Thread: Expectation

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  1. #1
    Bloodsail Admiral Chemii's Avatar
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    Expectation

    What did you do in wow in the previous expansions that makes current content patches "worthless" or "bad"?

    I see a lot of complaining about wow these days, where there seems to be an expectation of more from patches and I'm scratching my head a little. The ICC patch as an example, was basically 3 dungeons and mountains of class changes and interface changes. That was it. The raid was added sure but throughout its cycle, that was all you got until Ruby Sanctum, which was just another short raid, frankly and most players hated it.

    I'm not sure what players expect now to stop them complaining? What would you put in a patch that is so far from what we have now, that makes it interesting to you and meets your expectations of lasting months on end?

    On the one hand you have players moaning about grinding and it takes forever and then the other hand you have players saying they have nothing to do or the new stuff is just "more of the same".

    Argus is far from perfect, with that I can agree and I don't think it will last long - but I don't know if there is an answer to some of your problems other than to stop playing wow all together.

    Just a thought

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemii View Post
    On the one hand you have players moaning about grinding and it takes forever and then the other hand you have players saying they have nothing to do or the new stuff is just "more of the same".
    Almost everything that has been added to Wow has been "more of the same". One of the things that really annoys me, is the increased amount of RNG related stuff. Don't get me wrong, I LIKE the WF/TF system when it comes to getting gear upgrades, but there are far far too many things that are fkd up right now because of RNG involvement.

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Chemii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambrodel View Post
    Almost everything that has been added to Wow has been "more of the same". One of the things that really annoys me, is the increased amount of RNG related stuff. Don't get me wrong, I LIKE the WF/TF system when it comes to getting gear upgrades, but there are far far too many things that are fkd up right now because of RNG involvement.
    I think that is a problem for me as well but I'd say that is more of a systems design choice rather than a patch content problem. For all its faults there would be even less to do in the eyes of the complainers if they hit a finite gear cap though.

  4. #4
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    Like you said and well, this patch is no different from any other previous patch.
    My theory is that people want something new and innovation because they are tired of the "same old, same old"

    Legion was a step in the right direction because they tried A LOT of new stuff but in the big scale of things...is still the same old.

    So my theory is that people want innovation and are tired of the same things every expansion. Just a theory.
    Last edited by mmocaf0660f03c; 2017-09-12 at 02:06 PM.

  5. #5
    if it isn't alt friendly by letting you get a full mythic set in 2 resets and allows for flying so you can get said gear moving in a straight line, it's a bad patch.

  6. #6
    Bloodsail Admiral Heeresman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemii View Post
    What did you do in wow in the previous expansions that makes current content patches "worthless" or "bad"?
    What did I do?
    Nothing.
    I played the game, same as always.
    I haven't changed, nor have my expectations.
    But the game has changed.

    Yep, patch 7.3, more would have been good, what we got was a few bits of story (all the lore freaks will criticise this, wgaf), a few m.i.a. npc's returning after millions of years fighting somewhere, we have also been presented with farming rares (the word rares is laughable but whatever) for mounts and farming 2 reps until raid comes in next patch.
    Now, more would have been good.
    I think that sums up patch 7.3, for me at least.
    2 things to do: reps and mounts, boom, done and dusted.
    The 1 dungeon that is coming week 3?
    Didn't include because it will be done and dusted after a few runs more than likely.


    What would you put in a patch
    More reps to grind with ofc meaningful rewards.
    More dungeons that will remain relevant longer.
    Better zone designs.
    More diversity in world quests
    better creativity in world quests
    a bigger pool to draw from so that world quests are populated with way more variety than what there currently is
    A mini raid (yes yes, goes without saying, interesting encounters, mechanics, gear, relevance etc)
    Add more dungeons to the pool of mythic + (maybe from other xpacs, albeit that may be difficult)
    More Sylvanas (for fukks sake)

    That's off the top of my head....






    but I don't know if there is an answer to some of your problems other than to stop playing wow all together
    Well, you do have your section of clowns here who have.
    Stopped playing.
    Weeks, months even years ago.
    And working to get their post counts up with their bs on how the game is currently playing.
    Those who do not stand with the Forsaken stand against them. And those who stand against the Forsaken will not stand long

  7. #7
    Blizzard's getting a serious hard-on for all this RNG business that they've added in Legion. The fact they've based the last quarterly on total logged in time leads me to believe they're just going to push their luck and make it so much worse in the next expansion with further more unnecessary changes of making other things RNG that weren't.

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Chemii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerWolf View Post
    Blizzard's getting a serious hard-on for all this RNG business that they've added in Legion. The fact they've based the last quarterly on total logged in time leads me to believe they're just going to push their luck and make it so much worse in the next expansion with further more unnecessary changes of making other things RNG that weren't.
    The RNG factor is only really catapulted to the forefront because of the legendary system. I think most players can handle one or the other being down to RNG but not both at the same time.

    Titanforge is OK for me but normal should never forge above heroic or heroic above Mythic, it loses the magic somehow.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemii View Post
    The RNG factor is only really catapulted to the forefront because of the legendary system. I think most players can handle one or the other being down to RNG but not both at the same time.

    Titanforge is OK for me but normal should never forge above heroic or heroic above Mythic, it loses the magic somehow.
    Legendaries isn't the only RNG of concern... even collectors were dealt a blow when they made reputation mounts RNG. I've personally done over 12k WQs and I have YET to get a single one of these fucking mounts. AND THEN THEY MADE A NEW PARAGON CACHE IN 7.3 THAT ADDED 3 MORE MOUNTS AFTER ALL ITS CRITICISM!

    And if you were in a moderately serious raiding guild, you were compelled to run various difficulties for a chance of those TF procs. I hated it, to the point I became a social... after having been an end-tier raider since WotLK.

    This expansion has seriously burnt me out...
    Last edited by Daedius; 2017-09-12 at 02:25 PM.

  10. #10
    It's pretty simple, I played the patch so that I could play the next patch. Gear resets, AP resets and stuff like that makes progressing through an expansion organically pretty pointless.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemii View Post
    What did you do in wow in the previous expansions that makes current content patches "worthless" or "bad"?

    I see a lot of complaining about wow these days, where there seems to be an expectation of more from patches and I'm scratching my head a little. The ICC patch as an example, was basically 3 dungeons and mountains of class changes and interface changes. That was it. The raid was added sure but throughout its cycle, that was all you got until Ruby Sanctum, which was just another short raid, frankly and most players hated it.

    I'm not sure what players expect now to stop them complaining? What would you put in a patch that is so far from what we have now, that makes it interesting to you and meets your expectations of lasting months on end?

    On the one hand you have players moaning about grinding and it takes forever and then the other hand you have players saying they have nothing to do or the new stuff is just "more of the same".

    Argus is far from perfect, with that I can agree and I don't think it will last long - but I don't know if there is an answer to some of your problems other than to stop playing wow all together.

    Just a thought
    Just adding more stuff that you more or less have to do does not make the game any better.
    Argus is 3 annoying zones, more of the same world quests we already did all expansion long and then theres the RNG slot machine (netherlight crucible) at the end that adds more problems and fixes none of the ones it's "desigend" to fix.

    The design of Legion is all over the place and it doesn't look like the different departments or teams within the WoW dev team actually communicates at all.
    They were super happy that they had more devs than ever but it's actually looking like a disadvantage when it comes to Blizzard.
    Smaller teams, working on other games seems to do a much better job.

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral Chemii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heeresman View Post
    More reps to grind with ofc meaningful rewards.
    More dungeons that will remain relevant longer.
    Better zone designs.
    More diversity in world quests
    better creativity in world quests
    a bigger pool to draw from so that world quests are populated with way more variety than what there currently is
    A mini raid (yes yes, goes without saying, interesting encounters, mechanics, gear, relevance etc)
    Add more dungeons to the pool of mythic + (maybe from other xpacs, albeit that may be difficult)
    More Sylvanas (for fukks sake)

    That's off the top of my head....
    I can't really read this too well but this highlights the problem. You're asking for more of the same with meaningful rewards - What's a meaningful reward exactly? Mounts, pets, gear & toys?

    Define relevant? Isn't the Mythic+ system keeping all dungeons relevant? In which patch were dungeons relevant for so long?

    Just asking for something to be "better" is not exactly cohesive feedback, better is subjective.

    The quest problem is palatable but 3 of your points are essentially the same thing, just more diversity.

    Essentially I feel like the players don't really know what they want.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The only underlying issue I have with Argus that bothers me is all the loose ends with the story. All the campaigns started well but they become irrelevant at the Broken Shore - Argus is essentially ditching most of the build up - but I'm hoping to return to Azeroth in a possible 7.4, to move some shit along, like what has Sylvanas been doing for ages?

  13. #13
    People just like to complain. Some one who actually enjoys the game wouldn't even need patches to continue doing so.
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  14. #14
    Bloodsail Admiral Chemii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Just adding more stuff that you more or less have to do does not make the game any better.
    Argus is 3 annoying zones, more of the same world quests we already did all expansion long and then theres the RNG slot machine (netherlight crucible) at the end that adds more problems and fixes none of the ones it's "desigend" to fix.

    The design of Legion is all over the place and it doesn't look like the different departments or teams within the WoW dev team actually communicates at all.
    They were super happy that they had more devs than ever but it's actually looking like a disadvantage when it comes to Blizzard.
    Smaller teams, working on other games seems to do a much better job.
    All I see here is loose criticism without any answers to the questions I asked though to be honest. Where did the expectation come from that patches should be so much more than Argus is? Don't you think that's a bit crazy? It's not like we have regressed, people just seem to moan as if they are missing out on something, which is the bit that doesn't make sense to me.

    All I missed was Mists so unless it had some crazy good patches where new and exciting (but now clearly boring or missing entirely?) mechanics/activities were added, whats the problem?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemii View Post
    All I see here is loose criticism without any answers to the questions I asked though to be honest. Where did the expectation come from that patches should be so much more than Argus is? Don't you think that's a bit crazy? It's not like we have regressed, people just seem to moan as if they are missing out on something, which is the bit that doesn't make sense to me.

    All I missed was Mists so unless it had some crazy good patches where new and exciting (but now clearly boring or missing entirely?) mechanics/activities were added, whats the problem?
    I expect them to stop using RNG to "fix" everything, add flying back, remove legendaries and war/titanforge, go back to the raid design philosophy they had in Cata-WoD and stop rewarding people for doing nothing (harder content, better rewards) - A mythic raiders should never have any reason to set his/her foot in LFR.

    Better?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemii View Post
    I can't really read this too well but this highlights the problem. You're asking for more of the same with meaningful rewards - What's a meaningful reward exactly? Mounts, pets, gear & toys?
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemii View Post
    All I see here is loose criticism without any answers to the questions I asked though to be honest. Where did the expectation come from that patches should be so much more than Argus is?
    "People don't know what they want until you show it to them" -Steve Jobs

    I can see exactly why you are confused. People are complaining about the patch when this patch is as good or better than any other previous patch.

    The only explanation that i can think of is that people want innovation. What do they want? I have no idea and i'm pretty sure the people themselves don't know it either.
    They want something new never before seen in WoW because they are tired of playing the same game for 13 years.

  17. #17
    Bloodsail Admiral Chemii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    I expect them to stop using RNG to "fix" everything, add flying back, remove legendaries and war/titanforge, go back to the raid design philosophy they had in Cata-WoD and stop rewarding people for doing nothing (harder content, better rewards) - A mythic raiders should never have any reason to set his/her foot in LFR.

    Better?
    All of this has absolutely nothing to do with content patches, you are grumbling about game design, not content.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowpunkz View Post
    Like you said and well, this patch is no different from any other previous patch.
    My theory is that people want something new and innovation because they are tired of the "same old, same old"

    Legion was a step in the right direction because they tried A LOT of new stuff but in the big scale of things...is still the same old.

    So my theory is that people want innovation and are tired of the same things every expansion. Just a theory.
    Blizzard innovate, and players complain that it isn't what they are used to.
    Blizzard don't innovate, and players complain about it.

    The community is impossible to please.

    Garrisons/Order Halls.
    Level Scaling.
    World Quests.
    Vehicles in PvP.

    All of which have been very divisive.
    People see innovations they don't like as not being that.
    Blizzard do things like introduce new character models, and are accused of destroying their characters.
    They won't get it right with something new, or more of the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowpunkz View Post
    "People don't know what they want until you show it to them" -Steve Jobs

    I can see exactly why you are confused. People are complaining about the patch when this patch is as good or better than any other previous patch.

    The only explanation that i can think of is that people want innovation. What do they want? I have no idea and i'm pretty sure the people themselves don't know it either.
    They want something new never before seen in WoW because they are tired of playing the same game for 13 years.
    What they want changes every time they realise they get what they asked for.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2017-09-12 at 03:29 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Your forgot to include the part where we blame casuals for everything because blizzard is catering to casuals when casuals got jack squat for new content the entire expansion, like new dungeons and scenarios.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  19. #19
    Bloodsail Admiral Chemii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowpunkz View Post
    "People don't know what they want until you show it to them" -Steve Jobs

    I can see exactly why you are confused. People are complaining about the patch when this patch is as good or better than any other previous patch.

    The only explanation that i can think of is that people want innovation. What do they want? I have no idea and i'm pretty sure the people themselves don't know it either.
    They want something new never before seen in WoW because they are tired of playing the same game for 13 years.
    I think that's fair but a little bit of a big ask for a patch personally, even if it is a major one.

    Innovation is great but comes at odd times and is difficult to force. They also run the risk of making wow, not wow, which is risky business for such a big cash cow and as someone else has said, players say they want new things but get pissed off when things change too much. Half the community wants vanilla but doesn't want the same old thing, as a developer it seems a bit paradoxical. "We want new stuff, lots of it but we want it like it used to be".

    The lack of real response to this discussion just highlights the fact that players actually are incapable of communicating what they want even though they are quick to point out what they dislike. As a designer it strikes me as a bit of a nightmare.

    Certainly as a creative, working on wow will inevitably make you ill or kill your motivation.
    Last edited by Chemii; 2017-09-12 at 04:00 PM.

  20. #20
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemii View Post
    What did you do in wow in the previous expansions that makes current content patches "worthless" or "bad"?
    Back then I used to raid. So everything else WAS effectively worthless to me (except story stuff, always liked that) b/c by the time I had farmed anything I had better gear anyway.
    Now I no longer raid but in the same breath stopped caring about item level altogether. So except for story elements, patches are still worthless to me. ._.

    Oh well, plenty of fish in the sea. So far I'm good with the "sub on patch to check out the story and leave the hamster wheel to s/o else" approach.

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