Should mythic raiding going forward be tuned to be as easy as Emerald nightmare was?

[Deleted]

the only raiding in wow should be LFR.

[shyguybman]

I'd rather them leave it just as difficult but make 10man available again.

[Marrilaife]

Mythic mode may have negative effects on the game experience of other players, even if those other players aren't doing mythic mode.

For example, mythic tends to pull better players away into their own guilds, rather than having them stay playing with the lesser players.

You call this a negative, I call it a positive. "Lesser players" as you call them will have better experience if they group with other "lesser players" in a content appropriately challenging to them and try to overcome this challenge together. Having players "boost" them is only good for the lowest common denominator crowd that cares not for challenge, effort or feeling of accomplishment, just afk and collect shinies. If they have people "boost" them they immediately start thinking this other class is OP or the person "boosting" has "better legendaries" or something like that, they sit on their laurels because they aren't challenged, they're dragged through the content and then make silly statements on the forums like "x spec is op because a guy in my hc guild tops charts by playing spec x". Plus most people run dps meters these days, I'm not sure how it is enjoyable to bottom the charts because you play with team mates that are clearly better than you, so then you have to make these kinds of excuses "I bottom the charts because my spec is nerfed" and so forth, it's not really a fun experience.

There is a reason why pvp games separate players into leagues, brackets or tiers, you don't put some plat players into bronze so the bronze player can get boosted, that creates imbalanced matches, makes the weaker players not learn anything and not have to do anything just tag along, and ofc it's even worse in pvp because with broken matchmaking this guy can be your opponent instead of team mate.

I have more respect for a guild where people take 3 months to clear heroic but they clear it in a group that learns together and slowly overcomes a challenge that might be trivial for a hardcore player, than for people with pug mentality "oh we wiped let's just invite some high ilvl / curved / whatever other thing they have we don't, so they can boost us".

Guild raiding is about overcoming the content as a team, that's why mixing together people of completely different level of skill, dedication and care often doesn't end well because internal tensions arise, some people want to be more chill and casual, some want to be more hardcore and goal-oriented. That's why it's also important that every bracket of players has some content appropriately tuned for them, because if they either clear it too fast or hit a brick wall, they'll get bored.

[Deleted]

No for god sake. I respect ToS being considered too hard but no raid should be cleared in one day

[Nahela]

It needs to be toned down, the participation in Mythic raiding is the lowest it's ever been and it's just getting worse over time. Gearing content to keep the 'world first' race longer doesn't do anything but destroy the experience for people later on.

Should it be challenging? Absolutely. But it either needs to be tuned after the fact or just tuned right to begin with. There's so much RNG involved now. If your group is lucky on titanforge, then you progress faster. If they're not, you're potentially stone-walled until you are. Stuff is just tuned way too high due to the gear available.

[Donald Hellscream]

No, while I haven't done any real mythic raiding while it is current unless killing Skorpyron a time or two before tomb came out counts I do believe it should be really hard maybe not tuned as crazy as bosses like Avatar or KJ was but definitely not as easy as say Xavius was compared to Cenarius.

[Deleted]

the only raiding in wow should be LFR.

lfr isnt raiding and will never be raiding

[meowfurion]

No, shitty players already have heroic, normal, and LFR.

Uhh, people not having the time to devote to Mythic progression doesn't make them a shitty player. People having families, careers, and social lives that they put ahead of pushing killing the same damn bosses over and over again just with more damage and health for the same gear just with bigger numbers doesn't make them shitty players.

[Deleted]

It needs to be toned down, the participation in Mythic raiding is the lowest it's ever been and it's just getting worse over time. Gearing content to keep the 'world first' race longer doesn't do anything but destroy the experience for people later on.

Should it be challenging? Absolutely. But it either needs to be tuned after the fact or just tuned right to begin with. There's so much RNG involved now. If your group is lucky on titanforge, then you progress faster. If they're not, you're potentially stone-walled until you are. Stuff is just tuned way too high due to the gear available.

grinding ap and legendaries is the bigger reason less players raid mythic not the actual difficulty (way more people burn out from that than people burned out from avatar/kj) - the people suffering from what was actually too hard (avatar+kj) are only the top 50-60ish guilds the rest of tos was perfectly fine (besides fixing mistress from one id to another,was kinda aids.)

around 15-20 players i play with have quit over the time of legion and besides one or two it was all caused by being burned out due to grinding ap and farming legendaries (dont tell me "what? you dont have to do this its your choice." because for a progress guild it really wasnt your choice - wanted to kill helya? yea have 4 shadows or 35 traits on your raid in the early kills.)´

[Deleted]

lfr isnt raiding and will never be raiding

....is so.

[kaintk]

That elitist group might not even exist in the near future if Blizzard keep it like this.

Mythic difficulty kinda feels pointless at this point, you can get equal or even better gear from LFR/normal/heroic/M+ which is kinda silly but its fine in Blizzard's eyes. Just take a look at mythic KJ - weeks of progress and in the end you get rewarded with 940 items, thats all. The funny part is that you can get 940+ items from LFR if you are lucky. TF system is one of the main reason why mythic guilds are slowly dying.

well you dont go in mythic raid to have stuff, because having high stuff dont give you anything more, it dont give you the stuff to go higher than mythic.. so mythic raid is just there for the challenge , challenge on the top of a mountain, if you rmove the difficulty from it, you remove a big goal in the game, just give the mythic stuff in a random chest if blizzard remove that difficulty

[Richardbro]

No for god sake. I respect ToS being considered too hard but no raid should be cleared in one day

It was cleared in one day by the worlds best guilds, who put hundreds (probably thousands) of hours into preparation, gearing and progression.

It took the other great guilds a week or so, and outside the top 100 a month+. I think that's a decent difficulty level.

[GoForIt1]

Mythic raiding shouldn't be as easy as EN but it shouldn't take 5 months for regular 3 days mythic guilds (guilds ranked 200-600ish) to clear it either, I don't feel like raids should be tuned for world first race and i feel like ToS is. Even guilds who cleared it, struggle on reclear, where is fun in that. Times have changed, raiding isnt as competitive as it used to be in tbc,wotlk times so I don't understand tight tunings, lots of guilds are disbanding, players are satisfied with their normal/heroic kills and not feeling attracted to commit half a year on one raid which is understandable. So IMO mythic raiding should be open to wider player population, it's enough that it requires solid stable ~25 player group which a lot of guilds don't have. Perfect tuning would be something between EN and NH but a bit closer to NH.

[GoForIt1]

Mythic raiding shouldn't be as easy as EN but it shouldn't take 5 months for regular 3 days mythic guilds (guilds ranked 200-600ish) to clear it either, I don't feel like raids should be tuned for world first race and i feel like ToS is, these guys play 5-6 characters on highest level, raiding 12 hrs a day, prepare on PTR, have Weak aura for every single ability before raid is released, is it really weird that one of them clears it so fast ? I woul'dnt say so. Even guilds who cleared it, struggle on reclear, where is fun in that. Times have changed, raiding isnt as competitive as it used to be in tbc,wotlk times so I don't understand tight tunings, lots of guilds are disbanding, players are satisfied with their normal/heroic kills and not feeling attracted to commit half a year on one raid which is understandable. So IMO mythic raiding should be open to wider player population, it's enough that it requires solid stable ~25 player group which a lot of guilds don't have. Perfect tuning would be something between EN and NH but a bit closer to NH.

[Osmeric]

What you and other people Do not understand is that if Blizzard lower the Mythic difficulty for YOU (when i say you, i mean the guilds at your level/in your situation), then why not lowering it for the people below your level (they also want to raid mythic !), and why not lowering it again for the people below them?

Yeah, he should accept a game that doesn't do it for him because otherwise Blizzard might make the game not do it for him. /rollseyes

He was telling you that the game as it stands is unacceptable to him, and that Blizzard, in trying to satisfy a tiny microminority of top players, ticked off a larger group that includes him. Your argument does nothing to refute that.

[Deleted]

Yeah, he should accept a game that doesn't do it for him because otherwise Blizzard might make the game not do it for him. /rollseyes

He was telling you that the game as it stands is unacceptable to him, and that Blizzard, in trying to satisfy a tiny microminority of top players, ticked off a larger group that includes him. Your argument does nothing to refute that.

You don't understand my point.
Let's say that tomorrow Blizzard says "Ok you right now we gonna make Mythic way easier and allow the top 3000 guilds to complete it". But what about all the guilds between rank 3000 and 4000? They want to clear mythic too. And what is going to be their argument? Well it's going to be "The game as it stands is unacceptable for us, and Blizzard is only satisfying a tiny microminority of top players, that doesn't include us". And they would be right because even if 3000 guilds clear mythic that's about 3000*25= 75000 players... Compared to the 5millions + total players (pure speculation here, i reckon)it's a goddam tiny minority.

So what does Blizzard do? Well maybe the day after they say "okay okay don't get mad we gonna tune mythic so top 4000 guilds can clear it". But then all the guilds between rank 4000 and rank 5000 will complained because they want to clear mythic too! And what is going to be their argument? Well i let you guess.

And it goes on and on and on.... And where does it stops?