Casters and 7.3 -Not Good!

[haxartus]

I have a rogue and a mage with roughly the same level of gear, within 10ilvls.

Frostbolt on my mage does 115k damage for 1.45s cast. Gloomblade on my rogue, instant spammable combo generator with no CD, does 330k.
Ebonbolt, which is the artifact ability on my mage, does 627k, has a 45s cooldown, 2.17s cast. I wonder what does 600k on my rogue....
Shadowstrike - 617k, instant, no CD, generates 2 combo points, if cast from stealth teleports you behind the target and does 25% more damage...

Not that the mage does less damage overall, it's just way more effort to setup, it can be interrupted or stopped in a variety of ways and a lot of things could go wrong. Glacial spike can do about 2 million on my mage, but it takes like 30 seconds to setup and can be interrupted. I can do a 2 million Eviscerate on my rogue instantly with basically a macro, and I can cast Eviscerate with full combo points like 4-5 times in 10 seconds with no effort.

Of course, the mage has other strengths like a good amount of control over the battlefield, if played correctly, and a lot of survivability. But the rogue just feels more powerful in pretty much all aspects.

[Appelgren]

Yeah. Buffs shadow and destruction. So bad!

[Omaski]

I have a rogue and a mage with roughly the same level of gear, within 10ilvls.

Frostbolt on my mage does 115k damage for 1.45s cast. Gloomblade on my rogue, instant spammable combo generator with no CD, does 330k.
Ebonbolt, which is the artifact ability on my mage, does 627k, has a 45s cooldown, 2.17s cast. I wonder what does 600k on my rogue....
Shadowstrike - 617k, instant, no CD, generates 2 combo points, if cast from stealth teleports you behind the target and does 25% more damage...

Not that the mage does less damage overall, it's just way more effort to setup, it can be interrupted or stopped in a variety of ways and a lot of things could go wrong. Glacial spike can do about 2 million on my mage, but it takes like 30 seconds to setup and can be interrupted. I can do a 2 million Eviscerate on my rogue instantly with basically a macro, and I can cast Eviscerate with full combo points like 4-5 times in 10 seconds with no effort.

Of course, the mage has other strengths like a good amount of control over the battlefield, if played correctly, and a lot of survivability. But the rogue just feels more powerful in pretty much all aspects.

i think that is the idea with frost mages and their abilities...its not all about the damage with frost mages. their frost moves dont hit very hard but they all snare. You may not notice the difference as a teleporting sub rogue but some melee hate frost-anything.

[haxartus]

i think that is the idea with frost mages and their abilities...its not all about the damage with frost mages. their frost moves dont hit very hard but they all snare. You may not notice the difference as a teleporting sub rogue but some melee hate frost-anything.

Right now the snares are less useful than ever.
In TBC/Wrath I could kill rogues with my mage without them being able to hit me. However, if they got to me, they could stunlock me. I could kite warriors as well, but if they got to me, they can 1 shot me. Each class had it's own specific thing that was good at.

Right now pretty much any major weakness of every class has been fixed and classes that rely on doing a specific thing under specific circumstances are worse than ever. Casters in general rely on melees not being able to get to them easily...

[tru]

Where have you been since Cataclysm?

I still remember the day I went into the Arena as a mage, witnessing the Warrior Charge->Intercept->Charge->Heroic Leap me, with a cd on charge as short as my blink. It's been impossible to kite a melee for years now.

And I remember the days where a arms war couldn't touch a frost mage. And I remember arms being the anti rogue.

[Omaski]

Right now the snares are less useful than ever.
In TBC/Wrath I could kill rogues with my mage without them being able to hit me. However, if they got to me, they could stunlock me. I could kite warriors as well, but if they got to me, they can 1 shot me. Each class had it's own specific thing that was good at.

Right now pretty much any major weakness of every class has been fixed and classes that rely on doing a specific thing under specific circumstances are worse than ever. Casters in general rely on melees not being able to get to them easily...

well i wish my experience fighting frost mages was as simple as you portray it to be with my ret pally.

I agree with you that the homogenization of classes have made it easier for melee while most casters continue to have a high skill cap. But thats MOSTLY a result of blizz catering to noobs for pvp, w/ templates and pve gear translating to pvp, rather than melee being broken....not to mention the fact that WoW pvp has been dominated by casters for years before legion.

[Dizzeeyooo]

And I remember the days where a arms war couldn't touch a frost mage

which is why arms warriors played with classes that typically completely dominated frost mages, like warlocks

And I remember arms being the anti rogue

which is why rogues played with classes that typically completely dominated arms warriors, like mages

which is how successful arena comps were created previously, vs now where whatever does the most dps in any particular patch + whatever heals the most in any particular patch = god tier comp

[Well]

which is why rogues played with classes that typically completely dominated arms warriors, like mages

which is how successful arena comps were created previously, vs now where whatever does the most dps in any particular patch + whatever heals the most in any particular patch = god tier comp

Exactly this, plus Interrupt Bot. I cannot describe how disgusted I felt when I was interrupted 0.1 sec into my spells and later was told that it's simply a bot. I abandoned PvP in WoW since then.

- - - Updated - - -

And I remember the days where a arms war couldn't touch a frost mage. And I remember arms being the anti rogue.

Going from:

1 Blink VS 1 Out of Combat Charge, which is fully logical, as the Blinker will get destroyed if the Warrior reaches him

to:

1 Blink VS 2 Charges IN COMBAT, 1 Intercept AND Heroic Leap.

What the fuck are we even talking about? And let's not forget ferals, who could snap out of anything by spamming a macro with no cd.

I don't give a fuck what is going on for even the 5% of the WoW elite PvP population. What I want is the other 95% be able to play a PvP game that is not characterized by standing in a non-protection warrior's Shockwave, because they Storm Bolted just before (NOTE: a RANGED stun on a MELEE class).

Melee have received tools they must have never received, ever, making WoW PvP absolutely terrible for at least 3 expansions now.

[Ealyssa]

Casters being able to move while casting is simply the same as a warrior able to move while doing his abilities

Then lets force casters to be at melee range to cast and we have a deal...

[Deleted]

Then lets force casters to be at melee range to cast and we have a deal...

Not sure if serious or playing a different game.

[Golden]

Well, I've played ret, fury, ass, ele, and frost mage now.

All of them feel pretty good except my frost mage. He can't kite well enough to deal with most melee anymore, and anyone that can dispel magic rips his Ice Barrier off almost immediately leaving him very vulnerable. He also seems to be a favorite target by most - reminds me of the old ele shaman days.