Mythic Legion vs WOD raids

[Lanfear1]

Hello.

I quit after mythic BRF in WOD and wondered how hard legion mythic is in comparison.

Tried to google it without relevant hits.

[Wenoxar]

Highmaul - 4 days
Blackrock Foundry - 10 days
Hellfire Citadel - 16 days

Emerald Nightmare - 17 hours
Trial of Valor - 3 days
The Nighthold - 11 days
Tomb of Sargeras - 19 days

[dreamdaddy]

Mythic raiding in Legion is about on par with mythic raiding in WOD, outside of the last 2 bosses of Tomb of Sargeras, which were overly hard/untested at launch. For your average just-barely-getting-cutting-edge guild it's basically the same fight intensity.

[Temp name]

They're about as difficult, but as a personal note: Way, way less interesting to do. Instead of looking forward to raids I'm dreading them (Which is why I've cancelled my sub)

[Aggrophobic]

About the same but not as fun as the WoD ones.
WoD had its issues but raid design was not one of them, in my opinion.

BRF is one of my favorite raids of all time.

[KaPe]

ToS was probably one of the hardest raid they ever made. Sure, "days to clear" might not show that, but the final boss needed huge nerfs before he was killable - and was further nerfed after second guild managed to get him. It also had two brutally hard bosses in a row, a lot of punishing mechanics and heavily promoted class stacking.

On the other hand, the first raid in Legion was one of the easiest ones ever, with the "final" boss being much easier than most others. Then Blizzard decided to compensate with brutally difficult ToV, where several guilds had to "use creative mechanics" (and got temporary bans) to kill Helya. Nighthold was probably the closest thing to WoD raids. Fairly challenging, with large difficulty spikes, but nothing on the level of what we have now - plus the outliers got changed rather quickly and there was a patch that made the rest much easier through additional traits.

Overall though, it's a mixed bag. It's probably harder than it used to be, because gear is so random. Heroic split clears can give top guilds weeks worth of "mythic" gear, which in turn means that "slower" guilds won't have the same ilvl advantage they did in previous expansions. Also, couple bosses were buffed after first kills, because "creative mechanics" got removed and they had to be done "correctly" - which generally meant "harder". That didn't really happen in the past.

[dacoolist]

Wod had a TONNNN more clears than Legion Mythic has in terms of how many guilds have killed the end boss in each raid tier, BUT that could also mean that's because the game had more people.. idk if I know of a way to say what's actually harder or not - same as Classic Naxx with those old classic crappy classic abilities vs. todays world: Just hard to imagine.

[Argorwal]

Highmaul - 4 days
Blackrock Foundry - 10 days
Hellfire Citadel - 16 days

Emerald Nightmare - 17 hours
Trial of Valor - 3 days
The Nighthold - 11 days
Tomb of Sargeras - 19 days

I don't think this accurately represents much considering how hard helya was.

Also Method and Exorsus combines for ~1500 wipes on KJ alone, and then the first set of official nerfs were applied before even a #3. At that point Alpha was well past 1000 wipes and weren't even making it out of dark phase.

This flowing Avatar which had again about 900 wipes combined between #1 and #2.

[Varolyn]

Wod had a TONNNN more clears than Legion Mythic has in terms of how many guilds have killed the end boss in each raid tier, BUT that could also mean that's because the game had more people.. idk if I know of a way to say what's actually harder or not - same as Classic Naxx with those old classic crappy classic abilities vs. todays world: Just hard to imagine.

No idea what numbers you are looking at, because when you compare raids in similar timespans between the two expansions (so EN compared to HM, NH compared to BRF, and ToS compared to HFC), legion raids have had higher numbers of guilds killing Mythic bosses. Hell, before HFC released, not even 800 guilds killed M Blackhand, while over twice as many guilds killed Gul'dan before HFC came out. Even M KJ kills are very similar to M archimonde kills in a similar timespan.

[Sylvaeres]

About the same but not as fun as the WoD ones.
WoD had its issues but raid design was not one of them, in my opinion.

BRF is one of my favorite raids of all time.

I agree with this. I feel like BRF was the pinnacle of what a raid should be

[Khain]

BRF was awesome, Nighthold was a good raid too. Now ToS the two last bosses are so hard that is boring.

[Thwunder]

In terms of pure Boss design I would say I enjoyed the diversity of bosses in WoD more than Legion. While the grinding aspect of Legion might influence my opinion on farming raid content, I never really look forward to a ToS,NH boss other than the final one but in WoD I had some favorites just because of what could go wrong *evil laugh* on bosses like Zakuun, Iskar, Hans/Frans, Thogar. Again, this preference may just be from the differences in the expansions but the bosses in WoD just seemed more enjoyable.

[Salty Maud]

Boss mechanics are pretty similar in complexity but more punishing. It's not necessarily any more difficult to deal with mechanics correctly, but when you fail it's often a instant wipe.

[epLe]

idk if I know of a way to say what's actually harder or not - same as Classic Naxx with those old classic crappy classic abilities vs. todays world: Just hard to imagine.

23 guilds were able to kill KT during Vanilla. That was during a period of 5.5 months.
100+ guilds have killed M KJ in about half that timeframe now, so getting to kill him should be approx 8 times "easier" by theorycrafting..

Also remember that you had less loot, no bonus rolls, ilvl procs, nor any other means (AP/legs) to lurk in some extra gearing beside the raiding.
So even without all the mechanics, just the gearing process alone, made raiding significantly more difficult.

[Dangg]

23 guilds were able to kill KT during Vanilla. .

No, just no. Where does this bullshit myth come from?

http://web.archive.org/web/200611112...396d2dcf9b99d8

[eschatological]

My general feeling is that the difficulty is on par, but the spacing of the raids is tighter, so those mid-level Mythic raiding guilds are burning out a bit quicker because there's no down time between tiers for them. Consider that in a little over a year we'll have four distinct raid "tiers" (even though EN/ToV had no tier gear): EN/ToV, NH, ToS, and ToA. In WoD, there were 3, and that was a whole expansion that lasted two years. The distinct criticism was that was too little, but they've gone to the other extreme this expansion. Plus, if we anticipate a new expansion announced in November with a potential spring release, that'd be a quicker turnaround on an expansion as well.

I know, as a GM and a raid leader, we've had far higher burnout this expansion because of the raid pacing in combination with all the grinding outside of raid necessary this expansion. We're working on M-Avatar now and at the pace we're going, M-KJ might die a couple weeks before Antorus, and there was a couple weeks before ToS before the glut of guilds killed Gul'dan as well in May.

[Deleted]

Difficulty is a hard thing to talk about in WoW. Mechanics in raids aren't that difficult. If you think playing WoW is hard I feel sorry for you.

In terms of how long it takes to kill a boss Legion wins out. But really it only wins out because the bosses ended up being super overturned. Blizzard have also lost any ability to create fun, mechanically indepth bosses. The only way they can make a boss hard to kill is by putting in super unforgiving mechanics and making the fight 15 minutes long.

[Deleted]

Difficulty is a hard thing to talk about in WoW. Mechanics in raids aren't that difficult. If you think playing WoW is hard I feel sorry for you.

In terms of how long it takes to kill a boss Legion wins out. But really it only wins out because the bosses ended up being super overturned. Blizzard have also lost any ability to create fun, mechanically indepth bosses. The only way they can make a boss hard to kill is by putting in super unforgiving mechanics and making the fight 15 minutes long.

Game is not hard.
The hardest is the coordination between players.

[omeomorfismo]

No, just no. Where does this bullshit myth come from?

http://web.archive.org/web/200611112...396d2dcf9b99d8

why you linked a page dated 8 feb? when tbc was released 15 jan.

[Fayenoor]

Does anyone remember how many C'thun kills were there before Naxx dropped?