Netherlight Crucible - disappointed

[Noblebanned]

As much as I obviously disagree with you on the flying debate, this one is preeeeeetty obviously indisputable. I don't understand how people complain about TFing this whole time and then they drop even more loot rng on top of the loot rng we already have on TOP OF the regular loot RNG that has been in the game since Vanilla.

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Because it isn't "improving shit relics", it's taking your already good relics we've been farming for the last 98 days and then randomly making them god tier or shit tier in one patch.

All this does is make your second best relic trait a viable option if it happens to roll your best in the Crucible. There's no alternative to that.

And this idiotic mentality is what's wrong with the game. Instead of looking at it as beneficial, people cry be cause they're fucking moronic and blind to the fact that it helps those random garbage relics that happen to TF. For example, I have a 945 eyebeam relic. Guess what, it has Chaos Cleave sitting at the bottom of it now. I have a 945 of my BiS trait now, instead of a significantly worse one, because of this system. But twerps like this idiot right here would rather bitch and moan, just like people bitched and moaned about WoD's free 10 ILvLs from Valor, like they bitched about reforging, like they bitched about whatever they bitched about before because bitches bitch like bitches. Yawn

[Deleted]

Hey... They actually realised the mistake and retuned the 2nd traits. Some hope restored.

[Hctaz]

And this idiotic mentality is what's wrong with the game. Instead of looking at it as beneficial, people cry be cause they're fucking moronic and blind to the fact that it helps those random garbage relics that happen to TF. For example, I have a 945 eyebeam relic. Guess what, it has Chaos Cleave sitting at the bottom of it now. I have a 945 of my BiS trait now, instead of a significantly worse one, because of this system. But twerps like this idiot right here would rather bitch and moan, just like people bitched and moaned about WoD's free 10 ILvLs from Valor, like they bitched about reforging, like they bitched about whatever they bitched about before because bitches bitch like bitches. Yawn

I mean I didn't care about Reforging or WoD ilvls because those weren't RNG fests.
I don't know how Demon Hunter relics work in terms of item level to trait ratio, but that 945 with a shit trait and a BiS crucible trait would still be worse for my class/spec if I had a 925 with BiS and second BiS traits. So that's the problem. It doesn't make anything better. It only makes what is already good worse or better randomly. A 955 with your BiS relic trait can suddenly be worse than a 930 version just because the traits in the Crucible rolled better on the 930. That's fucking retarded. If you could just CHOOSE your shit (like reforging) then I wouldn't be complaining.

[Zabatakis]

I feel like this expac has been grooming us for when wow goes f2p. Just one man's cynical opinion anyway

[Deleted]

in couple of months not long - you need 12 more weeks to get to AK 55 and then it will be easy .

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besides a couple of thousand of high end raiding junkies playerbase dont care about anything besides itlv - every choice blizzard made this expansion is proving that further.

you are fighting already lost battle - blizzard see its working so you can expect even more rng in 8.0

slot machine type mechanics are clearly fun - you see them everywhere now in any possible multiplayer game.

and its working.

It's not fun, it's not exciting, it's either a sign of addiction (player side), or of poor gameplay management (company side, because black box tactics need to be used to keep players subbed, instead of either entertaining, repeatable content or social ties).

They just dropped the ball and desperately need things to keep us occupied. And adding layers of RNG to mess up with our inherited methods of progression is the CHEAPEST way to do so. Same reason why they remove or delay flying. Cheapest way to artificially stretch time played and inflate participation numbers in content which many people would not do if they would not want to unlock flying.

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I feel like this expac has been grooming us for when wow goes f2p. Just one man's cynical opinion anyway

Will probably change nothing for me. I will remain casual. But you could be right. I don't believe that Blizzards wants the best for WoW anymore. They keep it on life support already, with sugar coating so the rotting corpse is not blatantly visible.

[Deleted]

Man I miss the days of scrolling through a loot table and just picking out what I needed to get for each slot for BiS.

WF, TF, and NC can all suck fat ones, bring me back the excitement of seeing Perdition's Blade finally drop.

This, goddamn this!!! Ooh I still remember the feeling of me getting the Hammer of Crushing Whispers from yogg. Relics can not even come close to the feeling of finally getting that weapon you have been hoping on. Now it's ooh great a stat stick which I have to sim for 15 minutes to get a idea of if it is even better then what ever other stat stick I have equipped.

[StaeleAilar]

Why? Why did you do this? Are you raiding with Method currently? Are you applying for them? If not, then why in the fuck would you do this? This isn't Blizzard doing this to you, this is you doing it to yourself and then complaining about it

Because if im going to lock in with the relics i have and whatnot, i am better off going for what is best as opposed to locking into paths on a whim?

You dont HAVE to be world first to want to do what is best for your character. I didn't say blizzard was forcing me to do that, blizzard IS however forcing me to grind for relics on the off chance they are better in the third tier.. so i dunno... you do you boo.

[Nurasu]

At best it was slightly implied until he put "like we used to be able to do" at the end because we've had this WF/TF system for 3 expansions now and every time you've been able to upgrade every piece of gear Warforged or not.

Before wasn't WF +5 and TF +10? I don't think we had the ranges that Legion has, so it's not apples to apples anyway.

[KaPe]

Before wasn't WF +5 and TF +10? I don't think we had the ranges that Legion has, so it's not apples to apples anyway.

Mythic dungeons had TF up to +25, but it was really rare and couldn't be farmed repeteadly and had no guaranteed drop every week. Other than that, it was just a standard +6.

[Nurasu]

Hey... They actually realised the mistake and retuned the 2nd traits. Some hope restored.

There's still utility vs. damage, so even though they 'realized' that mistake with legendaries, they put it in for this. I'm laughing my ass off.

[datredphoenix]

I mean dps gain is a dps gain, does suck that you have to optimise everything though

[kamuimac]

I mean I didn't care about Reforging or WoD ilvls because those weren't RNG fests.
I don't know how Demon Hunter relics work in terms of item level to trait ratio, but that 945 with a shit trait and a BiS crucible trait would still be worse for my class/spec if I had a 925 with BiS and second BiS traits. So that's the problem. It doesn't make anything better. It only makes what is already good worse or better randomly. A 955 with your BiS relic trait can suddenly be worse than a 930 version just because the traits in the Crucible rolled better on the 930. That's fucking retarded. If you could just CHOOSE your shit (like reforging) then I wouldn't be complaining.

your problem is you are looking at efficiency and BiS - and blizzard goal is completly different - they want only itlv to matter to people

and they wont back down. because its what most of playerbase want.

[Sentynel]

Will probably change nothing for me. I will remain casual. But you could be right. I don't believe that Blizzards wants the best for WoW anymore. They keep it on life support already, with sugar coating so the rotting corpse is not blatantly visible.

"life support" yeah, sure... whatever.

it's not like they doubled the WoW team

[Deleted]

There's still utility vs. damage, so even though they 'realized' that mistake with legendaries, they put it in for this. I'm laughing my ass off.

So much this. They are a bunch of hypocrites and how anyone can defend them is beyond me.

[Hctaz]

your problem is you are looking at efficiency and BiS - and blizzard goal is completly different - they want only itlv to matter to people

and they wont back down. because its what most of playerbase want.

That's fine. But until they make item level actually fucking matter above all else then they've failed, and the systems in place that are made with this mentality behind them fail along with them. There is hardly a single class in this game where item level truly trumps all else. There are plenty of people who have one stat matter so much more than all else that it's worth sacrificing 20+ item levels on gear just to make sure it has it, even more so when it comes to jewelry.

[kamuimac]

That's fine. But until they make item level actually fucking matter above all else then they've failed, and the systems in place that are made with this mentality behind them fail along with them. There is hardly a single class in this game where item level truly trumps all else. There are plenty of people who have one stat matter so much more than all else that it's worth sacrificing 20+ item levels on gear just to make sure it has it, even more so when it comes to jewelry.

they are pretty succesful at it though - look at group finder - only thing that matters there is itlv - you can have your worst possible stats but if you are even 1 itlv over someone who has bis stats you will get in he will get declined

the only enviroment at which secondary stats matter atm is high end mythic raiding which is 3-5 % of playerbase tops.

[Hctaz]

they are pretty succesful at it though - look at group finder - only thing that matters there is itlv - you can have your worst possible stats but if you are even 1 itlv over someone who has bis stats you will get in he will get declined

the only enviroment at which secondary stats matter atm is high end mythic raiding which is 3-5 % of playerbase tops.

Just because the players of a game play a certain way does not mean Blizzard's design for "Item level above all" is working. The fact that item level gets you into things has always been the case as soon as there was a way to measure it, even when specific stats mattered so much that warriors would take leather gear with agility on it simply because it gave more Armor Penetration than the plate equivalents. Most specs still care about very specific stats. A Sub rogue/unholy dk/arms warrior geared to the teeth with haste will do significantly worse damage than one geared for mastery, and you will still get kicked out of pugs if your dps is shit regardless of how high your item level is.

So no, secondary stats matter to almost everybody. You will get booted for doing low dps and you will do low dps on most classes if not geared properly. Item level requirement has been a thing since Wrath with Gearscore even though Legion is the first time they've had this philosophy of wanting higher item level to always be better than lower. You cannot use the fact that people accept higher item level over lower item level. It's simply a philosophy of taking your best bet. Somebody who has the exact same gear but higher item level will do more damage or healing than somebody with less item level. Most classes with 10 item levels in poorly stat-ed gear will do worse than somebody with properly stat-ed gear. Item level is not the defining factor.

Relics are even worse since there are some classes who care very little for item level on their stats due to either poor scaling or having insanely good traits. Frost dks were like this in NH with their Blast Radius trait. It was worth 30 item levels just to get it. Many relics are still the same today.


Also and more importantly: They're trying to make item level matter now because of the player mentality that it should matter. Players will always pick strangers with "better" gear. The only way to easily tell who has better gear is to check item level. Nobody is going to go sim everybody who wants to join their group. Blizzard is just trying to accommodate the way we naturally play but it hasn't worked yet.