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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Kcin14 View Post
    I know that some of them are speed clear groups, they say as much in the description/title and those have a valid reason but I'd say on average in my own experience 80-90% of the group listings are like this. Also, people with 910 gear ARE equipped to do normal ToS given that they have on average better gear than the raid drops, they shouldn't have to look for "charity groups" in fact in a healthy community the average group would take them as 910 *should be* a character thats cleared the raid a few times and has a decent amount of gear from it. Instead someone that outgears the drops in the raid is considered too low geared to do that content. Also, it should be noted that none of this takes into account player skill. I could have my guildies carry me through Heroic ToS and get all sorts of good gear and AFK it the whole time and I will always get invited to pugs because of my ilvl despite the fact that in this case I may be a terrible player while a person in appropriate gear that does not entirely outgear the content will get rejected very quickly without second thought regardless of whether they'd actually pull their own weight which again if someone is pulling their own weight they should not need a "charity group".
    The problem with your entire post, is the assumption that people in 910 ILvL gear are capable of pulling their numbers. Most of the time, they can't. I've pugged almost every single week (on an alt during the times I was in a mythic progression guild) and I see so many people that prove to me that ILvL doesn't mean shit. The big problem with that is, the lower the ILvL, the more garbage they'll likely be, just because they can't be carried by their gear. Now that ToS has been out for 2 months, I don't have the time or patience for those kinds of players. I want to get in, get my clears, and get out.

    You'll see alot of players of lower skill and gear levels cry about this, but to be honest I could give a fuck less. I don't know any of them, they don't matter whatsoever, and if I were to never see them again, oh fucking well. I want to play with players around my skill level, I don't mind people that are slightly below me (Sylvaeres-Proudmoore) to give you an idea. My problem comes when I'm doing 1.1m +/-, others in the group are doing around there (900k-1.3m range), and then there's some 600k dps half assing it. I'd kick them after Goroth, and not think twice. There's more than enough time in the day to become relatively decent at one character, and I don't get mad when I'm on an alt and I get kicked if the same rules applied to me.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Noblebanned View Post
    My problem comes when I'm doing 1.1m +/-, others in the group are doing around there (900k-1.3m range), and then there's some 600k dps half assing it. I'd kick them after Goroth, and not think twice. There's more than enough time in the day to become relatively decent at one character, and I don't get mad when I'm on an alt and I get kicked if the same rules applied to me.
    Well I just checked the character you linked, 936 ilvl, TOS 4-set, TOS trinkets, bah, full TOS gear in general. Do you really expect a guy in 910 argunite gear to keep up with you? I mean ok, you can not invite him because you cba "boosting" but saying he's "half assing it" is a bit over the top.

    My hunter going from "890 wq gear" to "930 hc TOS gear" kinda doubled its dps, having set bonuses, trinkets and strong legendaries means a lot, it's not "just ilvl" or "just git gud at your class".

    But yeah, I have no idea how people gear in pugs. When you need the gear, you aren't invited anywhere or you're invited into groups that wipe for 2h on some easy boss and disband because no one follows tactics. When you have the gear, then I dunno why continue to farm hc TOS, just for titanforge? It will be obsolete when Antorus launches anyway. I mostly geared my alts with the help of friends and guildies, we would do m+ together or make our own group where our alts didn't need 930+ to enter hc TOS, but we knew the strats and we knew we can't ignore them with low geared alts.

    But yeah, this is the thing with pugs, sub 930 no one is gonna invite you, after 930 I kinda cba keeping farming on that char because there's extremely small chance something will be an upgrade. I'm not gonna fall for the Blizzard's trap of "illusion of always upgrade".

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    People insisting on higher ilvl than the rewards has been a thing as long as gear had a visible rating on it. You cannot fix stupid.
    Please explain to me how not wanting to play with dogshit casual players doing garbage dps is stupid? If a 940 player queues followed by a 920 player do I have some sort of moral obligation to invite the shitter just so trash like you doesn't cry on the forums about being declined from groups?

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    Well I just checked the character you linked, 936 ilvl, TOS 4-set, TOS trinkets, bah, full TOS gear in general. Do you really expect a guy in 910 argunite gear to keep up with you? I mean ok, you can not invite him because you cba "boosting" but saying he's "half assing it" is a bit over the top.

    My hunter going from "890 wq gear" to "930 hc TOS gear" kinda doubled its dps, having set bonuses, trinkets and strong legendaries means a lot, it's not "just ilvl" or "just git gud at your class".

    But yeah, I have no idea how people gear in pugs. When you need the gear, you aren't invited anywhere or you're invited into groups that wipe for 2h on some easy boss and disband because no one follows tactics. When you have the gear, then I dunno why continue to farm hc TOS, just for titanforge? It will be obsolete when Antorus launches anyway. I mostly geared my alts with the help of friends and guildies, we would do m+ together or make our own group where our alts didn't need 930+ to enter hc TOS, but we knew the strats and we knew we can't ignore them with low geared alts.

    But yeah, this is the thing with pugs, sub 930 no one is gonna invite you, after 930 I kinda cba keeping farming on that char because there's extremely small chance something will be an upgrade. I'm not gonna fall for the Blizzard's trap of "illusion of always upgrade".
    Hey first of all, I have some Mythic + gear too! Nah, kidding. But yes, my character is moderately geared. The reason being is that I've put some effort in to maintain him.

    The big problem is, these 910-920 argunite geared players aren't familiar with their class. I specifically listed the dps range I like to be surrounded by because I want to have a smooth run. The players who roll a new character, gear them, and then get mad at the actually geared players because they want competent groups is what I was pointing out. Not every group has high requirements, and on top of that, there's always the option if MAKING YOUR OWN RUN. I hate this helpless mindset people have. You need 2 tank, 3-5 heals, and enough dps to give those healers something to do. The problem is people want their hands held, and I don't want to be in a hand holding raid

  5. #85
    Scarab Lord Razorice's Avatar
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    Wait 'til Antorus.
    "LFM Antorus Normal Fresh, 950+ ilvl. No curve no inv" on the first week.

  6. #86
    Warchief skannerz22's Avatar
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    stop being a sheep make your own raid group
    -Proffesional Necromancer-

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Noblebanned View Post
    But yes, my character is moderately geared.
    I don't wanna know what you count as "good" geared then if you call 936 with set, good trinkets and good legendaries "moderately", my current main is 7/9 mythic and has probably comparable gear if not slightly worse (I don't have bis legendaries due to forced reroll and I don't soak titanforges because I'm a tank and they get masterlooted to dps players, as it should be).

    Quote Originally Posted by Noblebanned View Post
    The big problem is, these 910-920 argunite geared players aren't familiar with their class. I specifically listed the dps range I like to be surrounded by because I want to have a smooth run. The players who roll a new character, gear them, and then get mad at the actually geared players because they want competent groups is what I was pointing out.
    As I said, I don't blame you for picking players with high gear and experience and not wanting to boost newbies. There's no moral obligation to do so and everyone's time is precious.

    I'm just saying their dps is low not because (or not only because) they "don't know their class", it's literally impossible to do good dps with no tier, no good legendaries, random stats you happened to roll on the gambling gear, random trinkets and so on.

    The second part of my post wasn't targeted at you, just at pugging community in general, the "zerg runs" go fine but if you actually try to get into or make yourself a "gear up" run it just doesn't stick, people only want zerg runs and not groups where you actually have to follow strats, avoid shit on the ground instead of outhealing it, managing mechanics like minimize dps on maiden during avatar so you phase him as late as possible etc.

    I remember one normal TOS pug I managed to join when gearing up my hunter where people actually followed tactics and we killed lots of bosses despite low gear / low dps. All other runs were just "oh can't zerg it, let's just kick a few people and invite some higher ilvls instead", rarely leader would even check who's failing on mechanics, just who's lowest on dps = kick.

    And it's not always the case of wipe. For example last time my friends made some hc pug, we had a handful of ours and rest pugs, we actually had to kick a dps who wasn't the lowest, but was sitting on maiden during avatar all the time upping his dps, didn't stop despite warnings - after kicking him suddenly boss phased 10% later and we killed him easily. But ofc if you have full "zerg" group these details become irrelevant and that's why "zerg" groups work.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Razorice View Post
    Wait 'til Antorus.
    "LFM Antorus Normal Fresh, 950+ ilvl. No curve no inv" on the first week.
    Yup, I expect it to largely be a repeat of last tier and the cries when Blizzard readjust things.

    Personally though I have not had much issues getting into mythic+ groups at my appropriate level all the while not doing raid content for gear. Sure there are less options but they are there.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    I don't wanna know what you count as "good" geared then if you call 936 with set, good trinkets and good legendaries "moderately", my current main is 7/9 mythic and has probably comparable gear if not slightly worse (I don't have bis legendaries due to forced reroll and I don't soak titanforges because I'm a tank and they get masterlooted to dps players, as it should be).

    As I said, I don't blame you for picking players with high gear and experience and not wanting to boost newbies. There's no moral obligation to do so and everyone's time is precious.

    I'm just saying their dps is low not because (or not only because) they "don't know their class", it's literally impossible to do good dps with no tier, no good legendaries, random stats you happened to roll on the gambling gear, random trinkets and so on.

    The second part of my post wasn't targeted at you, just at pugging community in general, the "zerg runs" go fine but if you actually try to get into or make yourself a "gear up" run it just doesn't stick, people only want zerg runs and not groups where you actually have to follow strats, avoid shit on the ground instead of outhealing it, managing mechanics like minimize dps on maiden during avatar so you phase him as late as possible etc.

    I remember one normal TOS pug I managed to join when gearing up my hunter where people actually followed tactics and we killed lots of bosses despite low gear / low dps. All other runs were just "oh can't zerg it, let's just kick a few people and invite some higher ilvls instead", rarely leader would even check who's failing on mechanics, just who's lowest on dps = kick.

    And it's not always the case of wipe. For example last time my friends made some hc pug, we had a handful of ours and rest pugs, we actually had to kick a dps who wasn't the lowest, but was sitting on maiden during avatar all the time upping his dps, didn't stop despite warnings - after kicking him suddenly boss phased 10% later and we killed him easily. But ofc if you have full "zerg" group these details become irrelevant and that's why "zerg" groups work.
    936 isn't that insanely geared at this point. I wouldn't say I got lucky with legendaries, I didn't get Anger (Bis) till the week before ToS came out. My character is a product of effort, not luck. And as you said, you're a tank, most guilds gear tanks last.

    As far as low dps because of low gear, most low geared people generally suck. Mainly because they haven't played that toon much, or they're casual, or a bunch of other reasons.

    Sidenote: i run my dh with the same group every week, and there's 3 other DHs, so we are lucky in that aspect because we can pass eachother gear
    Last edited by Noblebanned; 2017-09-18 at 04:30 AM.

  10. #90
    925 is below avg now, and will hardly get you into m+ groups..

  11. #91
    This is why I wowprogress and look for dungeons done/completed. Ilvl is fucking meaningless (i'm 930 equipped/950 in bag)
    I level warriors, I have 48 max level warriors.

  12. #92
    Officers Academy Prof. Byleth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    Don't worry, you'll be the "victim" again soon enough.

    And the forums will never hear the end of it.
    Pretty much this.

    But to be honest, when is this ever a problem? I have no issues finding groups for toons of any gear level. It sounds like what you're actually saying is that now I can get into groups that can easily farm the dungeon/raid without wiping. That's good!

    But remember when the paradigm shifts again, you can still get groups, you just may have to work harder.

  13. #93
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyorkbourne View Post
    Tbf that 930 is what you appear as with gear in your bags. I'm 933 equipped but im 947 in group finder because 20 legendaries. An extreme example, but yeah.
    it only counts the 2 you have equipped or your 2 that would give you the biggest ilvl gap
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  14. #94
    ilvl and raiding mean dick in this game. If you're not going for world or server first, don't bother. It's too much of a chore

  15. #95
    Elemental Lord Felfaadaern Darkterror's Avatar
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    None of this matters if you actually make friends in game. Getting into groups is the least of my worries; I can't log in without someone inviting me to run a key with them. That's not because I'm the best tank ever; it's because I'm decent and I don't rage quit and people I've run with in the past had a positive experience with me tanking. They don't need to check my rating or gear or anything else; they just think "Oh Fel is on, let's grab him."

    I have one particular healer friend I meet on line for M+ every Friday. We sometimes pug a dps; if they turn out to be good we add them to friends. We've been doing this for months, so there's almost always dps friends available when we're looking for someone. #s will never tell the whole story. First hand experience running with someone in the past is always your best reference.

    "I Am Vengeance. I Am The Night. I Am Felfáádaern!"

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Achilles55 View Post
    Please explain to me how not wanting to play with dogshit casual players doing garbage dps is stupid? If a 940 player queues followed by a 920 player do I have some sort of moral obligation to invite the shitter just so trash like you doesn't cry on the forums about being declined from groups?
    first of all just because someone isnt overgeared to the teeth doesnt make him "dogshit casual" it makes him not having the gear and doin content designed for him to gear up.

    2nd of all if you really were 940 itlv and wanted to do content with others uber-940 itlv players you would put in 940 in req box and your problem wouldnt exist because then only the uber 940 elite could see your group.

    comments like this are showing that there is 99% of probablity you are one of those "im 940 on main therefore i deserve to be carried on my shit 910 alt by 940 players and dont want to do content with others which have similiar itlv to mine"

    whos the entitled here ? if you realy want to play with elite just put elite req and be freee from casual world

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by atsawin26 View Post
    I agree with you, but get ready for the Hate Train from the angry wannabe elitists
    Quote Originally Posted by SupBrah View Post
    920? What is this? 7.2.5?
    1/10 story was predictable.

  18. #98
    Deleted
    It will go up when Antorus open. W8 for NH normal leg run with 930+ needed

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