs on healing effects. Thoughts? Fyi I've also done some rough calculations which puts 15% haste at 1 extra RPPM.
    Last edited by Zpirituz; 2017-09-14 at 11:06 PM.

  5. #25
    Nice thread! I have a comment regarding procs that either gives damage or a healing effect, such as 2nd tier "Infusion of light". In fact, if the healing effect procs off BT heals, it counts into the overall RPPM. This means that BT can lower the dps output on this trait an other like it. When i compare logs with our DH on 5 min fight he actually have 2-4 more procs even if i have 15% haste and 1 more RPPM. thoughts?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Zpirituz View Post
    Nice thread! I have a comment regarding procs that either gives damage or a healing effect, such as 2nd tier "Infusion of light". In fact, if the healing effect procs off BT heals, it counts into the overall RPPM. This means that BT can lower the dps output on this trait an other like it. When i compare logs with our DH on 5 min fight he actually have 2-4 more procs even if i have 15% haste and 1 more RPPM. thoughts?
    There was some discussion about this in SimC Dev the other day, along with that suspicion. Not much we can do about it right now but report it and try to find out if it's an intended interaction or not.

  7. #27
    Shadowbind got hotfixed
    The Netherlight Crucible trait Shadowbind will now correctly benefit from the caster's Critical Strike chance.

    Dunno if simc/raidbots and other stuff has been updated with this yet. Small change though, just makes it slightly closer to the talents above it.

  8. #28
    Just got infusion of light on one relic, that shit crit for 400k, crazy

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Zpirituz View Post
    Nice thread! I have a comment regarding procs that either gives damage or a healing effect, such as 2nd tier "Infusion of light". In fact, if the healing effect procs off BT heals, it counts into the overall RPPM. This means that BT can lower the dps output on this trait an other like it. When i compare logs with our DH on 5 min fight he actually have 2-4 more procs even if i have 15% haste and 1 more RPPM. thoughts?
    If it helps I can confirm that BT heals do proc the healing portion of Secure in the Light, so if Infusion of Light works the same way it probably does. Gift of the Naaru also seems to proc it but I can't confirm whether or not Helya's Odyn Fury triggers the heal or not.

  10. #30
    Is infusion of light better than shadowbind due to proc rate?

    Softbottom <Game Over>
    Proudmoore

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisxor View Post
    Is infusion of light better than shadowbind due to proc rate?
    It doesn't really matter, pick whichever leads to the best T3. In a perfect scenario there's only ~0.04% between them, that's trivial to the point of "who gives a shit".

    They've changed some flags with Infusion of Light lately (separate from the Paladin change), removing its ability to proc from a bunch of special abilities. Not sure how/if that influences the proc on healing yet, as I don't have it to manually test and this game's PTR is next to worthless. If you're worried about it, just avoid the trait.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    It doesn't really matter, pick whichever leads to the best T3. In a perfect scenario there's only ~0.04% between them, that's trivial to the point of "who gives a shit".

    They've changed some flags with Infusion of Light lately (separate from the Paladin change), removing its ability to proc from a bunch of special abilities. Not sure how/if that influences the proc on healing yet, as I don't have it to manually test and this game's PTR is next to worthless. If you're worried about it, just avoid the trait.
    I'm not to concerned about 0.04% I noticed too on one of my relics I had a fucking healing trait. You can get healing traits on relics as a dps? that's rather annoying (was the stacking healing one I can't remember the name of it).
    Last edited by Softbottom; 2017-09-21 at 02:21 PM.

    Softbottom <Game Over>
    Proudmoore

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisxor View Post
    I'm not to concerned about 0.04% I noticed too on one of my relics I had a fucking healing trait. You can get healing traits on relics as a dps? that's rather annoying (was the stacking healing one I can't remember the name of it).
    Yes, there's 2 0-DPS traits(and, I believe, 6 0-HPS for healers).

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    Yes, there's 2 0-DPS traits(and, I believe, 6 0-HPS for healers).
    Correct; Bloodcraze and Battle Scars are worth zero-dps, while Uncontrolled Rage, Wild Slashes, and Pulse of Battle are pretty close.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    Correct; Bloodcraze and Battle Scars are worth zero-dps, while Uncontrolled Rage, Wild Slashes, and Pulse of Battle are pretty close.
    He was talking about T2 traits, I'm assuming(otherwise it shouldn't really be confusing, seeing as you're only guaranteed 1 DPS trait in T3), where it's Reflective Shield and whatever the direct healing equivalent is called.
    Last edited by Tradu; 2017-09-25 at 08:43 AM.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    He was talking about T2 traits, I'm assuming(otherwise it shouldn't really be confusing, seeing as you're only guaranteed 1 DPS trait in T3), where it's Reflective Shield and whatever the direct healing equivalent is called.
    Yea was the T2 traits i was speaking about. The trait was called lights embrace. Just find it kind of stupid to have none dps traits for players using the relics for dps specs

    Softbottom <Game Over>
    Proudmoore

  17. #37
    For T21 Arms, this guide says that the highest value artifact trait is Many Will Fall which buffs how much cleave buffs the next WW. In the Arms Compendium under rotations it says only to cleave before WW if FOB is selected AND not using Archavons. So does that mean the value of Many Will Fall becomes 0 if you're using Archavons as you wouldn't use cleave before WW?

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by hotfries88 View Post
    For T21 Arms, this guide says that the highest value artifact trait is Many Will Fall which buffs how much cleave buffs the next WW. In the Arms Compendium under rotations it says only to cleave before WW if FOB is selected AND not using Archavons. So does that mean the value of Many Will Fall becomes 0 if you're using Archavons as you wouldn't use cleave before WW?
    You're confusing Many Will Fall with One Against Many.

    • If you're not using Fervor, the value of Many Will Fall becomes 0 in single target situations.
    • If you are using Fervor, but aren't using Archavon's, One Against Many has very slight single target value.

  19. #39
    Yep you're right, completely confused the 2. Thanks!

  20. #40
    again thanks for helping us plebs, your fury guide is on point!

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