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  1. #41
    Banned docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    Clearly not as new as you if you think instanced pvp is wpvp.

    That being said, only the first guy is wpvping and is running the most rng burst build during that time paired with the fact mages have control dripping out their ass.

    Side note, all of these peoples taste in music is absolute shit.
    Confirmed new. Fire mage was RNG heavy but in PvP the play style was different. You never gambled on scorch or fireball, you inferno blast-control-inferno blast-burst. Deep and nova made your pyros guaranteed crits. You never burst outside of deep unless you were desperate, this eliminated all RNG. Go to 7:33 for an example of a good fire mage vs a bad fire mage.

    Pre-Legion and post Wrath there was hardly a difference between WPvP and random BGs. Some stats were scaled down and trinket effects nerfed. Unless you were doing something cheesy in the world with certain buffs or toys, they were the same.

    If you don't see the skill in those videos you're just staring at the numbers.
    Last edited by docterfreeze; 2017-09-25 at 06:32 PM.

  2. #42
    Banned docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    Confirmed wrong. Been playing off and on since beta.

    This talk has been about wpvp not instanced so those other videos are negated. Because yes, it is different as you don't know what cooldowns have been used vs in wpvp when a person to in is likely to have all cooldowns up.

    Also how can you say the one fire mage is bad without seeing his gear? There's a good chance the "better" of the two vastly it geared him.

    Not to mention everyone in this thread is telling you that you're wrong. Ever stop to wonder why?
    2/3 videos feature world PvP, I don't understand your whining.

    Here's a brang video with World PvP:


    The bad fire mage spammed scorch, CS'd randomly, never deeped, never poly'd, used combust randomly, blinked randomly, and never stole hot streak or pyroblast. I don't think he ever time warped either, if he did it was used ineffectively. You could give him the benefit of the doubt and say it was on cooldown.

    Looks like you're the only one debating me on these videos. If you can't see the skill in them after my replies then you can't be helped.
    Last edited by docterfreeze; 2017-09-25 at 07:27 PM.

  3. #43
    Yes I am not happy with it since my return.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I am hoping if I stay for next expantion that it will get better

  4. #44
    Wow Pvp is vexed in the most disgraceful and pathetic state it's ever been in. It's takes a lot of talent to take a product with so much potential like WOW pvp and completely mess everything up. Bad decision after bad decision after bad decision has tainted WOW pvp to the point that no really cares anymore. What exactly can be considered good about it during Legion? They've killed more classes with nerfs than I've ever seen and I've playing since the beginning of WOTLK. BGs are consistently random noobs vs pre-mades. If you're horde you wait 15 mins in the queue, longer if you block out both AV and IOC. If you're alliance you're consistently facing Horde pre-mades. Unless you heal or possesses a 2k badge, you can't find people to arena with. Skirmishes are a joke. Rbgs are completely dead and if you find a decent group they break up after one win. You've got a better shot at finding the Holy Grail than you do at finding a decent pvp guild, let alone any pvp guild. Oh and the lead designer/ director of Pvp left almost 4 months ago and the position still hasn't been filled.

  5. #45
    Bloodsail Admiral DrIvoRobotnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjoramier of Lordaeron View Post
    Are you suggesting wow ever had good pvp? LuL
    Well, depends on definition of good. Most fun I would say BC, most balanced Pandaria.

  6. #46
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    Yes it is. Legion seems to heavily focus on the pve aspect and honestly since cata/mop it seems pvp just went downhill. Really wish they would actually try to analyze the current issues in pvp and why it's become so ****. #Pray for next expansion

  7. #47
    The Lightbringer Caolela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxeley View Post
    Wow Pvp is vexed in the most disgraceful and pathetic state it's ever been in. It's takes a lot of talent to take a product with so much potential like WOW pvp and completely mess everything up. Bad decision after bad decision after bad decision has tainted WOW pvp to the point that no really cares anymore. What exactly can be considered good about it during Legion? They've killed more classes with nerfs than I've ever seen and I've playing since the beginning of WOTLK. BGs are consistently random noobs vs pre-mades. If you're horde you wait 15 mins in the queue, longer if you block out both AV and IOC. If you're alliance you're consistently facing Horde pre-mades. Unless you heal or possesses a 2k badge, you can't find people to arena with. Skirmishes are a joke. Rbgs are completely dead and if you find a decent group they break up after one win. You've got a better shot at finding the Holy Grail than you do at finding a decent pvp guild, let alone any pvp guild. Oh and the lead designer/ director of Pvp left almost 4 months ago and the position still hasn't been filled.

    Blizz fuckery wins again.

  8. #48
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    Someone complaining about wPvP being bad because he cannot win 1vs.10 any more? Are you serious?

    1 vs. 10 has absolutely nothing to do with skill. Ever. If you are able to do 1 vs. 10, then you are either playing a completely overpowered class/spec or your vastly outgear the others. None of which shows how great you are at PvP.

    And, regarding wPvP, this is actually even more pronounced in Legion: Most Tanks (especially DKs, DHs and Bears) can actually easily do 1vs.10 because of their insane selfheal combined with 90% of pure-dps classes output. Again, has nothing or not much to do with skill, just pressing the couple buttons you have like in PvE.

    Instanced PvP on the other hand, has the advantage that it actually COULD be balanced if Blizzard wanted to. Given the state of Warriors, DKs, hell melee in general just shows that Blizzard does not want to do it. I guess more money to be made by making one class/spec OP for a couple of months and then switching to another.

  9. #49
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    The pvp system is outdated as hell and needs another revamp.

    There is no solo que for competitive pvp and terrible matchmaking. And battlegrounds give horrible rewards or require insane amounts of grinding to get anything with the new honor ranking system.

    Imagine a system where you can que for 3's, select your role, and then wait in que for another 2 members with similar amount ranking.

    No one does bg's because the rewards are awful. And no one does ranked pvp because entry level is really annoying. It's a horrible dated system that has not changed FOR OVER 10 YEARS.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by KronosIII View Post
    The pvp system is outdated as hell and needs another revamp.

    There is no solo que for competitive pvp and terrible matchmaking. And battlegrounds give horrible rewards or require insane amounts of grinding to get anything with the new honor ranking system.

    Imagine a system where you can que for 3's, select your role, and then wait in que for another 2 members with similar amount ranking.

    No one does bg's because the rewards are awful. And no one does ranked pvp because entry level is really annoying. It's a horrible dated system that has not changed FOR OVER 10 YEARS.
    There is a queue system for PvP (Random BGs, or Skirmish Arena). Why would you want to have that for competitive games as well? Wouldn't be really competitive anyways, if the randomly put-together groups meet premades (see Random BGs very very often).

    Random BGs are not done, not because of the rewards (the honor you get is actually quite large), but because many high-ranked PvPers use them as training grounds (seemingly). I haven't done many of them, but the majority of those i did so far were so completely outclassed by the opponent (seemed mostly pre-made) that it wasn't fun at all.

    Rated BGs can actually be quite fun. You don't need to be invited into the "LOLZOR 2.8k rating group" ones, as you would probably not be a big help there anyway. There are often enough groups for "Low CR" or "Fun RBG". Yes, you will the occasional group that will suck, but there are some really good ones, too.

    Again, I don't do much PvP, mostly PvE, but Legion is actually the first expansion where it did more than just the "You need to do this PVP stuff to get PvE rewards" things that I used to do.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socronoss View Post
    There is a queue system for PvP (Random BGs, or Skirmish Arena). Why would you want to have that for competitive games as well? Wouldn't be really competitive anyways, if the randomly put-together groups meet premades (see Random BGs very very often).

    Random BGs are not done, not because of the rewards (the honor you get is actually quite large), but because many high-ranked PvPers use them as training grounds (seemingly). I haven't done many of them, but the majority of those i did so far were so completely outclassed by the opponent (seemed mostly pre-made) that it wasn't fun at all.

    Rated BGs can actually be quite fun. You don't need to be invited into the "LOLZOR 2.8k rating group" ones, as you would probably not be a big help there anyway. There are often enough groups for "Low CR" or "Fun RBG". Yes, you will the occasional group that will suck, but there are some really good ones, too.

    Again, I don't do much PvP, mostly PvE, but Legion is actually the first expansion where it did more than just the "You need to do this PVP stuff to get PvE rewards" things that I used to do.

    So when I get grand master in overwatch going in solo que it doesn't count as competitive?!

    And yes I don't think you know much about pvp obviously. Also getting into rated battlegrounds can be quite tricky, especially with such small of people playing right now. And again the rewards for it are quite grindy. And if you actually talk in the forums you would know EVERYONE complains that the rewards for bgs are horrible. Actually the only pvp content creator on youtube recently said the reward system is killing the game right now.

    But maybe you're right nothing needs to change and the system is clearly not old and broken compared to every other mmo in the market or competitive lobby based games...

    Nah keeping it the same since BC has been working great for the game right?
    Last edited by mmoc2d9bdf7f11; 2017-09-27 at 01:05 PM.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by KronosIII View Post
    So when I get grand master in overwatch going in solo que it doesn't count as competitive?!

    And yes I don't think you know much about pvp obviously. Also getting into rated battlegrounds can be quite tricky, especially with such small of people playing right now. And again the rewards for it are quite grindy. And if you actually talk in the forums you would know EVERYONE complains that the rewards for bgs are horrible. Actually the only pvp content creator on youtube recently said the reward system is killing the game right now.

    But maybe you're right nothing needs to change and the system is clearly not old and broken compared to every other mmo in the market or competitive lobby based games...

    Nah keeping it the same since BC has been working great for the game right?
    Well, in forums actually EVERYBODY complains about everything. See here. I was just giving you another side to it: That I actually somewhat like it. What other rewards would you expect?
    Different Gear? Useless with PvP templates.
    Better Gear? That just need higher ranking, which I find OK (although I probably won't ever play at those ranks)

    I personally dislike criticism that is not constructive. In the sense of no alternatives provided. Everyone can say "I hate this and want it different", but taking the time to constructively think about how to make it better is what differentiates a whining child from an intelligent human being.

  13. #53
    Everything is terrible, do you not read the forums?

  14. #54
    Warchief Mekkle's Avatar
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    PvP has always been terrible in this pve focus'd game.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socronoss View Post

    I personally dislike criticism that is not constructive. In the sense of no alternatives provided. Everyone can say "I hate this and want it different", but taking the time to constructively think about how to make it better is what differentiates a whining child from an intelligent human being.
    I gave plenty of constructive criticism in my original post in how they can change for the better. In your regards you said everything is fine yet you barely pvp...

    How can it be fine if you yourself don't even pvp much? Because there is a problem that is why. If pvp was fun won't you be playing it? None of us are for a reason.

    There is less people currently doing pvp than there was people pvping in the low point of WOD. It's so bad the pvp lead has left and is currently awaiting a new lead. There is quite a problem and everything is not okay. I have pvp'd less in this expansion than any other in the past. My highest most likely in mist of Pandaria and Vanilla since I have a High Warlord on my mage and Knight Captain on my dwarf warrior.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Mekkle View Post
    PvP has always been terrible in this pve focus'd game.
    No.

    It has never been this bad.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by KronosIII View Post
    I gave plenty of constructive criticism in my original post in how they can change for the better. In your regards you said everything is fine yet you barely pvp...

    How can it be fine if you yourself don't even pvp much? Because there is a problem that is why. If pvp was fun won't you be playing it? None of us are for a reason.

    There is less people currently doing pvp than there was people pvping in the low point of WOD. It's so bad the pvp lead has left and is currently awaiting a new lead. There is quite a problem and everything is not okay. I have pvp'd less in this expansion than any other in the past. My highest most likely in mist of Pandaria and Vanilla since I have a High Warlord on my mage and Knight Captain on my dwarf warrior.
    Thank your for a good post finally.

    Trying to equate Legion PVP as being just as bad as previous expansions gives Blizz the green light to not try to improve. Legion PVP gearing system, rewards, prestige, honor talents, templates all are in bad shape.

  17. #57
    It is rather green light to discontinue pvp generally, as even with the cost cutting the've obtained following template implementation it doesn't look business sound to make so many changes as it needs to make pvp viable, for the existing player base.
    I believe we will not have a pvp head soon, as the only thing blizz does for pvp is changing fotm to have ppl switching in between and extend sub time, for a few colored items or one word change in title (like in 1492 with painted glass against gold ).
    And for fotm change you don't need pvp director position paid, you have reports on how specs behave against each other and decide upon a spec most played in the past to be easy for lots of players to un-dust it.

    Whoever had the strategy of making wow pvp like mobas was maybe blinded by blizz brand or deeply sunk in wow lore, thinking it can steal players from existing mobas. What happened is that they lost pvp dedicated players who were staying for the RPG aspect of the game, with some exceptions (dislike fanboy sticker).
    Without any good reasons for chasing objectives (gear was one, they may find other outside dyeing garments and baptizing titles) bgs are now gank fest and hk farm, which for me at least is a braindead, no fun gameplay.
    I’ve seen many advocating that arena is now the competitive part of pvp and balance is focused on it which I really doubt when 2 DH/2DH&random healer is R1 viable comp (template fail?). Not to mention that only with players enjoying arenas you cannot make a business case for keeping pvp alive. It needs masses.
    Last edited by Kryptoon; 2017-09-28 at 02:06 PM.

  18. #58
    Mechagnome Piesor's Avatar
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    The biggest problem in my eyes is that I don't really know what my chars are capable of anymore. In the open world you just kill people instantly by attacking them. In BGs everything changes drastically due to PvP templates and the PvP skiltree. Trinkets and legendaries are disabled. Additionally there is no new content and the rewards are far behind what you get in PvE.

    There is zero motivation for me to do any kind of PvP right now.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Piesor View Post
    The biggest problem in my eyes is that I don't really know what my chars are capable of anymore. In the open world you just kill people instantly by attacking them. In BGs everything changes drastically due to PvP templates and the PvP skiltree. Trinkets and legendaries are disabled. Additionally there is no new content and the rewards are far behind what you get in PvE.

    There is zero motivation for me to do any kind of PvP right now.
    It depends. If you are not playing rankeds, only casual bgs than you get LFR item level items.

    But if you play 2v2/3v3 and you are decent you get items equalor better than from hc/mythic tomb or mythic+10. Ofc pve is much much easier so people enjoy it more. Why should they try hard at 1700 if they can one shot heroic tomb and get AP faster?

    Pvp is bad because of class designs that are bad. Rated bracket are better than in wod but its still far from good. Pve still have some impact on pvp

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by slime View Post
    With the right legiondaries and gear you can 1v10 now in wpvp. I've seen it again and again in the Wpvp world quests. Some classes almost seem undamagable with the autobubbles and crazy movement. From the sounds of it OP, you are actually missing the time of your life in wpvp currently. GL getting the gear and catching up if you come back, better hope RNG is your friend.
    Mythic geared blood DKs popping bonestorm+vampiric blood.No one gets me below 18M HP even in a 10v1

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